before i ask my questions? why could a new means of exit not be created, a new door cut out? the stated this is the west side of the building. >> it is. president garcia: why could they not find another perimeter wall where they could cut a door? >> that is possible, but the building is historic. all the changes would have to go through preservation review. the face of the building on the south is mostly garage space. it would be removing some of the spaces for an exit door. on the east face, toward hyde, that is quite a frontage. the rooms that could be there are bedrooms and such. you would not want a bedroom door to the outside. president garcia: he said the east side is a garage door.

that is a means of egress. >> not buy the building code. that is not permitted. if there were a swinging door adjacent to it -- you could go to the garage, but you still need a swinging door. president garcia: you talk about the flue. that could be -- that could not be removed because it is serving -- >> the furnace and hot water heaters. president garcia: very difficult. but could it be rerouted? >> i believe so. president garcia: that is not of itself prohibitive? >> we could move it. president garcia: i am not sure i understand with your point about the reason for the wall is within 10 feet of a new staircase being built at the permit holder's property, and if that staircase would be moved in some direction -- what would the distance be that would have to be moved to obviate the need for this wall?

>> about 3 feet. it would line up with the rest of the stair. this particular portion only serves the deck to the third floor. the stair in their design moves to the west, in line with a spot that would not affect the windows of 2323. i am not sure why the stair takes the job. i am hoping to find out from the architect. president garcia: for the wall to be built, that would obviously cover the door you indicated at the window or ground floor level. but i am not clear on why you would be required to shut off windows that do not have a wall in front of them, even though they are lot line windows. which requirement would that be? >> i agree with you completely. i see no reason to close the windows above the height of that wall. i do not know why it dais -- why that is stipulated on the plans

either. commissioner fung: i am sorry. go ahead. you indicated there were 2 the vote openings, but when i look at the window,-- were two openings, but when i look at the window, i see there. >> i was not able to get copies of dbi's files. commissioner fung: i am talking about the brief. we do not have these drawings. >> the store is the exit door. this is a utility window. this is the mechanical room. commissioner fung: the floor plan shows -- the plan. it shows three -- >> i am not certain. there is a lot of confusion in

this process because of the difference between what is shown in the plans for the variance application and for the building permit. perhaps the permit holder's council can clarify what the confusion is on that. what we are told is that this door is a critical emergency exit, and this is a window. apologies for the confusion. commissioner hillis: do you have a ground floor plan of both or either of these buildings? it is hard to understand where these doors are. it could apply to the ground floor plan to see if there are garage door exits. >> i have the ground floor plan here. show it on the overhead. commissioner hillis: that is

your client? >> 2323 hyde. commissioner hillis: your client. >> this is the exit door in question that might be closed. these are the garages, these are the garages. it covers the entire front door of lombard. commissioner hillis: and how many is that? >> i believe there are three. seeing the spaces today, i would suggest that four could fit in there. whether they use it that way or not, i do not know. and the main entrance of the building is here. you come off of hyde, enter into a corridor, and there are a pair of stairs. one astaire comes out and discharges through the front

door and the other discharges through the exit door. >> where does that or go to? >> once you leave that door, you walk into the neighboring property. you walk under 1100 lombard to lombard st. commissioner hillis: you walk along the garage to a servants -- to a service entrance. >> there was construction today when we were there. but yes, it is adjacent to the garage but under the three units that are above it. >> thank you. good evening, president garcia and members of the board. i am jim ruben. this is a pretty straightforward

and simple permit. let me show you. in the ground level of the neighboring property, not the property we own, this area -- commissioner hillis: could you pull that a little so we? >> yes. this area is the area that they claim prescriptive right on. that is our property in. the lot line goes to hear. they filed a lawsuit on february 2 and have not pursued the lawsuit and had not saw any court jurisdiction and they are not going to win when they do that. the door that they are talking about goes into our property. and they are claiming that they go all the way out here. i am going to try to answer some of the questions that i heard posed. there are three openings that they claim in their brief.

they are going to be covered, which is correct. there are 48 windows in total on that property. some of them are fantastic windows on the north. the three openings that are going to be impacted our a window here, which is a stairwell window that heads from the living area, which starts one floor above this and comes down the stairway. this is the stair you would take to get to the garage when you want to get your car or go up to the living area and. this door, which we have already described, and this, which is a window in a mechanical room. i have a mechanical room in my house where the boiler is and it is an interior room. you turn on the light and nobody is ever in there. i think there was a claim that it was a habitable area. that is it. that is the impact on the windows.

the door is in the garage. this entire frontage is open to the street. you go out this way or you can come anywhere here. i find it hard to believe i am not a fire expert, but i find it hard to believe that you could not put a door somewhere along here. there is also an exit out of the rear of the house into the yard in the back. that is the full brunt of what it is we are trying to do. commissioner hillis: and there is building above the area outside of that door? when you go out that door -- >> there will be. the fire wall -- a fire wall he is not sure he wants us to build, it will be an expansion of the building coming in that

direction. this is the first phase of the work we are going to be doing. commissioner hillis: what do those lines represent in that area? not the lines you drew, but the lines that were already there. >> there is a building above that. this is our building and there is a passage under there. commissioner fung: can i interrupt you for a second? >> of course. commissioner fung: for your plans, there is another opening. >> where are we talking about? commissioner fung: if you go directly up from the right yellow mark, is that door getting covered? >> that door is getting covered. they have not complained about it. commissioner fung: so there are

four openings. >> there are three that they have complained about, but that is correct. commissioner hillis: where does that or go to? >> our property, the backyard of our property. commissioner fung: sorry to interrupt. >> is ok. i am not sure what else you need to know. it is a permit that has been issued, reviewed by planning and was signed off on by a bullet -- by building, fire. it is the first phase of a project that will expand the building at 1100 lombard street and we would like to get started. i was going to say something about the flute.

-- the flue. it does need to be vented. right now, it is a round flue. i will make the representation to you that there are many other ways to flue, to exhaust, that do not take the kind of dimension that the round flue does. we just got on the internet and took a look at some. we would be happy to work with them and figure out a way to get a flue that exhausts their needs for their boiler. president garcia: are there some future plans for your client that will put the windows that there are concerned about above where your walls will be built? will those be in danger where they have to be --

>> if you want to give me a moment, i can show you what the plan is. president garcia: i think you were being offered some drawing. >> i have my own that are marked up so i know what i will be looking at. so in 2000, there were a set of plans submitted for 2323. the project sponsor is a client of mine who sold it to their client. i have these plans. the work was done in 2003. their clients all the house, bought it lock, stock, and barrow, including the furniture. this is a set of plans that will take you up for the floors. here is the ground plan showing

both properties. here is the area in question that we are talking about. there is a sheet of the first floor that you just saw where we saw -- where you saw the impact of the window and the stair, the window in the mechanical room, and the door that goes out to our property. and the other door that commissioner fong referred to. -- fung referred to. this is level two. eventually, this window, which is in a stairwell, will not be impacted. everything in this direction will remain. we are not touching those windows. they may have some fire issues

and we will have to talk about protection, but we do not need to cover those windows. this is the third level. you can see that there is an office. there is a window here that opens into the entry area of the office and we are going to need to impact that window. there are two windows in the main area of the office. i have not been inside the property. i am accepting that the property is the way it is listed. in the main area, i assume there is a desk or a work area. we are not touching those windows. president garcia: nor will anyone know be affected to the left or right? >> that is correct. on this level, garrett, held me

a little bit here. those windows will be impacted? right. there were some windows in the plan in 2003 that did not get built and those windows are not there. in effect, there will be no impact on level four, meaning this window will say and that window will stay. i think that does it. frankly, we view what we are planning even in the future as somewhat minimal and something we could work with them on. commissioner hillis: what is the scope of this term it? is this it? >> the scope of the permit that is before you is just the fire wall that gets us started and sets the eastern most wall of the expansion that is going to come to be. commissioner hillis: why not

submit the permit in its entirety? why do it like this? >> to get started. commissioner fung: how does the 10 feet relate to your building in terms of the fire code? >> the answer is i do not know. i would have to sit down with jeff maddox and asked him to tell me like a 4-year-old. it is a fire code issue. i am not sure. >> mr. sanchez, mr. duffy, you are up. >> i thought there were going to do a duet. commissioner hillis: you never know. >> there we go.

mr. boscovich, i do not know. i will talk to him tomorrow. i let him away early. i was a little bit confused when i saw the brief in regards to the property line. there is a complaint that it complied with the dbi about 2323 hyde st. about these windows and the legality of them. i went to look at the complaint and tried to get myself appointed for today. there is something going on with regards to this easement and the area because the property line is not really shown on the plans. i believe that has gone through some sort of core process at this time.

it is the first phase of the work. i do not know whether the building code would require this wall in this location. because this is the first part of the permit. i do not see the rest of the permit. there is not enough information for me to say that. if anyone has any questions, -- president garcia: why was a permit issued for a wall? >> you can apply for a permit like that if you want to spread it out. if you want to build a wall, you can build a wall. it is up to your neighborhood if they do not like that. that is why we are here, i guess. they can do it like that if they want. it is unusual but there is nothing to stop them from doing it. i am concerned about the flue. on this permit, the existing flue is going to be relocated to an adjusted -- to an existing

property by an adjacent property owner. the adjacent property owner says, i will do it next year. where do we stand then that's how we work that out? that is an issue and it is something the building to arm its troubles with. it is a big flue. there are also a couple of outlets -- there are some sort of ants that were on that wall. there are some relocations on hyde st. that need to be considered before the wall is built. and i do not know if the with is required for the egress for the future. i cannot answer that question. commissioner fung: do you know why this wall is required for life safety? >> i do not know at this time. it could be, but that is not -- the future kermit is not a permit yet. so i am not too sure.

i spoke to the engineer and he assured me that it was. i need to do more code research on that. you could call a code section out to work for you in certain conditions and you can pull one out to make it easier. commissioner fung: i need to back off from that question because i read it as a fire wall but it just says fire-rated wall. >> the future exit system has not been permitted yet or applied for, so i am not sure. president garcia: you feel as though you might be looking at a spite wall. nothing made you feel as though you might be looking at a spike wall? >> i do not know. they explained to me that it was the way they wanted it to work. i think it is unfortunate that, with this building, it was all

one building at one time. there is another building in the back and it is just a mess up there. whenever you go up the alley, you to other properties. i think it is 1112 lombard. it has property windows the whole way around. there are a lot of issues. there is a fire escape going from 2323 hyde as well that encroaches on to 1100 lombard. the front easement crosses property lines. there are a lot of chris- crossing property lines. there are a lot of parts that support the upper section of the building. i do not know what to say. it is very messy and complicated when you go into the courtyard area. a judge will sort that out.

those are my comments. commissioner fung: are there any other bridge -- any other building permit applications? >> there was another before us with regard to some seismic work. that is going very well. the tenants complained a little bit, but it is moving forward. there is interior remodeling at 1100 lombard as well. >> do you have anything, mr. sanchez? >> just to be brief, most of these issues are building and fire code issues and not planning issues. this is the fifth permit that has been issued on the subject property in the last year. most of those relate to interior work. one was subject to an appeal that was a permit to remove the front stairs. both planning and building have

been involved in that and have worked to ensure with the property owner that the stairs were provided in the rear to provide access to the voting. there is also work on the garage level. in terms of the timing, i do not know what prompted this permit. as stated by the permit holder, the civil suit was filed on february 2 and this permit was filed on february 3 and about a week or two after that, the variance application was filed. the variants is still pending. i do not believe it has been scheduled. the earliest it could be heard is in april. that variants is to -- they wanted to remove the fire escape in front of the building, which would be an improvement. even though this is a historic resource, we would move the fire escape and provide the stairs. also, extending the stairs to

the roof. i just wanted to provide the additional information. commissioner fung: can you describe a little further what is in the various tax -- what is in the variance? >> i have not reviewed it. galvanized metal is required by the census go building and fire department in order to remove the existing fire escape system. president garcia: why does that require a variants? >> because the property encroach on the existing rear yard. there are no pending building permits at this time. this is the most recent building permit. this is the only pending case for entitlement that we have at

this time. there would be another building permit that would be required in order to implement the variants that was filed. commissioner fung: regarding the rating on this as a resource? >> nothing that would trigger historic preservation or commission review. not a landmark building. it is a resource. we have identified it as a resource. in terms of additional review, the hspc would not trigger that. >> is there any public comment? seeing none, we will move into a bottle. we will start with michelle. >> i just have a couple of quick things. i will read from the code about the eggs a garage. "exits shop pastor kitchens, storage rooms or spaces used for similar purposes, like a garage.

" it is not that i have a problem or do not think that some part of the fire wall is not necessary. if you think of the future permit, they are building this directly abutting 2323. i agree that a fire wall or two should be required. my question is the wall as part of this permit. it does not appear to ever be part of the future where the two buildings might kiss. this wall, as drawn, opens into a courtyard of approximately 10-foot with. it serves no purpose, even for their future expansion plans. as a person who tries to work this stuff out for everybody's benefit, i could come up with a scheme that says that that part of the walt is not necessary

where the buildings actually touch. >> when the variance gets granted and the unattractive fire exit is removed and the stairs are put in the back, you need to get to the backyard through the front yard and you need to do it through your property. you need a fire-rated wall. it is the wall we are building to protect that entry from the front yard to the room backyard. -- from the front yard to the rear yard. this drawing has been shown a couple of times, we have never seen it. i do not know where it came from. it does not appear to be accurate to me. but i withhold judgment because it is a piece of a drawing. it does not show the whole side.

i do not think you can put storage in a garage. i think that is what the code says. i think you can exit through the garage. i am certain that to solve the problem, we can get the equivalency and come out of what is a very ample and generous garage area, rather than going out to our property and leaving in that way. there was a neighborhood meeting and they were at that neighborhood meeting. the entire plan for the whole of the product was shown to them. you can see in our brief that are representative was there and signed as having been there and seen the whole project. that is what prompted their lawsuit. thank you. president garcia: this probably has no relevance at all, but why would -- it seems as though