basically at community policing issue. this is another step in increasing trust between the department and the people it serves. that is what we have known is critical to the success of a effective policing. this is a continuation of that. it does not work without the leadership at the top and thank you for that, chief suhr. i was struck at our joint meeting, we have all been through some difficult meetings where the department can beat up at and it was not that. it was a balance set of public comment which i was pleased to see and a tremendous account of positive public comment from kids. i thought that was great. we can always do better as a department. i think accepting the recommendations the use commission has made and the department will implement is an effort to do better. you always want to do better.

the second thing i want to say is we have been doing better. the department has been getting better year after year and the best actual evidence of that as director hicks can attest to is the number of complaints made that the occ has declining and declining. that has not taken into account sustained complaints. this is individuals in our community who are dissatisfied with their interactions with the police, represented by the number of complaints made has been decreasing year after year for the past several years. that demonstrates a real progress made by the department and community policing efforts and the progress made by the officers in their interactions with all members of the community, youth included. thank you to the youth commission and thank you for showing leadership on the most important way to demonstrate effective policing. president mazzucco: thank you.

>> are we on for april 22? the 29th or the 22nd. the reason i am saying that, we have more to discuss now. this is sfgov.org. this is a model for certainly the bay area and anyone else who will be listening. it will be great for everyone to hear what you have accomplished, what the youth commission is about. we're looking at april 29? ok. thank you. commissioner chan: thank you for your presentation and your very great follow-up. that presentation was very concise and very brief in light of the chief's leadership. i wondered if you have further questions on where you are and how to follow-up with you.

also i wanted to ask the chief, i remember one of the commissioners asked about having the police officers or the captain's go to the local schools and introduce themselves and get to know the students. >> i would be glad to except that. there are 10 captains. 10 cabins can go to 10 schools to welcome them. she wanted us -- 10 captains can go to attend schools to welcome them. when you think about all the grammar schools, middle schools, and high schools in san francisco, we could do a draw and we can do the 10 the kids want them to hit. we have been doing that forever. i do not think the kids understand how many schools there are. >> if commissioners have any

recommendations about the top schools to hit. president mazzucco: i want to thank you for your hard work and it was great meeting these young men and women of the youth commission. keep up the good work. thank you. >> they are doing great as young people. president mazzucco: on the right path, that is for sure. >> item 2b. we have director joyce hicks. >> good evening. the occ has no recent activities to report this evening. >> thank you. >> line item 2c, commission reports. president mazzucco: i have nothing to report.

commissioners, anything to report? before move on, i think i see supervisor campos and the policy director is here. thank you for all your help. you met with commissioner chan and i in my office. it turned out to be a real success. thank you for coming. >> thank you. president mazzucco: anything to add? we have handled line-item 2d. any announcements? >> we have one. on the 25th of april at 6:00 p.m., at the commission will meet at 3151 ortega street to hear public comments concerning public protection in that district. president mazzucco: anything to add to the agenda?

hearing none, public comment on line items 2a, b, c, and d. we have item 3. >> discussion regarding anticipated attrition rates and future staffing plan. >> if you do not mind, i am glad to hear your report that there is an academy plan -- class. >> one is guaranteed this fiscal year. they will close of this fiscal year and we presented to the board today, and it is the same five-year stopping options are presented to this commission. the poa met with the mayor's office on anything they might do having entry-level officers come in at a lesser rate of pay to try and alleviate the expense, at least in the early

years when we have both sets of offices -- officers leaving and those on the books at the same time. and anything to try and get the most classes that we can get as quickly as possible and get to that sustained rate of two classes you're going forward so we do not get ourselves in the situation we seem to find ourselves in every seven to 10 years. >> let me put forth the thoughts i have. every year we come up with telling the board and the mayor we have a huge attrition rate and what are we going to do? we come up with these plans. what i was thinking about was in having a presentation for the commissioners and the public that discussions -- discusses the attrition rate and what is the long term planning? we get different information from different sources, like the planning department. the planning department works with the police department and gives them copies of their

plans. i know the planning department looks at population density in the neighborhood. this have to be approved for those high rises, they look at utilities, they look at traffic lanes and maybe it is with the traffic department the work with the police department. does anyone talked-about security? what i am thinking about is we are going to develop treasure island. there is discussion about hunters point. there is high rises that continue to go up. there it is a new su -- a new subway coming to town. with new density and a higher attrition rate, we have one class, maybe more. there is no real commitment to that. there is an article recently about the density of san francisco, it is a high-density city. we have a daily rise in our population. i query whether that has gone up.

what i was wondering, is there a formula that they use for safety i am planning, with all this development in high rises and subways and the influx. they talk about the bay area, as far away as reno in the future. i am wondering, is there a formula to determine the population density, growth, whether it is daily or new residents. what is the area the people get to determine the proper amount of personnel for a city the size? we had that number in 1971 but i have no idea where this came from. i do not know of this is tied to statistics or if this is a number someone put out. when we talk about the attrition of 300 officers, how long it takes to get officers up to speed, if you are bringing one class in, you're losing 300,

one class and 10 laterals, there is not a balance. how would that affect his own operation or bring the homicide rate down, how would it affect our timing to arrive, i forget what that is called. response time. how would that affect our staffing in terms of the 10 districts? if no one is looking at safety personnel versus population, why not? how do we put a plan together that we maintain, we maintain officers coming in. we are scrambling at the last moment to raise the awareness. i thought it would be more of an educational peace -- piece

culminating in -- this is something we have to address and incorporate versus scrambling every june to see if we can get a placer 2. >> sure. i do not know if the planning commission -- department plays into the personnel areas at all. they do as far as growth. right now, treasure island has two sector cars. it takes two officers to staff that 24 hours a day. that would be in an additional -- that would be an additional 24 officers. they never added 154 of the tenderloin station, and they

never added the 20 that started the domestic violence unit. the sro program. these officers were never added. they were found within the 1971. the study that you speak of was done in -- and commissioned and paid for. you're not going to find a larger, more comprehensive for the dollar steady then that one. if you want -- i know commissioner marshall brought that before. we did similar studies what we did the efficiency plan some years before that. we do look at per-capita, we still get neighborhood density, we do look at the time population residents versus and nighttime population, weekends, and the like. as far as the front-end work that i was speaking of was the fact that when you do get low like some of our neighboring jurisdictions are, that front and police work, the things like

we spoke of with the youth commission, being able to work in the schools cannot profits, being able to deploy people like the violence response team that reacts to homicides as the work, an officer can go back and be individually assigned to schools, there lies at being at full staffing -- relies on being at full staffing. this fiscal year is over in 60 days. in july, hopefully, that is more opportunity to have a minimum of three with as many as five depending on how much we can maneuver the dollars around and the board of supervisors and the mayor can make it happen. i do not think anybody or these myself, i do not think anyone figures we will have less than three classes next year. we cannot get to full staffing if we just do three classes of a five-year plan. we're going to have to figure out somewhere on the line, we

need to or four classes to get there. once we get there -- two or four classes to get there. once we get there, our attrition rate -- or the expiration of the drop program is around 90 officers. between 60 and 90 a year. two academy classes. >> what you said was perfect. the idea that we are adding a treasure island but they're not adding personnel. >> i will put together something very brief. it will not be a binder. three or four page powerpoint that will tell you what we are talking about. through efficiencies and being smarter about the way we do things and if we can get this electronic tablet to take the

current data warehouse into the police cars to keep the officers out on the street, i think that however we used to do it and how many would have needed, we might be able to get five. 1971 to 2000 officers is what we need to do it right. if you want to create this strategy, the deployment of strategy -- officers, the way they are with young people for the reason we're having this current downtrend in gun violence in homicides, it really does not matter. we need to keep doing all of this on the chance that we guessed wrong. i do not think we fix it if it is not broken. we keep doing what we're doing and we add to it. that one thing that is going out the door underneath us is the number of officers. >> i am sorry, i have to leave but that sounds great to me.

that would be helpful. thank you. commissioner slaughter: thank you, commissioner dejesus and chief suhr. we have broken a record over the year over the staffing levels and public safety. it sounds like from your report that the mayor and the board certainly have heard these calls which i am sure are being made louder than you then by yes. i think that commissioner dejesus's idea -- which she is getting at is let's keep this in the front of people's minds. you're out there doing it. we appreciate it. there are people watching us on tv. it is incredibly valuable. we already paid for it. having capping goldberg -- capt. goldberg come back and make a presentation that summarizes, this is how we came up with

1971. here are the facts that we got. here is what has changed and here's how we see it in the future. i think would be a valuable thing for the commission and the public. it is clear -- what commissioner dejesus isays is right. people are scared. where are to lose hundreds of officers. let's smash through as many classes as we can. -- we are going to lose hundreds of officers. let's smash through as many classes as we can. let's figure out a way to replace those -- that attrition rate. doing a bit of an in-depth refresher course for the commission and the public and the board would be useful. we have already paid for the information we have got, let's get it out there. >> it is clear that you are making great progress. thank you. commissioner terman:

commissioner slaughter expressed what i wanted. thank you. commissioner chan: i am wondering, is there a ton of applications? are they very diverse? lots of different languages, lots of different skills and they're waiting to get in and we need funding and we're good to go? >> believe it or not, we're not allowed to look. i have no idea what is. -- it is. when we bring them in buying groups, i get to find out when we have brought them in. sometimes a group will come in and i will say, we will mix it up better than that and another group will come in and it will be a better mix. i am hopeful that when it shakes out in the end that we have a really good snapshot of san francisco, but i do not get to know ahead of time. >> that is interesting to know. thank you. president mazzucco: how many

applications do we have? we can have that number. >> we advertised the test and it crashed the city system. somewhere between 3004 thousand applications within two weeks. after it shipped out, they tested 25 to 2800 and it went down from there. i think we are still in the ballpark of 2000 people on the list and it passed the application process, the written process. the oral process and the physical and now we're into the background. commissioner terman: just so that -- as i understand it, one of the reasons we're not allowed to look is once a class is announced, there is a lag period. and then a cutoff period. there is no pre selection of people before hand as opposed to

those folks who applied afterward. >> it is city h.r. rules. h.r. administers all our tests. i, like you, asked and was told we do not get to know. president mazzucco: thank you. anything further for the chief on this issue? any public comment? >> yes, i have a comment or t wo. if you go back to the two and a half years before at have been speaking to this commission, -- all you knew what was coming. it is not like it is on no news that the city was going into a black hole. the salaries of the police officers and the firemen in the city coming out of revenues as

well as their pensions. i drive a taxi in the city, even though i have an m.a. in finance. i applied for 700 jobs but they're not hiring white guys. they're hiring everyone else. i presented this to the mayor. i presented to the last chief of police. this is not just some black hole here that appeared on the scene. the city will be in bankruptcy in less than seven or eight years based on the present scenario. the mayor knows that. if you look at the peninsula, what happened back there? police department, [unintelligible] and they outsourced to san mateo county. it is happening all over. it is not just san francisco. this city is losing 3000 to 4000 a day. middle-class white people with

salaries. they cannot afford the schools, they cannot afford the police department. they're leaving in droves and you are sitting here as if you are immune to all that. you are not. i have watched it. i lived in the city for 44 years and i'd -- my two daughters were raised here. i have watched the schools deteriorate, i've watched the salaries exploded into the hemisphere. i have nothing against the police department even i have had a round of buyouts with them. i think they're doing one hell of a job. most of them are good officers, but the pay scale if you look in the past in oakland going back two weeks ago, to a half thousand applied for -- two and a half thousand applied for x number of jobs. they pushed the police force into a black hole and i do not see them coming out of right now. the solution is not hiring more

policemen. the solution is blowing off the salaries from the top end and managing the whole supply of money better. you have police officers making over 300 or forded thousand dollars a year. but doing what? i have nothing against the secretary here. previous secretaries were $175,000 a year. what is that about? that is your problem. my view is, hire more special police for jobs which i think they can handle. thank you for your time. president mazzucco: any further public comment? hearing none, public comment is closed. >> good evening. thank you for the opportunity. i live in district 10. i'm here to support the police.

when you live in a neighborhood where gunfire is going on and people are getting killed, you need them out there. i know when the chief was out at william street, he commanded a number of programs that helped slow that down. we need to get more officers out here. this gentleman said he has been here 44, i have been here 55 years. i am an immigrant. i came here and lived here and made this my home. at a point in time when i was growing up on that hill on 729 gerald street, when the military was still operating the base, there was always a need for police on that hill. we did not have enough to cover the public housing. public housing had a police force but they did not have enough people. now, the public houses -- we still need more. -- the public houses have hired

a police officer but we still need more. i was first instrumental in working with them because we had some problems, you needed a security guard. he needed a police officer. whether we go into debt about that, i hate to substitute public safety. i know it is a reality. we all have to deal with it. but it spawned -- is on the city officials to find out where we need more money. i do not want this to be oakland. this is the only place where oaklyn comes, they get ready but they do not come back. we need to maintain that. when you live or work in public housing or the surrounding area, there is problems and we have spots in the city that is read sounds. the honeymoon -- -- tender linet -- hthe tenderloin ain't no

honeymoon place. we have to make sure there are police and hot spots throughout the city. we will have a bigger problem. as a parent who lost a kid to a drive-by shooting, i hate with other parents feel like. i would hate to see a parent or attend another child's funeral. i think you have a great chief. i think he brought the agenda. we need to give him the writ -- the support and everybody needs to get on board. we do not want to see crime go sky high. i do not want to see innocent kids getting killed on the street. i do not want to see it. when they start having little kids get killed, we got a problem. because they ain't carrying no guns, they have no hate. thank you. >> thank you for your comments.

i would encourage you to tell your supervisor and mayor, we have limited control over the budget and they're the ones who need to hear that message. i appreciate your time and it came down here to let the mayor -- you came down here. let the mayor and her supervisor know. -- your supervisors know. president mazzucco: public comment is closed. >> #4, adjournment. president mazzucco: we are dark next week. >> we are. president mazzucco: thank you. we have a motion. >> so movewe are adjourned.