there is nothing out of place. and it really is sort of like the suburbanization of the city. it's turning the city into gated suburbs. which is too bad. i don't know. so i don't have any answers to that. but i do want to say one other thing. talking about variety. oh, you know, having dealt as a professional with the eastern neighborhood zoning, the rezoning, you know, i think there is a problem that it's already 10 years -- it's already out of date. i think we -- you know, i think planning has started to do this. but, you know, we really need to think about how people really work now. and how people really use public space now and semi public space now. because retail is not what it used to be. everybody knows that. with amazon and so on and so

forth. you just can't -- you can't lease out retail space the way you used to. and, you know, there's no cobblers anymore. there's no shoe repair places. it just doesn't happen. and what -- where people -- what people can't get online is cafes, is restaurants, and the places where people socialize. more and more people work at home. the cafes were packed with people working in the cafe because they don't -- want to be around other people while they're working. so they don't want to work at home. and the poor cafe owner has to deal with these people who aren't really buying that much coffee. [laughter] and i think -- i think there's some movement toward this. that people can have home offices with an employee or two . i think we really -- zoning has gotten more and more complicated over the decades.

and i really think we need to make it simpler. that's one thing. and i think we need to recognize the fact that one of the reasons for zoning was to keep noxious industries away from residential and that reason really no longer exists. we can zone areas for the kinds of industries or small industries would like to have there. but if those small industries don't compist the whole exercise is pointless. zoning really has to do something with what people are really doing. and i think we've -- we've inherited so much and the process takes so long we're not really accommodating where we're going to go. anyway, that's it. >> unfortunately, this room is not -- it's very difficult to have a dialogue in this room. and i feel like we should all be around a table rather than having a dialogue like this. because i would love to have conversations like this with the commissions but it's very difficult frankly.

what's that? >> we should have more dinners or roundtables. >> there's a sunshine problem. i mean, that's the issue here. a lot of what you say is absolutely correct. there is this -- zoning is an incredibly blunt instrument and what we've tried to do in san francisco is take a very blunt instrument and refine it to the point where we try to control at the public sector, is incred -- incredibly details things. and it creates a sterility that you're talking about. what is -- what we can't seem to get our hands around in san francisco in my opinion is that the best places are the places that existed before zoning existed. and, therefore, why are we trying to control it all when the fact that that control is what created the sterility? so that may be an overly simplistic argument. because it's not possible anymore, right? because we can't -- because letting things grow organically

means you're going to get block long reflecting glass that nobody wants. but at the same time, we do need to think about other tools. and we're not good at that, right? we're very good on the regulatory side. we're very good at sort of -- here's the rules. and by the way, the rules are one thing. but working and fighting over individual projects is another. but i don't think we're very good at thinking about other tools and how we work with developers and communities and architects and other forms of how the public sector can get involved in these things. we assume that we have the regulatory authority, and almost nothing else. the other challenge, and i think you alluded to it, is places like mission bay, part of the reason for their sterility is not just that the plan isn't quite working the way we had all hoped. but because it was all new. it was all built and relatively short period of time. i mean, the places -- i actually -- my concern about

places like vancouver are that same problem. if people hold vancouver as a model for great urban development, they've done some extraordinarily good things there. but part of the issue with vancouver is because it was built so much of it was built in such a short period of time, using the same basic paradigm of the towers and the townhouses, that it becomes a little sterile, frankly, in my opinion. and so i -- there are challenges like that that we have here. but i think the thing about soma, if i can get back to the idea here, is that it is in fact -- it's history is one of great diversity. right? i'm like any other part of the -- unlike any other part of the city. what other part of the city do you have these impact residential enclaves in the middle of blocks that have warehouses and very wide streets? it's a very unusual kind of setup. but i think we should embrace. and i have to say it's not all small scale patterns. south of the freeway, there are huge lots. that are in fact have always been huge lots. and so -- and we do have that

challenge of if we are going to accommodate any kind of reasonable growth in the city, we are going to have to grapple with this issue that in some of these places, large lots are inevitable. and i -- and we are -- i completely agree that the issue of lot aggregation is an issue. and i don't disagree that we should try to figure out a way, and we are -- we are taking small steps in that. but i also think that we have to figure out a way to deal with large footprint development. it's going to happen without us if we don't figure out a way to do it. and anyway, again, he would be great to have a dialogue somehow in a more congenial setting. and one of these great spaces that renee was talking about. >> show up at the same time. >> yes, it would be great to have a discussion in a different forum. but we will continue as we are.

commissioner antonini. commissioner antonini: thank you. i think the theme or i keep hearing about in our discussion is the large lot problem and how we're going to handle this. scompf course i agree with commissioner -- and of course i agree with commissioner martinez that sometimes even though we vary the heights, we vary setbacks and try to make them look individualized, it doesn't work. but it probably works better than the alternative of having a block building of all the same height and all the same pattern. and maybe it can be sculpted in a way with a little bit more care to make these individual parts of a development especially if it has finite parts. this is a very small development, broderick place, which is over on fell. and i think they did a really good job with that. not just because architecturally it fits in really well with the neighborhood. but also the finite parts of it, even though it's a little bit auto centric, it still has

the smaller market. and the deli and the residential parts. and it's really not a bad place to even walk around. even though much of it is automotive. but i think it can be done. the or thing we talked about -- the other thing we talked about earlier is not calling attention to yourself is the individual building that instead of addressing the neighborhood, is addressing itself. and this is a problem we've had. it's not that everything has to blend with everything else. but i mean, prior to just the mid part of the last century, things always did sort of fit for one reason or another in with the neighborhoods in which they were built. and maybe if we can figure out how to make that happen again a little bit more through architecture, suggestions, or whatever we do. one of the most successful place sincere hays valley. -- successful places is hays

valley. we got rid of the freeway there. and, you know, it would be really nice if south of market could return to its form being before there was a freeway going through. that's never going to happen regrettably unless we do a big dig like boston did. and even though the blocks were always very large blocks, there was more of a pattern than you had this big roadway cutting through the middle with all the supportive approach lanes and everything that have to support it. but that being said, i think we can make some progress somewhere. last sunday, i went with my daughter and we were -- she was looking at places to live. and we went out in the western addition in the webster area and like one street where it's a smaller street, and it's so pleasant. and then you get on to gathery or webster where they widened -- geary or webster where they widened it and it takes the pleasantness out of the neighborhood. i think that's going to be difficult.

but if there is a way to somehow break blocks up a little bit, and create mid block crossings and more finite parts of the neighborhoods, it will make it a lot more pleasant. so those are my main things. and maybe we can take glues from other older cities to see what they have done in areas that are being redeveloped. >> thank you. commissioner chase. >> very briefly. because i know time is short. i want to thank director wolfram for bringing up the issue about large lots. because i think it has to do with the whole nature of how historically the city has had those in certain areas of south of market. and how do we capitalize on that? how do we allow that to become a form generator that helps offset in some ways the

pressure of areas of some of these alleys that have a much finer grain, smaller lot size potentially, residential in nature. they may not remain residential. but to be able to help create that notion of a much more pedestrian friendly area because the streets are narrower. because the sidewalks are narrower. because the sense of being in those places are much more friendly to an individual walking down the street. as opposed to what happens on fulsome street. which is in the morning, in the afternoon, short of gridlock, is you know a pretty scary place. and how can both planning in terms of what happens on private lots, private development, and working within the public right of way to allow the evolution of these streets to become more

hospitable. i think that we have -- we have a larger job in terms of how we move people through the city. but how in that movement do we make it less threatening to those of us who live in areas of high density and access ways to freeways? thank you. >> thank you. commissioner sugaya. commissioner sugaya: yes, i want to say something and get myself into trouble again. because the whole conversation i think up here anyway has been around what the city and the planning department and the historic preservation commission staff and commissioners, can do. and we've all made comments about various observations. but all from a perspective of regulatory matters. i mentioned incentives as something that we should take a look at, etc. but, you know, the other part of the equation is the private sector. and the developers and their designers and architects and

that bring this stuff to us. and that we then have to react to a lot of times. and so i don't want to put all the onus on the city for the direction of south of market or the direction of any of the neighborhoods in the city or even in the region. and i think that's where the a.i.a. comes in. and other organizations like that. so thank you. >> commissioner moore. commissioner moore: in defense, i think the department has created a number of really good plans which have stake and are creating a common vision. and we are over time seeing three dimensional results, for example, in the market-octavia plan. there are some remarkable results but the people have stuck together, and we have used our power to create pushback to developers wanting certain things which are not really within the core philosophy of those plans. i do think as we continue to refine tools, better streets,

and as the department is doing other things, it's trying to develop other additional guidelines which hopefully will bridge the understanding between professionals and people wanting to build as well as us and other commissioners in the public at large that we have a better common language to create good critique and good incentives. i think it's in the misunderstanding of what is good and what is not so good, where we are not all standing together to do better. there are other cities who have a much more clear language and pushback about what they really do want and don't want. i look at new york's planning commission. i think they're quite powerful. at least in the discussion of high-rise buildings. to rein in what they don't want. we are quite timid and none of us are high-rise designers here but also not giving the right guidance to things which need a little guidance. i won't mention any project

where i felt there's guidance missing. so i will not get into -- get in marjorie's a.i.a. clients into any trouble. but i think there are dialogues where more pushback could have created better results. however, as a city, i think we still have a lot to lose and today's presentation was one of them where we need to basically peel back the layers of opportunities which still are there. but we need to be stronger about putting them into our con -- conceptual thinking. and one thing which we often are forced to do by the nature of the fast-moving approval process, we are forced to think in fragments. we are not allowed to think comprehensively. we are not allowed to meet as a group because that is against the sunshine ordinance. and i believe that we all would add and bring more to it if we

could step back and look at a problem in a larger context. but again, the nature of how we do things doesn't allow us to do that. and i strongly encourage us to use tools as they were shown today including some other opportunities we talked about earlier to do that more. that includes the discussion with the historic preservation commission. because i do not want to just read your recommendation two minutes before we make a decision. but i like to really think about what you think in order to do it better. >> thank you. i believe that's it for commissioner comments. i want to ask if either staff or renee in particular has any closing thoughts. and then maybe some subset of us, not to violate the brown act, can have a conversation in the hallway or in another forum that's a little bit more friendly, i think than this room. >> not a quorum. >> not a quorum. >> i have to go. pardon me. i thought we were going to be

out. >> it means that the quorum is -- >> ok. so let's adjourn the meeting. >> we will adjourn the meeting. >> thank you. >> ok. thank you, everyone. we will adjourn the meeting. but then we can continue informally. >> informally. >> we might be able to continue just discussing, you have no ability to make any changes or anything as a body. >> i might recommend just some closing statements either from staff or renee and then i think we can leave this structure. >> i have one minute of comments. steve worth on department staff, thank you all for being here for this presentation. i work in the central corridor plan. i just want to speak on behalf that i regret that all the 18 months' work we've only been able to present one commission a brief amount of time. maybe half an hour each and have conversation.

many of the issues that have been raised here we have thought about thoroughly. we have a new south park plan already for south of market. we have mint block crossings. basically every block. we have protections for the small lots. we have ways to make the large lots break up to complete many of the alleys that are incomplete or stumped alleys and we have put a lot of thought around these plans. that being said we are starting the e.i.r. process this summer. we're going to have a long time to talk about this plan while the e.i.r. goes on. i welcome conversations obviously individually. with each and every one of you. myself and my colleagues on this plan and so i just want to put that invitation out to continue the conversation as we go forward. and i'm very excited to have renee's input and hopefully continued dialogue on the input that she makes -- put forward. because i agree with commissioner borden that we have an opportunity to both enhance what goes on in soma or destroy it. and obviously everyone wants to enhance it and we have to be very careful about what we do. thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you all very much.

i'm a big believer probably because i come from the education side. there's not really metrics that make a city but trs the dialogue to -- but it is the dialogue. so thank you. >> thank you very much. with that, the meeting is adjourned. >> thank you.

♪ >> welcome to hamilton recreation and aquatics center. it is the only facility that has an integrated swimming pool and recreation center combined. we have to pools, the city's water slide, for little kids and those of you that are more daring and want to try the rockslide, we have a drop slide. >> exercises for everybody.

hi have a great time. the ladies and guys that come, it is for the community and we really make it fun. people think it is only for those that play basketball or swim. >> i have been coming to the pool for a long time now. it is nice, they are sweet. >> in the aquatics center, they are very committed to combining for people in san francisco. and also ensuring that they have public safety. >> there are a lot of different personalities that come through here and it makes it very exciting all the time. they, their family or teach their kids have a swim.

>> of the gem is fantastic, there is an incredible program going on there, both of my girls have learned to swim there. it is a fantastic place, check it out. it is an incredible indication of what bonn dollars can do with our hearts and facilities. it is as good as anything you will find out why mca. parents come from all over. >> there are not too many pools that are still around, and this is one-stop shopping for kids. you can bring your kid here and have a cool summer. >> if you want to see some of the youth and young men

throughout san francisco play some great pickup games, come wednesday night for midnight basketball. on saturdays, we have a senior lyons dance that has a great time getting exercise and a movement. we have all the music going, the generally have a good time. whether it is awkward camp or junior guard. >> from more information, visit >> thank you for coming this morning. my name is bob hayden. i am with the department of the environment and pleased to be the emcee of this event. you can tell from the display

that this has something to do with some electric vehicles. so, i would like to start the program with our first presenter. and introduce to you a man who is certainly no stranger to bringing clean technology to san francisco and electric vehicles, are mayor, ed lee. [applause] >> thank you, bob. >> you for your leadership. good morning, everyone. we are going to be talking about something that i have been very interested in, and that is mobility. the ability to have technology work for you, like this microphone. we have worked hard for a number of years.

i had the privilege of working with gavin newsom in the past to during his administration to create the electric vehicle infrastructure for the city and began the conversation and the collaboration with the other counties to bring an electric vehicle corridor. it signals our efforts to support the creation of infrastructure to the electric vehicle industry. of course we have encouraged the private automobile creators to join us. today is a wonderful opportunity to do that with a bmw.

any of you who noticed the labels in this city, you will certainly noticed the popularity of bmw as a corporation, not only a great company but one that is also on the cutting edge of the use of technology. i want to thank them and welcome them to not only the electric vehicle stage, which they have been working on, but also to this great program they are about to introduce, the drive now and park now technology. joined -- joining us in the car sharing program for their members who want to use bmw products. this idea of cars sharing has been a part of san francisco's objective in creating a more sharing economy. like many other cities, we are congested in our parking. parking is really a challenge in

the city. for people who own vehicles, and introducing people to car- sharing programs and ideas have been a wonderful experiment for us. as you know, we have been working to create not only public garages but also in congested neighborhoods. when a private company like bmw registers their interest in car- sharing, that is a complement to the direction we are heading to be morris -- more sustainable. i want to think bmw for being here. we are in negotiations to get us into our fleet so we can utilize. unless we do it with the latest technology, people will not appreciate the mayor driving a bmw. [laughter]

but we are doing it for the right reasons. i want to showcase that as we lead this country into a thought process, a challenge that our major cities, our urban settings can have solutions to our parking problems, have sustainable mobility as part of our alternatives in the vehicles and car-sharing as a principle for us to join our automobile makers as well as our vehicle owners and rentals as we challenge the public to say there are better choices coming forward with our partners in the industry. thank you, bmw. i know that ian and his team are here to announce this thing but i wanted to thank our environmental divisions, our car enthusiasts, our technology.

we are the innovation capital of the world. clearly there is a major role for our manufacturers to use that technology to figure out and provide solutions to our parking challenges, to the affordability and everybody to participate so that they can use all of the different modes of travel to get not only around the city, but the bay area. we wish you have this as an opportunity to challenge all of the county's to get from, whether it is ma [ -- napa to oakland in all of the events we will host in years to come and have that mobility in all of the alternative ways of doing it and to do it smartly. i appreciate to bmw for this i appreciate to bmw for this opportunit