and came back with a modified time, and i agreed with that. that was the time that was published in the noi and we went forward with it. but i had originally asked for 24 hours. in retrospect, we will probably not use all those hours, only because it is completely dead in the area. from that standpoint, the hours are not set in stone, but we did request 24 hours. and the police department on the 20th, prior to the noi, came back with the modified time. the dpw person talked to me about it and i agreed to modify my time, and we went forward. commissioner fung: the last question is, you indicated you

had a considerable amount of expenditures for this. did you purchase the court already -- the cart already before you got the final permits? >> i had to. that is why i was trying to get a hold of somebody at dpw to make sure i was not going to make a mistake in that, in purchasing the cart, the card itself is very expensive, especially with the rights are rights of the health department. the health department would not allow me to get the health permit without seeing the car. even though i went to the health department initially with a layout of the cart and all of the dynamics before purchasing, the health department said they had to see it before they could issue the permit. i called dpw and told them that this is what i needed to do and if there was any problem, anything in the way, tell me now.

they said to continue, and i did. and they gave me the permit. president garcia: since the question had to do with cost, what are the non-recoverable costs. let's say, you were given a permit some routes, are there any -- somewhere else, are there any non-recoverable costs that you are aware of? >> yes, sir. president garcia: you can just tell me there are and -- i don't need exact figures. >> yes, there are. i had to partner with a business that is currently operating a food-service business. i had to purchase inventory. president garcia: i'm not being argumentative. if he were to set up somewhere else, the inventory would still be salable. i get a better way to ask the question is, if you had to move, are you paying for the site that

you are currently seeking, and you would have to go through a process where you would have additional new costs? >> yes, sir. i would have to start all over going back three the permit process, going back through the expense of the noi, getting the addresses, which themselves cost $3,000, having to mail them out, which is another four hundred dollars. and it goes up from there. president garcia: since i have you, i will keep asking my questions. i hope i will be forgiven for that. what else is in your cart beside coffee and tea? >> we serve coffee and tea, and we have some sweets that are available. i think it is otis spunk minor. president garcia: some pastries. cracks not really pastries -- >> not really pastries.

they're just -- i think it is two muffins. we only have them more for just looks, because we are not really selling the muffins. that is why we have eight more the instant. we're just taking them out and putting them there. that is if somebody wants coffee, they can also get a muffin. president garcia: this will be my last question. do you happen to know the with of the sidewalk where you want to set up? >> yes. president garcia: what is it from curb to wall? cracks this location is within the wicked -- >> this location is within the with the of the ordinance. and my car is also within the width on the sidewalk. that was determined at a time with the dpw staff. -- i had of time with the dpw

staff. in my notes i do have the coffee cart. president garcia: the idea is that you are within compliance. >> oh, yes. i am within the permitted -- in- line president garcia: required pedestrian space on the sidewalk. >> yes, i am, sir. >> i just have a question. you served tea and coffee? >> yes. >> what percentage of sales to the beans and boxes account for? >> they represent about 90%. >> can you tell us why did you

choose these locations to operate? >> i was at the last processes of the permit when it was at the police department, and i paid for everything, and i was told i had to wait. my coffee appeals to tourists. the reason is the quality. it is similar to blue mountain, it is part of what would appeal and what is unique and what is not like food, so all of those

came into consideration, so looking at seven different locations, it was determined between dpw and i this would be the best location to encompass everything. >> did you do any out reached discussions with fishermans wharf? >> in retrospect, after i took a look at the people who appeal my permit, out of the nine people, only one was a restaurant. i was not expecting that, and i

did do out reach. the reason we left this week is because we wanted to partner with other businesses in the area and showcase what they hadn't, because our product is not that quality. we have spoken to several businesses to be a tourist director. you should go here, or youvo d this. >> would you operate both of these facilities independently, or would you moved from one to the other? >> they are completely independent. >> when you currently operate, do you use the carts to operate anywhere else? >> they are for these locations.

>> you do not need to have a special permit to allow you to use someone's after within a certain radius? >> yes, i do, and i did receive the bathroom permits. >> if there are no other commissioner questions at this time, we can hear from the department your good -- from the department. >> thank you. >> the location that is under appeal is 27 01 taylor street. the department received a permit to operate from 12:00 a.m.

until 3:00 a.m. on various days and from 6:00 a.m. until 12:00 a.m. at the same time, so it appears based upon their request it wasn't till 3:05 every day. we are required to inform the police department of this request. they did respond back in the affirmative. at that time we received multiple objections. the department established a hearing on october 19, 2011 to your the objections relating to this permanent based upon the testimony from merchants and from the applicant. it was determined there were many situations where similar

foods like coffees and pastries were being served. therefore, the department denied this permits based on the concept of light foods in the immediate vicinity. there were some suggestions that the department directed the applicant to take certain action. our process has always been to process the request and not necessarily to establish a business plan for a merchant, which seems to be suggested here. listening to the appellant, it appears she was unable to collect whesufficient informatin in the health care permits. the law is very specific as it

relates to this. once the department of public works has gotten through this process and there is no issues as it relates to food or other facilities, the department will wait for approval. the applicant has 90 days to work with the health department. the city's business tax group would require a certificate. the department would then finalize of permits. this was to provide an opportunity for an applicant to secure a location prior to the purchase of any equipment that would be needed to run their business. i have been informed by staff suspect there remains outstanding fees that have yet to be paid -- by staff that

there remains outstanding fees and have to be paid. we will collect one half of the total amount of fraud. we will collect the rest of the fees at the conclusion of the decision. good further, that the applicant was required to provide cost. there are current back fees associated with this. we will continue to work on these, but at this point the applicant has not paid those. from a prospect perspective, we did provide notification. we did hear objections. based upon notification provided, they do serve coffees and sweets. we believe they took the appropriate action on this

permits. goowaxman you do not have all te requirements in the language that would apply to it -- >> you do not have all the requirements and the language that would apply to this, of the appellants talked-about ethnicity. was that taken into consideration. it is stated there is a pastry shop set nacelles pastries. it was the fact that her coffee is unique. give was not taken into consideration we did was that taken into consideration? >> she believes the type of coffee is unique, but based upon the review, from a layman's perspective, it is coffee pure good as there are other people who also served coffee and -- it

is coffee. there are other people who also serves coffee. >> even though there is an ethnicity clause? >> in this specific case, the coffee tyre, and if the coffee beans were from africa or a mixture of beans, the type of coffee would be similar in terms of ethnicity. we do not know the composition of the coffee that is being made by the neighborhood merchants. >> it would seem that it would go towards something similar. a new bill could be italian or chinese, and i do not think in most people's minds they would call about similar food, at least i would not consider it to

be. >> hamburgers is a light food, so if someone is selling a hamburger for $2 versus a restaurant that maybe two doors away that is serving a hamburger made of kobe beef, it is still determined it is like food and would not be allowed. >> the last thing is more of a comment. it seems like since the city is trying to promote this, and the issue is whether or not it is a good location, it seems pretty onerous as the cart need to be built prior to any approval when we are in the process of looking at plans, and it still was not as it should be, but we could require them to change it, but it seems that is an onerous requirement, given that the idea

is to help people with limited funds. that is not in the thing that needs to be responded to verses and unsolicited comment. >> in this area has a lot of street vendors? >> that is correct. >> the specific location, it is it near the corner? >> it is approximately 20 feet away. >> are there other elements? >> there are other vendors in the immediate area. >> going back to the earlier question, what is the width of the sidewalk? >> approximately 12 to 15 feet.

there is sufficient wit to be placed with a six-foot pasth. >> i have a question. good when the department in the review of the other protesting objections, was there any finding that the objecting establishments were selling beans and 30 bags or boxes? i heard testimony that 90% of the sales were the beans, rather than coffee. >> there lies the challenge. the mobile food facility is supposed to sell edible food that is supposed to be consumed when it is purchased. have we known that the applicant

was selling beans, specifically on ground and not coffee and tea bags specifically and not setea, it would not fall under e auspices of a mobile system. it would be part of the police department. it was our impression when it was submitted this was for coffee and tea. >> what about a hybrid situation where you have the crude substances as well as -- brewed substances as well as the goods for sale? >> it appears that the members of the board of supervisors intention was to provide edible food and a gourmet experience for the public, instead of selling specific products they would then take home to you

separately. -- to use separately. >> does dpw consider sidewalk ingestion? i know they may meet the code requirements, but they are extremely congested with pedestrians and tourists. that is something opponents brought up in their letters. is that something you consider when you look at approval of the permit? >> if there was a question to the department of public works would engage with the mta to determine whether it is sufficient your yard -- is sufficient. we will take whatever the

recommendation and to move accordingly. enemawe received notification sg that during ballgames decide what needs to be unobstructed, so in those cases we have actually gone back for merchants in the immediate area, so we do coordinate on these types of situations. >> do they weigh in on this permits? >> no, they do not. >> no other questions? >> thank you. we will take public comment. is there any public comment on this item? >> how many people intend to speak? i think two minutes ought to do it. we were worried about the last

item. if you could get done in two minutes, please do. >> whoever wants to speak, please step forward. >> i just think the analysis, i thing when dpw is analyzing the issue of life foods, -- light foods, they are ignoring that the coffee cart would not compete with a full-service diner just because they serve coffee as well. they see light foods, and that is it. they label it and disapprove it. i do not know.

i do not see it being implemented, and that is in the order, so i just want to bring that to light. >> thank you, sir. >> if you would fill out a speaker cards, that would be helpful to us. thank you. next speaker. if you have an extra pen, maybe you could put that out. >> good evening, commissioners. i am the executive director of the community benefit district, and i am here to make you aware that our community benefit district, which is made up of property owners are very much opposed to a permit for this business. there are 18 businesses within

one block, and the request of location is in front of a burger king, and i also wanted to mention there are not any public restrooms and within 200 feet fo. fisherman's wharf already has 100 restaurants, cafes, and food vendors, many of which are small businesses paying significant rent in very challenging economic times. we are also concerned about a food truck operating until the late evening hours until 3:00 a.m., which will add additional noise and safety issues and we constantly struggle with.

and >> the you know how many mobile food vendors there are and how many non-food vendors there are? >> my understanding is there are just two, and they are on private property. we do not have any mobile food trucks on public property. >> do you know how many sidewalk vendors? >> i do not know that. >> what are you referring to in the nearby businesses? >> coffee, tea, pastries, and suites. >> and crude coffee -- brewed coffee? >> yes. >> next speaker.

i am donald, and we manage the property, and immediate adjacent is the burger king. the restaurant, one of our tenants was to be here this evening, but he happens to be ill and could not make it. the restaurant is within 20 feet of where this is supposed to go. good the restaurant has a permit for tables and chairs, which leaves very little room for passageway, and is a congested area. there is a coffee cart strictly for the tenants of those

buildings, and parents those of big business of people coming in and taking out food, so a direct competition with his tenants. he has been there for 10 years or so, so we strongly agree with the denial of the permit and feel it should be sustained. thank you. >> thank you. if you would not filling one out, we would appreciate it. is there any public comment? seeing none, we will move to rebuttal. fax i am going to quickly address some of the issues that came on top, and then i am going to talk about the video. i do have a video of derrin cafe and the person who works there,

and they do not sell tee boxes. they do not provide that at all. as well as the other merchants, they all sell brewed coffee or through tea. -- or brewed tea. in terms of our coffee been available, our patrons can open their bag and have a cup right there at the stand, so they are able to buy the bag, and we do have the bag open and make their coffee as well if they would prefer to have one of the other 15 choices and we offer. as far as the ingestion, there is no congestion. on the opposite side, and there are tour buses.

there is a long building that does not have any opening doors, and there is a role of door, and there is a burger king. i went into burger king, and they do not sell the bags. this is my first time using this. >> coffee bean? i wish we did, but we do not. >> basically, it goes on and on and which every vendor they have mentioned as well ask us burger king, and i just wanted