two campuses. i do not understand why you would not have language in here that said they would not take class sizes that were different from the pe class sizes. that would move toward equity, and get rid of some of the concerns you have now. when teachers talk to you about the value of pe, and i stand here as the least bit person speaking on this, i have great sympathy because of what they are not talking about. look at what we do with elementary pe. you accept resolutions for consultants to come in and do something with kids in school instead of having a regular classes. if there is going to be any kind of comprehensive program, there needs to be a serious effort to get teachers who are really teachers, and not simply consultants coming in for a

program, into the elementary grades. let us make sure the rotc does not knock out pe. there is room for both of them, and we need to accommodate both of them. not one person at two sites, though. thank you. president yee: commissioners, any comments? commissioner wynns: i just want to think commissioners -- thank commissioner yee and murase. this has been going on forever. i appreciate the intention to make sure we get proper supervision, accommodate the independent study, and tried to do what we can do. we have discovered some glitches that were bought planned for. this is a way to fix this, and i appreciate it. thank you. commissioner mendoza: i have a

few questions. on the top part of our second reading, it has some of the amendments that are not written into the -- it is written into the resolution, but i wanted to get some clarity. it says they must have bay certified jrotc instructor. then its said it would omit the requirement the new hires have the certification. can you tell me how? it sounds like one says you have to have a certified, and the next says we are omitting the

requirement. president yee: the second part is that the -- i guess the idea is that there is supposed to be a commissioned officer and a noncommissioned officer. we put the original amendment to gather and it made it sound like everybody had to have a pe requirements. you do not have to have that, as long as the commissioned officer would have the credentials. this allows for the hiring of the noncommissioned officer. that is sort of what that was. commissioner mendoza: so, to omit the requirement for all new hires that do not -- it is missing something. there is something that is missing. it sounds like you can be an

instructor, and you are omitting the requirement for being the instructor. i would like to see something that clarifies commission versus noncommissioned. >> just to clarify, omiting the requirement that new hires have the necessary certification -- it means that not every person you hire us to have the credential, which was the original wording of the last amendment. now it says that we are allowed to hire a instructors that do not yet have the necessary certification, so long as there is an appropriate number of credentialed instructors to oversee the site. as long as there are appropriate numbers. i do not want to get into another situation where we are hiring people who do not have

certification and all of our certified people are gone. and all we have our non- certified people. president yee: i am ok with adding that. that was the intent. hold on. did you catch that? commissioner mendoza: each site must have an instructor who is certified to provide supervision. but says clarify that each school must have a jrotc certified to provide supervision. if that is not correct -- >> it is good you are asking this question because it does not mean that every site has to have an instructor. that is ideal but it also says that if there is a site that is not have instructors with the

proper certification, another site may supervise that. that is where it comes in. >> your first statement says each school site mayst have -- must have a jrotc instructor. one could be supervising two sides but that not -- >> you are right. and that should say, it must have a jrotc available or something like that to make clear that that instructor does not have to be placed as longe s there is another supervisor. president yee: let me -- let me

back up a little bit. hold on. that discussion and if one person can supervise the activities of two sites, i gave the analogy -- while this is not new to our school district, when i look at our early education department, that a supervisor could be supervising two or three sites. when i gave that analogy, this is what we were after. >> can we clarify that each must have a supervising jrotc instructor who is certified to provide supervision, or something that shows that this person candy for two sites but

clarifying this person is one neck and supervise. -- one that can supervise. >> the pace that -- page that commissioner menoza is reading from is just the background. it is important that the language of the resolution contains the wording that will get you to where you are trying to get. changing this is not necessarily going to ensure that the actual resolution contains language. commissioner mendoza: when this came out, we needed this discussion. i am honoring the idea i can have this discussion. i get this is not the resolution but if this is the back out to

the resolution, i want to be clear what you guys are voting on. >> to the degree we can be helpful in making sure the language of the resolution contains declared you are looking for, that is what president yee is trying to put together. commissioner mendoza: when i read it, it is not clear to me. this is our moment. that is why we brought it forward, so we can have this moment. i am sorry but you are going to have to help me understand this. the omitting the requirement is for anybody who we hire that is new. they do not have to have their certification as long as there is somebody else available. is that correct?

>> ultimately, we have to have enough people on staff to cover the requirement that they would oversee the independent studies. if the issue is 10 years from now, all of those people would have to have qualification. what would be the priorities so that you can still oversee the independent study? if there are more needs, the other people we hire that enter the system may not qualify for that. as long as we have to enough people. >> if we have eight sites that

have jrotc, all we need are three or four certificated, certified people that can be the instructors. so we also -- we always have to have that ratio. president yee: exactly. that is the ratio. ideally a commissioned officer. but we understand the difficulty. >> is that the challenge, they are difficult to find to fill these positions? i am seeing a nod. can i ask, with regard to the funding, i know there was recently a fund-raiser. how much was raised? anybody, anybody, anybdoy go --

anybody go? how much did we pay for instructors? if a site had to pay for an instructor, $89,000. if it is 89,000, we are looking, and how much of that is covered by the fed? 30%. ok. so essentially we can cover half of one instructor with the fund- raiser that happened otherwise all of the other instructors would have to come site budgets. >> we just passed about $600,000 from central office to fund the jrotc instructors. commissioner mendoza: at the site, how many have budgeted?

it is not coming from fund- raising, it has to come from the budget. that is what this is saying. private funds. >> that is correct. commissioner mendoza: so if we are not raising it, all the rest of it will have to come from our site in order to keep all of the instructors we have. >> as far as i know, that is correct. commissioner mendoza: so based on the amount that has been raised for this year, we will have to pay for our instructors for this coming year. is that correct? >> correct. in reviewing the consolidations, the sites allocated to keep their jrotc instructors.

the one side did not keep the position and an instructor will be going to a site where the instructor has retired. commissioner mendoza: they will get replaced somewhere else. but these sites are making decisions on their own. >> as far as we know, yes. commissioner mendoza: i wanted to know, i appreciated that the pe teachers came out and i respect the work they are doing. i wonder what to the matching coursework for pe standards are compared to what jrotc instructors are signing off on. is that, all of the practice they are doing, is that what they are signing off on as being

a physical education? >> we do not know the answer to that. commissioner mendoza: but if we are -- i need clarification. hold on. we cannot have you talking from the audience. let's see if we have some way of answering this. >> i would think that it's the only people who see that are the people who have supervised the independent study, so if this gentleman has supervised, he would have seen what type of activities. i suspect that the head of high school operations would supervise the program. i would assume because they did not supervise themselves.

it would have to be somebody who is in charge of high school operations to oversee the jrotc. otherwise we are talking about a program that is basically unsupervised. >> jrotc are supervised by the principals at their schools. there is some general coordination work but they are supervised by the schools. commissioner mendoza: i'm not worried about the supervision of the instructor. i am worried about the supervision of the students and how those are matched. there is one thing to be a pe instructor when you have your kids in front of view ve -- in front of you, i guess my question is, is the act you are

signing off on standard, a routine marchant instruction that happens? because the students do typical work throughout -- >> we are not prepared to answer that. we do not know the answer. commissioner mendoza: we are saying we can have an instructor that uncovered to link schools but we do not know the details of how that is going to happen. is that correct? is that correct? jerry, is that correct? somebody. >> i am bill sanderson, the

executive director of curriculum. one of the things -- three years ago, we develop to the independence that the plan for the supervision of students that were in jrotc and that was worked on by the physical education group and the instruction. last year, and not to this past academic year, but the one before, we did some intensive professional development throughout the year. for jrotc and folks that were supervising the independent study program to help them with the implementation. that was the year before last. those are the specific kinds of activities that are out line. i do not have the independent plan on me right now. but that is the work that is being done out of curriculum.

commissioner mendoza: do you feel like what the instructors would be signing off on is the curriculum that has been developed for pe approval? >> if the same plan was developed three years ago, that is the same study plan we are currently using. commissioner mendoza: is that something an instructor can oversee at two sites? >> we have had various models and we have had one instructor at one site. i have not seen it happen at two before. i will tell you that sometimes there have been a large number of students that were in the study. it is labor-intensive paper work. i will say that. that is one of the comments we have received from the credentialed teachers.

commissioner mendoza: the curriculum that was built that our students take, you feel they are getting sufficient instruction based on that? >> that is a judgment call i would not want to make right now, honestly. it is the plan that the accord that line. commissioner mendoza: what are my other questions? this is the opportunity to ask some of these challenging questions, and this is the gift that keeps on giving and it is one that many as a lot -- many

of us have been comfortable with. i have always supported jrotc. my dad is a 28 year veteran. what i do not support and what i am having a challenging time as that we have made four changes in 2.5 years with extensions to me tet the challenges that were not met by our instructors. because of that, it puts us in these awkward positions where we are renewing because those things have not been met or we are trying to re-tool it so we can have two at sites overseen by one now. i find this to be ironic for such a responsible program to be irresponsible around satisfying recommendations that we put

forward. here we are, this is our fourth changed to this into a half years. when i am listening to the instructor talk about what he has to go through in order to get to his credentials, we have expectations of our teachers. all of the work they go through in order to teach our students. i appreciate -- in order to do that you have to be a teacher who is trained to do that. i am not very sympathetic are around that. i think the last thing i will say about this, that drives me nuts, when we're talking about charter schools, this is the political hot potato in my mind. the idea i got skating e-mails

to my colleagues at city hall asking them to put pressure on me, because i refused to be the fifth vote to have this discussion, was insulting, at the least. to say we do not need her vote on the resolution because we have are four votes but i needed on the fifth to have this discussion, is disgusting to me. i had to ask that person to back off and stop putting political pressure on my colleagues in order to make me vote to have this discussion. i am voting to have this discussion. i voted to have this discussion for these various reasons because a lot of this was not clear. we do not have enough details on how we are going to implement this. how we are going to monitor how

this one a supervisor is going to oversee two sites. we do not have enough information on how this will impact our pe teachers. yet we are going to extend it for another year and provide one supervisor for two sites. and that is ok. i've voted because i wanted to have this opportunity to not support this change but to voice my challenge with this. the thing i find most amusing is in the beginning the first two years i was heavily informed. i got a lot of information because i am a supporter of jrotc. in these last changes, i have nothing because there is a question about whether or not i will be supportive. that is not how we make policy.

thank you. [applause] >> thank you, commissioner mendoza, for your comments. i think we have all felt the frustration but i want to point out that one of the main reasons we have done this is that both of the things we are talking about, the independent study option and the credential in requirement we have put on rotc instructors were added to the board to something we were doing at the last moment. i am sympathetic to the fact that, you know, and implementing those things did not work out as easily as we would have hoped.

i understand it is frustrating. we all share that frustration. but i think that in this politicized issue environment, that because we are trying to find our way through this and because the board has done a lot of these things, and they have not been recommendations from anybody. let's fix it and see if we can do that. it is required changes. i know that is difficult for everybody. i think everybody has operated as honestly as they can in this. again, i wanted to appreciate we keep trying to make it workable because after iraq, a program that we support only nominally but cannot work with the difficult complexities we have imposed on it with the best intentions, that is why it is necessary to do this. i am sorry it is difficult for everybody.

but i appreciate that we are doing this. >> that is a spirited discussion. so, i really actually have a lot to say about this, another amendment to the original resolution in 2009. all of you get comfortable in your chairs. i appreciate the pe instructors who came out and stayed for so long listening through our budget woes. anybody who heard us discuss this budget, make no mistake, this is about priorities. this is about graduating students. everyone on this board folded -- everyone on this board voted for it. we have a commitment to our students to graduate every single one of them.

meaning they are eligible to be qualified for college. it means they will not have to take four years of remedial english and math at city college. it means that they can hand in an application like everybody else that we have been graduating and be eligible for a uc or private college institution. this is what this budget is about today that we voted on. i think everyone here, you heard a lot of talk about equity. let's talk about what this is really about. this resolution, commissioned hr mendoza brings up a good point, we do not set a good policy, a sound policy, for individuals. because they did not comply with the requirements that this board

set forward, we are again modifying it. we have modified it because these individuals did not comply with the requirements set forward by this board. now, not only did they not complete the requirement, not a single one in ruled. to blame our human-resources is wrong because actually they brought it to them three times and had discussions with them. they had every opportunity to enroll and they did not. here we are again extending it another year, asking for more provisions and fundamentally, i think people know where i am at. jrotc is jrotc. pe is pe. pe is mandated for a very good pe is mandated for a very good reason.