to bridge the gap with his neighbors. it seems unfair to change the rules midstream. >> let me add, the issue about occupancy. occupancy recommended by the fire department says 49 people can be there at one time. i am having an average of 50 transactions an hour. most of the people by the food not to sit there. the seating is 18. the occupancy as 49. you should have to take a picture of 50 people outside the restaurant. >> is the time up? >> you have a few seconds.

>> you do not need to justify why you want to stay open. i am curious as to what is it about your business plan that requires you to remain open past 2:00? >> we have been open since 1988. low-price crude available to the neighborhood. -- food available to the neighborhood. >> is the success of your business and reliant on 2:00 and four o'clock? >> right now we have a broken shift, somebody working 10:00 to 2:00 and not enough hours to give them to accommodate the shipped. -- the shift.

>> is out what the logic was? -- that what the logic was? >> somehow it came up like that. i just do not know where it came to. >> the numbers do not work if you have 38 our ships. somebody is not working an eight hour shift -- 3 8 hour shifts. somebody is not working and eight hour shift. -- an eight hour shift. >> i work for 600 franchisees. the fast food business is competitive.

the margin is small. approximately 8%. these hours are important because of the clientele, the young folks coming from the movie house. the guy who is hungry. >> i do not know any movie houses that close at 2:00. maybe when they are showing "rocky horro." r." >> you mentioned you need that to stay open and be viable but there are only 50 people. on friday and saturday, d you have those numbers? >> 50 transactions per hour. >> that is every day? is the weekend fire. >> less on week days.

>> and you operate other locations that have 24-hour? >> yes. commissioner hillis: to those other locations do as well? or is this a better location? >> other locations do better than this location. >> i need a little bit of help on the chronology. when did you purchase this franchise? april 2008. >> rid when you bought this business, you were operating the assumption that he would continue to operate on a 24-hour basis. >> that is correct.

>> most of the calls were before the security guard. once we have a security guard, the calls dropped dramatically. >> you can sit down. >> i wanted to underscore the language in the police " relative to the instructions to the entertainment condition that you should in shoe upper met unless it reaches the threshold -- unless it reaches the threshold. i wanted to point out that there is a long list of conditions that go to some of the complaints the neighbors have brought to your attention.

those include taking out the trash, lighting, a toilet facilities, the outdoor seating area is to be closed at midnight. that was not the case before. i think that may impact noise as well. there is a list of conditions, some of which came from the police department. many of which came from supervisor mar and to the community as well. the commission took all of those things into consideration. i am here for questions. >> how many late night food permits are there? >> we manage about 120 extended our permits. 80% our food. the balance of those are the things like entertainment-

related, 24 hours. >> how many fast food? >> san francisco does not have too many. i do not have an exact number. does the subway count? 25, 30? it comes and goes. there are not that many of them. >> if we were to uphold, when would you review it without any plea from us? what would be your level of review? >> we are not reviewing them all that time, based on complaints or a request from the police department.

>> let me approach it this way, there seems to be a disconnect between the number of people opposed to this and statements by the police department as the number of complaints. i know the police will say every call mike represent five or 10 calls. something will give greater scrutiny. but, given the number of people who have a problem with this, would you have in place some period of review where you will conditionally grant the permit and six months from now, with these procedures in place, we will see if the neighbors are as dissatisfied as they currently are. >> at the moment is no, there is nothing in place.

nothing voiced in such a way to codify the permit for a review. we do that in many instances but that was not part of the discussion in this case. >> i am sure that this is not -- four hundred people, but does not determine if what happens is reasonable. given the level of discontent with the operations of this place, it seems odd that there would not have been some concession to the neighbors when you granted the permit. three months from now, six months, we will review. >> there was a tremendous amount of concession to the neighbors as well as a number of security guards relative to the capacity of this location. i do not recall there was a

condition of the permanent or a discussion like you are describing. we're capable of doing that. we would be happy to do that if the board saw fit to direct us that way. >> could you say the permit is going to expire in a year? >> no. these permits, by law, our issue once and renewed via the tax collectors license. they do not expire by their own nature. >> could you put that on the permit? >> i do not think that is legal. i am not a lawyer but i do not think these are permits the can

expire. i would have to ask the city attorney. i do not believe we could do that. scrutiny is a very common thing. >> then you have to terminate the permit. >> we would not to terminate it or revoke it. we could bring a applicant back to the commission. we do that a lot. >> there is another business that had been causing serious issues with the neighborhood.

the police department brought that to the commission's notice. they called the business honor last night and they did recondition a permit. that is how it worked. >> that is my concern, whether these conditions work or not. i am a fan of late night food in this city. there is a lot of conditions which are hard to enforce. he may not have the capacity to enforce it. it is the problem is this size of this facility. certainly there is a lot of late-night activity that happens in both those areas. i do not know if we see the problems. >> we're starting to see more

and this neighborhood is engaging in scrutiny on a lot of businesses. it began its -- as i begin my original seven minutes. there is a larger context to this activity. by the police department as well, more scrutiny on the businesses. the example is another example where more eyeballs are being placed on businesses open at night to find out where this larger environmental issues that we're hearing about are coming from. it is challenging for everybody. i will mention we do have the capacity to enforce these conditions. they are things we can go out and look at and we can see. yes you are, know you're not. we issue citations. they have costs associated with them that can go up from $100 to $800 and we can do -- i do

that regularly. i can suspend based on not complying with conditions in a short period of time and i do them. i am not afraid to suspend these permits for not complying with these conditions because these permits are important to us and we take this process very seriously. president goh: thank you. >> i have another question for the planning department. somebody made a statement during the presentation, the other so- called fast food facilities close around 11:00 p.m. most of those are cu's, aren't

they? >> the property which what -- does require a conditional use. hours of operations are subject to know the limitations in the zoning district. >> i am talking in general. fast food facilities are a cu in general. >> the use itself would be. once they use is established, the hours of operation would not necessarily condition -- trigger a conditional use. >> is that the same in cu2? >> this would be permitted because there are no hours in operation. >> week have conditional use for the hours of operation. >> thank you. just seeing if you are awake. [laughter]

>> the matter is submitted. >> i will start. one of the things we wind up is there is a certain pattern that develops in light of certain types of cases. one of those is -- deals with nuisances. i have consistently felt facilities that have a potential nuisance or have created an nuisance need to deal with those on site. in its entirety. we have a situation where and i do not think anyone doubts there

was some level of nuisance. whether one believes volumeless study and i did not track those calls in assigning them. versus was presented tonight in terms of the specific run related to that address and that block. there is a wide discrepancy. nobody can dispute there have been instances of a nuisance. but it had not been addressed until this particular situation came up and there was a requirement the permit be reestablished based upon some type of either mr. medication or some error on the part of the permit holder.

one could say and look at the mitigation is as proposed as a way of continuing the permit. i am not sure i will buy that. the question is whether the permit holder is entitled for his business to have a permit that has had problems in the past. this will allow him to do it and hopefully it works if it is allowed. i am not sure i would buy that. i would say perhaps he needs to conduct his business and create a situation where there are no nuisances and come back and get for their entitlements. i would not support -- i would support the overturning of the permit.

>> i should know this. there are different types of people in a bar at the 2:00 than 11 or 12. some bars do not have doors. in new orleans. i do not want to let it go as it is. it is almost like there would be a syllogism that you could construct and it seems as though it has been conceded by the requirement there be security guards that it is problematic, and no. 4 talks about whether or not a security plan has been put in place that deals with that adequately.

not to miss " her -- misquote her, or mitigate against being loaded or drunk, and it is a little of both. it helps oxidize alcohol. you should drink -- should not drink so much they get drunk. ms. kane talked about the fact this level of review for the entertainment commission would be to go back and see if the conditions that are placed upon a permit, the operation of that permit are being properly adhered to. that is like to not watch the lights when you cross the street to watch the cars. we'll have to watch is whether

or not, that they have the security guards, that is important. but whether or not the security guards are preventing the problems and told people have signed petitions against. it does not seem there's anything in place that deals with that such that even if they have security guards, and the problem persists, they should lose that license, they should those that permit to operate between 2 and 4 and it seems some question should have been asked. this has to do with of right and we say this is all right to operate this business. could the model, the business model taken up enough of the slack from 4 to 6 as being lost, it cannot open from 2 to 4 to mitigate the problems for the neighbors? we hate to see any businessman

is any money. i am learning toward sunset ting. i might not have the votes for any of this. if we allow those conditions to be in place and the problem is attenuated, perhaps we would go another six months. we will see if that works. i look forward to hearing from my fellow commissioners. >> i would agree. the conditions that are put on here recognize there is no problem and their owners but i

do not know if they solve the problem that exists that we're recognizing. i like the idea of. if there is a mechanism that will let us reevaluate. the facility itself cannot and a security guard will not help the neighbors down the street with the problem. it is. i am skeptical that it is. i would like to see that, we can do after a certain amount of time. i support late-night food but i think they're not all equal. there is going to be problems with every one of them. there are people out in late hours which is good. there seems to be a recognition of a problem.

>> i appreciate the testimony that was brought of the people in the neighborhood. that was compelling to hear and i appreciate the work of the entertainment commission and the statistics to give us. i thought that was informative. every time i heard someone talk about the problems you are facing, i would have a problem with an establishment having patrons overflow and urinating in -- on my stoop and what not. at the same time with the entertainment commission did here is take into consideration all the concerns and i do agree whether or not these conditions are going to mitigate, the potential for problems is yet to be seen.

you put in a good effort in putting something together that could worked. maybe it will not. i like the idea of a sunset or established check-in. after six months. if this is -- this is a serious problem you need to have an opportunity built into addressing it and quickly. i would move in that direction as well. >> i would agree with what has been said about testing these conditions. both flagellum and applying for the permit as well as the entertainment commission as well as supervisor mar have put in a great deal of effort into addressing the neighbors' concerns and we live in this wonderful city but there are lot of us. -- a lot of us who live here.

we are tightly squeezed together and we have to figure out ways to live peacefully as neighbors, side-by-side. i think we need to reach some sort of compromise that addresses the concerns and i would support some sort of testing period for this permit. >> we cannot conditions permit. we can condition a lot that come before us but we're not able to conditions permit. is that correct? >> you can modify the hours. you can change with the hours are. that is in your discretion, but you cannot have it sunset after a certain number of months. >> is there some way we can retain jurisdiction? >> it is suspended with funders, the board's jurisdiction. >> we cannot say we continue it and it gets too -- he gets to

operate with that. >> the affected individuals would have to vigilantly monitor and work with the entertainment commission to get the enforcement and police out there. >> they do not have any mechanisms in place other than to find them if they have not complied with their requirements. the best this board could do is to uphold and plead with the entertainment commission to monitor this and suspended necessary? that is the best we could do which is not satisfying the neighbors but the neighbors will have the job of reasonably -- calling when there is a reasonable problem. >> could she say the commission will hold a public hearing on the six months from today to

reevaluate these conditions? it is a public hearing at the entertainment commission. can they voluntarily conditions permit at this point? >> the permit is under the board of jurisdiction so it is up to this body to act on it. they can volunteer to hold a hearing of that nature. i do not think you can be part of the board decision. >> we will give -- >> ms. kane, you asked a question. >> we would be willing to and if it comes in the form of an order or whatever it is that comes from this body to us, we agreed to hold a hearing six months from now, absolutely. i will say yes to that. i did not know what the

allowances are for the board in terms of four conditions on the permit, is this an up or down kind of thing. to the extent we can accommodate, it seems like the feeling of the board is we would be happy to do that. >> i tried to give suggestions to bodies when appropriate and it is appreciated. i do not know if ms. kane acan commit. i do not think she can. what this commission can do is table for two weeks and direct the entertainment commission, my parties, and the property owner to engage in settlement negotiations and see if we can settle this among ourselves and come up with appropriate conditions and report back to you and you can take a vote. >>