commissioner sugaya? >> yes, i have a question for staff. the business is operating on a class 40 restaurant license, correct? >> that is correct. >> there are words that are used, bona fide public eating place. how does the a.b.c. or planning department. determine whether or not the majority of the revenues come from food sales rather than local? >> it's a definitional term as a understand it both for a.b.c. regulations and for the planning code. you know, i think as a matter of practice what typically occurs is that abc is sort of the lead agency and looking at issues of whether or not a place is operating as a bona fide eating accomplishment or not. our planning code does give us the ability, however, to request copies of receipts and to perform our own

investigation if there is some allegation placed on operating as bona fide eating. commissioner sugaya: and we haven't done that to this date on this venue? >> no. my understanding is it's generally complaint drinken and we have no evidence that they are praising outside of the parameters of a bona fide eating establishment. >> thank you. to the project response, a couple of questions. first we have allegations that you are carding people after a certain hour to get into your establishment. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> the reason fon -- for that is? >> because it's slightly more difficult on a busy friday or saturday night when we have a door person to monitor exactly who is inside eating and who is inside drinking because it is in the middle of a very busy bar corridor on grant avenue, so since we do have a full bar

liquor license, if we have, you know, 20 or 10 20-year-old kids with fake i.d.'s in, i feel responsible to make sure they're not coming in to drink as opposed to coming in to eat. more than happy to, if a 13 or 14-year-old comes in with a parent or guardian of course they're welcome to come in at any mario -- hour. >> but let's say five teenagers came in, range of ages 16 to 18 at 11:00 at night? >> i would ask that they -- if they were accompanied by a legal guardian because honestly, just from a control standpoint it is a fairly large accomplishment. we do have security there most of the time to monitor but i don't want to have somebody go and buy something to drink and be responsible. >> do you know -- know of many

other restaurants that operate that way? >> many. >> that card at the door? >> sure. that have a 47 liquor license? within a block and a half of a.c.c. gino and karlo -- geno and carlo's, deluva, all use people to card at the door. >> it -- thank you. vice president wu: commissioner borden? >> yeah, i'm very supportive of the youth and support ta. i think the only concern is as commissioner sugaya was saying whether you are a bona fide eating and drinking establishment. i did see from united mileage plus that you are now one of the restaurants i can get points for so i think that's a step in the right direction. obviously you can't make people eat. people come in to places for different reasons. but i do think that it's

important that to the extent that you can have, that there aren't a lot of places for people to eat late in this town, so to have your kitchen open the full time would be actually very essential because as we know there have been a number of articles written about it. even marcia gagliardi has done an app now about where you can eat late in san francisco. do you plan to credit -- have your kipen open until the time you close? >> currently right now the kitchen is open until 1:00 a.m. we plan to continue that. it's part of our business plan. we think there is a dearth of late-night food in the north beach area. if you walk around to golden boy pizza, there say line of people coming out of late night bars and venues to get food. there are two, buster's and golden boy's. we see that as a benefit.

happy to continue that. putting that in the c.u. anywhere is troublesome for us from an asset, valuation of a business standpoint because -- because if we do choose at some point to sell our business i don't want the next owner to come in and a -- have to abide by a conditional use permate -- permit that says he has to serve food until 1:00 a.m. adding to the c.u. is really debt rimal to the value ouve business. and the i -- other thing i would ask you to consider is i know some restaurants do wrist bands. i might suggest that you do some sort of restaurant band for people who are -- i understand the complication and i happen to know of other restaurants in other neighborhoods that actually do card people at the door and i know that you can't have people in the immediate bar area that are not of legal drinking age, but i think that, you know, again, as a restaurant to be

open to everyone who walks through the door is actual hi advantageous and so i would recommend instituting some sort of wrist band for people over 21 that they put on so you can have a real tangible way to see. obviously if people want to break the laup and buy minors drinks, that's going to happen because that happens everywhere anyway. but my point is your restaurant can be inclusive so people can come in and it makes a lot of sense. we do have all-ages shows there. in ards -- regards to having wrist. bands for any of those shows, we're going to be louing anybody in because we want to allow as many people -- i know people from the blue bear school of music and they've approached me and said hey, we'd love to have some of the kids come to -- come down and i'm all for that. my only concern is if we have a bunch of 19-year-old kids coming in that clearly have

already been drinking with fake i.d.'s, or look like it, it's really hard for us to monitor everybody all the tie. i do understand where you are coming from. we're still operating at that point as a restaurant. just trying to limit to some degree our liability. >> no, please believe me, i know a lot about the challenges. i guess the only, the only issue i think is the concern whether or not, i mean because your liquor license requires you to be a bona fide eating and drinking establishment, you know, the extent that people can come and eat there is important -- for sure. >> for the -- you know, i'm very supportive of the music. i think that's a really great attribute but making sure we have the restaurant portion is obviously what drives it. i -- i recommend the entertainment space and your menu looks very interesting. >> our food reviews are great.

>> i've seen that people vietnam said such good things about the food. but again, the major concern from a lot of people in the community is that it's, you know, more like a bar. and granted a lot of restaurants after a certain hour in the city, for better or for worse, are more of a bar atmosphere, but to the extent that your liquor license requires it, just kind be -- of looking at some condition ideas that were suggested and about being able to have kids in all hours. >> i think honestly and we're completely comfortable with the idea of if you are under age and you are accompanied by an difficult you are more than welcome any time to come in and eat >> right, but i guess the whole issue, there are a the lot of places for teenagers to hang out and a place where there is live music would be ideal for teenagers to hang out. >> i understand but i see that as such a recipe for disaster the >> no, i totally get it.

a lot of my friends are lawyers and -- that's why we would love to do some live shows where we differentiate, hey, on this particular night underage kids are more than welcome to come in and see live music. >> again, if you could think about this wrist band approach where you give people over 21 wrist bands, that's a way that some people do it and that way -- >> i mean in some ways i'm with you for sure but at the same time how often do you walk into a restaurant and get a wrist band? >> no. believe me. but usually you can go do ssh into a restaurant. it goes both ways. >> it's tricky. it is tricky. >> ok. >> -- vice president wu: thank you. i might add a couple comments here. if i could ask staff a little bit more about the definition of a bona fide restaurant. i understand that it's abc that sort of governs it but what are

the elements that are in the planning code? >> don't have the code right in front of me but my recollection are two of the kind of salient points are a certain percentage i believe 50% of gross receipts need to come from food sales and meals need to be offered at, quote, regular are meal times. so for those meals during which the restaurant is open during those hours they need to offer the sale of meals at those times. and those hours are specifically defined. i think for dinner it is until 11:00 so it's not necessarily that, you know, everybody is obligated as a customer to come and buy food, of course, but the meals have to be offered at those times. vice president wu: ok. thank you. for me i am also interested in ensuring that this restaurant is a bona fide restaurant that's obviously in the regulations itself and so we've discussed today minors being loud in at all times. you know, i understand the

difficulty of people that have feick -- fake i.d.'s, but having that ability to come in and get a bite to eat regardless of age, food service at least until i think what this dfltion drives that, the bona fide restaurant definition, i don't know if it's better to jd here to the -- adhere to the planning code or put a special c.u. on this land. i'm looking at the conditions proposed by the north beach business association. so full service food at all times. i am open to this idea avenue cording to the definition of bona fide restaurant. as far as not moving dining tables out of the way, does the planning department ever regulate in that way? would it also be complaint driven? >> i'm not familiar with that

type of condition being added. it would seem like ail fairly difficult enforcement iraq for us because it would require obviously staff to be there far outside of normal business hours. or some sort of photographic evidence that something has taken place illegally. i want to clarify on the point of the bona fide eating establishment, as a restaurant the planning code ns -- requires that they cannot -- continue to operate as a bona fide eating establishment. so it doesn't need to be addressed in a condition because that's just by regulation anyway. >> sure, sure, i understand that but i think there is a desire to ensure that beyond the conditions that are adhesive. so interested to see what other commissioners have to say. commissioner sugaya?

commissioner sugaya: yeah, i'm going to make a motion to approve the project with staff conditions. i think i don't have to go through them all. they're in some appendix somewhere. and then i also want to add a condition that the proprietor and owner of the accomplishment submit within one year to the planning department the gross receipts breakdowns between alcohol and food consumption. and that take place every year thereafter. vice president wu: commissioner antonini? commissioner antonini: i'd like to talk to project sponsor if that, if what was proposed in the motion would be workable for you to do reporting along those lines? >> i've had no opportunity to

speak but appreciate being here. i understand the concerns that are being expressed. it does seem, and this -- and teague and i are, we'll call it relatively new to the restaurant game -- it it does seem that a special condition of that type of reporting requirement seems to go relatively far beyond at least what we're familiar with as normal practice for businesses like ours. one thing i can say with unquestioned certainty is that we are a bona fide eating place. we have a men awe is is -- that is extensive. it has several different types of food options from appetizers to sandwiches to entrees to desserts. the, at least thirds -- 2/3 of that menu, the majority of that menu is available at all times. we provide brunch service. we provide a brunch service

from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m. on every saturday and every sunday of every weekend. one thing we can't control for and i think commissioner borden referenced it, is we can't control what people do when they come in. we can control what we offer. we run -- we can control what we promote. we run promotions through groups like live -- groupon. we are promoting ourselves as a restaurant. what we can't control is what people will do next year or the year after that or the year after that. all we can control is what we promote, what we offer. and to put a co., and i under where it's coming from, to ensure we're a bona fide eating place i would suggest there are better metrics to determine whether we're a bona fide eating place than whether 49% came from food and 51% came

from alcohol and wine sales. >> i agree with you on that. there are a lot of reasons why even some very high-end restaurants might end up with a higher than 50% consumption of alcohol relative to food because their wine is so expensive. so it's a little deceptive and i would probably be supportive as long as this is reporting. it doesn't mean anything else. you report it but you still operate regardless of what the numbers are. the numbers would not, you know, have any ability on your ability to operate. otherwise i'm not going to support the motion because i want to make sure it's not some sort of litmus test where you would have to stop operation because it's quite possible you could have a 75-25 alcohol ratio because people come in and as you pointed out very klattly, they may not choose to eat. they may have had dinner already, they may want to come have a drink, listen to some

music and that comes with the territory. the idea is since you're trying to be a bona fide restaurant as per the definition, that's the goal what we're trying to do but again we can't control people's preferences. i would assume and this may be more of a question for staff that the fact that there is no, the question about dancing, this is not a dancing permit so dancing is not part of it and also the fact that the bona fide restaurant part is not anything we would be putting. in fact this motion is only to extend the hours of amplified music until 1:30 in the morning. that's all i believe is before us. can you moment -- comment on that? >> that is correct. and i should note that the category of use that is already authorized on the property and that they -- these activities fit into is called other

entertainment. it's very broad but two of the biggies that fall into that are either live bands playing or deejays playing. one would think those are activities that would inherenty maybe involve people wanting to dance. i've never seen associated with anything other than an entertainment permit. something to restrict them to dance. >> yeah. and i don't think that's in there. it would be allowed under other entertainment. it's just something the north beach merchants' association hozz thrown in but it doesn't mean it's part of our moigs and if something does feel like dancing, ok. let's see what the other commissioners have to say. i'm ok with the motion as long as it's only a reporting thing. i don't want to single -- single out a particular business. we've had these things before where there say ratio of food

to clol and we haven't had reporting in the past. let's see what the others have to say. vice president wu: commissioner borden? commissioner borden: how often have you been aware of these awed -- accounting audits for abc? >> i can't tell you about abc's practices. it's not very common for us as a department. it's something typically abc takes the lead on. the frequency i couldn't tell you. commissioner borden: it's interesting because i understand the spirit of what commissioner sugaya wants to do and i am supportive of verifyfying for making sure that this restaurant operates as a bona fide eating and drinking establishment. what question i have in my mind is that if you took any restaurant, maybe not french laundry because they charge

$2.50 for their -- $250 for their several course menu dinner -- it would be interesting to know and i just don't know, even though this is the law i don't know whether anyone as even tested the threshold whether the 50% is met or is pretty standard. i would be interested to know. because i don't know and i know a lot of these rules get made and nobody ever actually enforces or reexamines. i would be eager to know in general in the restaurant business what people's profiles look like in food versus clol even for places that don't stay open very late. i would be eager to know that because, you know, there is a reason that restaurants mark up bottles of wine on the menu and there is a reason why restaurants serve alcohol in general, you know, everyone knows that you don't make a lot

of money off the food, you make the money off the alcohol so it would be -- the only problem i have with doing this is just that i don't really know that most -- i don't know that this is -- if the threshold is really a fair way just no -- in terms of that you can't drive behavior, right? you can hope that people will eat in your restaurant when you have them in there but sometimes people eat, you know, an appetizer or salad when you wanted them to order a three-course meal. it's complicated. so i agree that the law, for me in general the 50% is an untested, interesting total but i don't know how many restaurants actually really make it. so that's my only reason i have hesitancy around it but i support and want the spirit of the fact that it's a bona fide eating and drinking establishment having to serve food until 1:00 a.m. and having the food be an essential part

of the reason people can show up there, of course the music being an additional attribute, and i just don't know if this accounting thing because i do understand that this is, if we get this then it does trigger, it's not just like just because we know that we have to do something about it. it's a violation of the law if you're not, if the accounting doesn't make it. so, you know, again, like i said, i recognize that's what the law is but i just really wonder how many restaurants really would fit in that and i don't know enough about restaurant economics but i hear a lot about it from people who have really good restaurants that i know that the numbers are quite substantial as far as the profit in the actual alcohol versus the food. and i don't know if it's at all adjusted for the value or if it's just a straight revenue thing. >> yeah, the math on it is

based on gross receipts. 50-50 split commissioner borden : right, so it's not like the value of how much a drink costs versus a food item? >> no. as far as i'm aware there is no accounting for that in the planning code and i don't think abc has provisions to account for those kinds of discrepancies or fluctuations in business models many vice president wu: commissioner moore? >> commissioner moore: i see a general sense of uncertainty of what is in front of us. it's about the restaurant and its attempt to add live music and i think the requirements of course commissioner saugia are clear and reasonable. given the pushback from the neighborhood which we have heard many times before and i

think there is reason to listen to it, only asks us to add clarity to what the c.u. does and doesn't deliver. otherwise, if we are uncertain i think we should be recommending to the applicant to really go for a bar license and that is an altogether different thing because then everything he is doing including the type of food that is being offered here would fit a theme that would be total hi on its own merit around the artistic parameters of the diversity of music, the ability of local musicians to basically have employment, and we're pushed into a corner where i hear us attempting to reinvent the rules. so i am in support of the motion, commissioner sugaya made, just for the very simple reasons to add clarity to the performance of what c.u. is in front of us and nothing else.

i am prepared to discuss everything else under a different play-action and i am probably very open. i think it's a great idea to introduce this kind of music, however, under this pending application you need to sort out how you want to do it ond the restrictions or the clarity which this commission is asked to put around land use approval for c.u.'s, totally in line with what he is asking for. so i am in support of the venue. however, i am in support of the motion as phrased with the clarification that commissioner sugaya vocalized. >> you know, i'm not out to be a vigilante or anything. but the french laundry is a restaurant, all right? michael mina's two places are restaurants. i go to restaurants, i eat food, i drink wine. i admit probably their split is more than 50-50, but i go there

as a restaurant. and restaurants that promote themselves as restaurants generally are restaurants. the reason i put this on here is that it isn't just a restaurant. you're having live entertainment and that changes the parameter for me a lot. because all of a sudden you're not operating just as a restaurant, but you're having this entirely other use on the premises. and the problem that the commission has, i believe, with c.u.'s is that as you said, the c.u. runs with the property, not you. so as you said, it puts a dent in your ability, if you ever want to leave, to have other restrictions around the premises. and so therefore i think where i'm looking at it as a slightly

different animal than just, you know, trying to, well, it isn't, to me it isn't just a restaurant. i think i've said that a million times now. but in any case that's why i want to put this condition on and it isn't meant to trigger any kind of enforcement. it's a reporting mechanism and after five or six years, you know, i hope you last that long, 10 years, if the split is 80-20 then maybe somebody will step around and say uh, maybe there is something wrong with your being a restaurant. i think that's what commissioner moore is trying to say, that we probably want have as much problem with this if you came in as a bar or some other restaurant -- entertainment use allowed by the code. but under the code and your liquor license it's a restaurant use, etc., etc., so that's the reason i wanted to

have that condition the >> thank you. just to get at the concern, as i, one of the concerns i would imagine would happen in tems of the reporting requirement is that it might vary month to month greatly so that one month might be more lick r sales and another month might be more food sales. i think what their project sponsor is saying is it's hard to control what people buy so i am wondering if another metric might be something like the number of people who order food versus only drink or some other metric that gets at the concern rather than just gross receipts? i just offer that as an option. and i guess -- sorry. >> no, that's the reason i have the condition because yeah, you can't control behavior but if i go to a restaurant and i order a cocktail and wine and eat food that's one thing. if i come here and it's offered as entertainment, sure i'm going to go there and just drink.

so suddenly it isn't a restaurant any more. vice president wu: commissioner antonini? commentcomment if you go through the old reviews, the vadge imagine -- vast majority mention the food, not the entertainment as much. so there is obviously food being served and people were commenting on it and commenting to yelp. i'm fine with the motion. maybe i could ask project sponsors, is this a figure that will be easily produceable and usual -- won't involve a lot of extra work on your part? because it seems like you would keep a tally of things consumed for the restaurant anyway. >> yeah, i think there would be additional reporting elements and certainly a little bit more work but not something impossible to produce. on