which you have seen, a department general order which states it is inappropriate, and the testimony that you heard about the fact that such a time card would not be appropriate, and testimony that the time card clearly was not appropriate. i know we will argue about the merits in a little bit, but we would suggest there has been ample evidence to support the specifications. there is no specific claim of insufficiency. perhaps it would be better to consider this motion when you consider the merits. i hope that is useful. if there are questions, i would be happy to answer. commissioner turman: i just have a point of clarification. as i read your motion,

inspector, it is titled "a motion to dismiss," because you believe the department has not presented a preponderant of the evidence. is that correct? the department has not submitted enough evidence. >> if you read through all the hearing transcripts, if you read through the closing arguments and my rebuttal, after mr. heckler was fired because the chief said his written closing argument did not commit -- did not meet department standards, dr. marshall, gave a second opportunity which i believe was an unfair advantage, because i had already submitted my written closing argument. we were entitled to another five

pages. hopefully, you guys have read through all of that. to go over in the search warrant -- this is an illegal search warrant to begin with. this is a student journalist that was best friends with a homicide victim. he was at the scene. he witnessed this person getting killed. he invoked the shield law in talking to me and my partner. two tenants of the unit insisted on doing a search warrant. i told them the only way we would get this thing was through voluntary cooperation. commissioner turman: you are arguing your case. i think i understand where you are going. i just wanted to make sure i have the procedural understanding. >> i still have a little bit of time left. i know i did not use my five minutes.

i would like to cover the rest of it. vice president marshall: i do not want to to argue the case. how much time? >> 3 minutes and 16 seconds. he has a minute and 44. >> specifications 2, 3, and 4 deal with a he-said, she-said, regarding the search warrant. i called a lieutenant, who was at home. he was the day watch captain. i was on my day off, serving the search warrant. i called him to notify him the search warrant had been served. i told him i was already off duty, and was going to get a day watch inspector to book the evidence. he said fine. that was done. all of a sudden, they turn around and bring me up on charges saying that was not what the lieutenant had said.

he had put out memos regarding, "save money, save over time." i was just following instructions. specification three, i supposedly told inspector delahunte that the lieutenant think i make too much overtime. i would never make a statement like that. specification number four, supposedly we are in a meeting with lt. spillaine, and all of a sudden a door was open and he overheard this conversation? specification five is regarding and over -- an overtime card that was rejected. it was a phone call that i had

received from the inspector regarding the homicide case. i put in the card. the department had an informal policy that had been going on for years. if you are off duty and get a phone call, you can support a card. it is like the court telephone standby system. vice president marshall: thank you. we are going to make a ruling on this motion in closed session. commissioner loftus: i have one question. did i hear you say you were following the memo about the reduction in overtime when you made the decision to ask lt. delahunty to complete the report and book the evidence? is that what you said? >> when i was on the phone, i reminded him i was off duty when

i was serving the search warrant. i said i would have somebody on duty book the evidence and write the report. i asked inspector delahunty. commissioner loftus: i just want to make sure that is consistent with what you said previously. >> i was on the phone. commissioner loftus: i read it. but i thought i heard to say something different. i am glad i asked the question to clarify. vice president marshall: >> he had four attorneys, and then hacker gets kicked out again. >> we are back from a closed session.

vice president marshall: i remember that. a letter from peter king. >> we are back in open session. you have a quorum. >> john alden, for the department. >> inspector frank lee, representing myself. vice president marshall: the commission has been liberated. the motion to dismiss for insufficient evidence is denied by a vote of 5-0. proceed with the hearing, i guess is what it is. let me set the parameters. five minutes for mr. alden, five minutes for mr. lee. we have the transcripts.

we have read everything. you first, mr. alden. >> as i think you know, i have the disadvantage of coming to this case late in the process. that said, there is an important theme throughout this case. the inspector, when he came to the homicide unit, had become an inspector who liked to do things his own way, chafed at having other people tell him how to do things, and expected a significant amount of overtime. he was not able to accomplish those goals. he had to work with a team and was given instructions that were different than the way he might have wanted to do things himself. in part because of puckers supervision of overtime in that unit and department cutbacks in overtime in general, he was not able to incur the overtime he wanted to. unfortunately, his response was to become increasingly obstinate with his superiors and to refuse to comply with their orders, and

to begin pushing the envelope on collecting over time, to the point where he committed dgo violations and began to be dishonest. the refusal to serve a warrant as directed -- there is no question there were six days between the time the warrant was obtained and the time the inspector executed a warrant. there is ample testimony that a deputy chief, captain, and lt. repeatedly ordered him to serve the warrant straight away. we know the decision to seek a warrant was reached after a round table meeting with many members of homicide and the d.a.'s office, and others. while he disagreed with the decision, one reason was that all agreed, other than inspector lee, that it be executed immediately. he was disobeying orders from

superior officers. once he got to the scene of executing the warrant, he told the acting lt., delahunty, that he had been told by lieutenant stasko that he had incurred to much overtime and it should go home. he says the opposite. it is the standard in homicide, so that story is highly credible. it is also clear the inspector lee was unhappy with the warrant. he did not appreciate that others explain to him that he had failed to provide a copy of the warrant to the people at the house, and really got on him to make sure it is accomplished, as they should, because it is a constitutional requirement. he was also upset because he got a call from the person who was the subject of the search warrant. it was clear he was frustrated and wanted to leave.

that led him to lie to one of his superiors about why he was leaving the scene. specification three is a read it -- a reiteration of specifications one and two. we know inspector lee represene conversation he had with the lieutenant. there has been a lot of argument about what the overtime policies were an should have been in homicide. none of that is relevant to the specification. the only thing important to this specification is that it, frankly, put things into the memo that were not part of the conversation that he an inspector spillane had. for example, he claimed that the overtime was approved. that is false. he talked about the work to be shifted to the economy over time. the fact is, the lieutenant did not talk about this policies at all in any fashion, so this

representation was also false. finally, there was a claim by inspector lee that he told lt. spillane that those were against policy and that the lieutenant threatened him. that never occurred. that said, this is consistent with the frustration with the believed he was not getting as much overtime as he was used to, and the fact that he said that memo up to the captain instead of back to the lieutenant as ordered showed that he was using this memo as a tool to get back at or punish people. that explains a lot about his behavior, and also explains that he put in for two hours of compensation for a five-minute call, which is contrary. if you have any questions, i would be happy to entertain

them. there is a lot more to talk about. vice president marshall: thank you. >> ok, the first specification was charging with repeatedly failing to follow the search warrant. the search warrant was served within the appropriate time. the california penal code said 10-day period should be deemed as timely executed, and no further sean of timeliness need be made -- no further proof of timeliness may be made. it was well within the statutory limit. my supervisors were aware that the search warrant could not be served immediately because alex was in hiding. this was a person who witnessed the homicide. he was told to stay out of the

city. he did not give us any contact information. we did not know where he was at. i had his attorneys contact information, but he was told to stay out of the state. the coke deal mob has been known to kill a lot of people, -- the oakdale mob has been known to kill a lot of people. also, the dna evidence and searching the vehicle, i was trying to coordinate all of that when on april 27, which was my day off, that is when the lieutenant asked me if the search warrant had been served yet, and i said no, and he said he wanted the search warrant served, and he and the deputy chief were concerned that the search warrant had not been served, so i said ok, even though i was off. i contacted another, and we were

trying to get outside to help, but they were not available, so i got three homicide inspectors from the swing watch him to go sit on alex wslsh's -- walsh's residents, and i made three telephone calls, and i told them, "i am already of duty, on overtime, trying to save over time, get the watch people, not to watch people but the inspectors on duty to book the evidence and to write the report, so that is what happened, and, supposedly, this next allegation, supposedly i told an inspector that they think i make you a much overtime and i should go home. i never made that statement to him. the sergeant claims that i repeated that statement to him,

and we have this tape interviews. we have those transcripts. it is not in there. i never made that statement. and specification number three, i guess it is charging me with unprofessional behavior for lying to the inspector about the directions provided, so those are the allegations. it is a he said/she said -- he said/he said. the interviews were recorded. they were transcribed. and then there was the closed- doors meeting i had with lieutenant spillane, and he was trying to tell me to put my over time cards on the back and. you cannot do that, changing hours to put in for overtime. the lieutenant tells me that the day watch, they switched their

hours, so they are trying to deny me over time by telling me to switch my hours. they are allowing the day inspectors to do that. i told them that i have worked every other unit, and no supervisor has told me to switch my hours. whenever our as you work, that is your over time, and that is what it is. and i did it, and they charged me with the specifications. supposedly, what they are saying, to make it a two-on one, the inspector conveniently over here's the conversation, this supposed conversation regarding overtime policies, which was never discussed i will go specifically to specification number five. ever since i've been in the bureau since 1999, inspectors that are off duty, especially

from the department of operations, a two-hour cards. the lieutenant approved the card prior. do you want me to continue? vice president marshall: i am going to allow two minutes, and then you can come back for two minutes. any more time? >> thank you for the additional time, commissioners. before i start, are there any specific questions anybody wants me to address? vice president marshall: you can do that later. >> thank you. i want to discuss the execution of the search warrant. there has been a discussion on whether the execution of the search warrant was a smart move and whether it was

appropriately obtained by a judge, in that the judge granted the search warrant. none of those cases are relevant. the only thing that is relevant is that they ordered him to serve fourth wet and he refused over the course of a week. if he thought that the search warrant was on lawfully obtain or invalid, it's possible we states that he could have written a memo, saying, "i believe the search warrant is illegal and should not be executed." we do not allow officers to make decisions about what court orders they are going to follow and which ones they do not. if they have a court order, they must follow it. if they have a problem with it, they can report it, but they still have to follow it. that is not what he did. he did not do anything that said he thought the search warrant was illegal. at the time, he just said he

thought it was a bad strategic decision. at that time, it was not his call. it was his supervisors call. so i hope the commissioners are not distracted. the only question that is relevant to the insubordination allegation is did the inspector follow the order, and, obviously, he chose not to for a substantial period of time and did a very poor and resisted job of executing on the order. thank you. vice president marshall: two minutes. >> i never refused to serve a search warrant. i was waiting for the opportune time to serve the. they never gave me a direct order that said, "i want it served by the state and this time people i have served over 50 search warrants, over 250 arrest warrants at people's houses.

the lead investigator makes those determinations. you listen to your lieutenants. you follow the directions. but he never said, "i want the search warrants served by 10:00 today." when he told me that he and the deputy chief were unhappy that the search warrant had not been served, i then took that as a direct order to serve it. i did not tell anybody that i would serve it. i did say that i did believe the search warrant was illegal, that the student journalists is protected by the law, and this is all going to get quashed, and it did get quashed. so that is as far as specification one. to serve a search warrant but in 10 days -- warrant within 10 days. the suspect was in hiding. ibis tried to get it all coordinated. i was going to do it in the next

day or two when i came back to work. so i never refused. counts two, three, and four, it is basically a he said/he said. since the department when i first became an inspector, our job was about notifications to other inspectors. the tenants would also come in and say if you make a notification, make sure to put in a card. the policy has always been to put in a two-hour card when you put in a call, because you get compensated for working off- duty. you listen to a tape for five minutes, you get two hours' compensation. i respectfully request that the commission dismissed these allegations.

vice president marshall: thank you. commissioners, questions? commissioner turman: my problem is that you have said repeatedly denied -- >> i cannot hear you. commissioner turman: you have said several times tonight, "he said/he said." i am going to talk. you are going to listen. you said that repeatedly. i understand that. this commission has to face all of the time the people say different things. people are on opposite sides of a case. our job sometimes means that we have to make a credibility fighting. who do we believe in that particular situation, so he said/he said, this is the problem i have with what you say he said he said.

the first thing i asked you tonight, you launched into a discussion on the merits of the case, and you started talking about this, and the first things that lead from your mouth was how this search warrant was illegal and how you had issues and problems with it, not, sir, not that i do not definitely believe that is the place, but there is a process when you believe the search warrant is an issue, because you still are mandated to serve it, so now i am hearing in never had a problem with serving it, but the very first thing you presented to this commission is how illegal it was. i understand that, but what i have a problem with is it is a hard position to now come back and say, "i never had a problem with serving it."

especially when the first thing you say to address it is how you read the it is and how bogus it is. do you understand what my position is? >> a lot of times in the police department, we do things we do not want to do. sometimes we do not want to go to demonstrations, or we do not want to stand in line, but we do because we were given an order to do it. regarding what if you disagree, you can verbally advise your supervisors, and then you go and carry out with the order. you can still disagree and put it into a memo form. that is optional. i advise the lieutenant spillane that the search warrant on alex was not going to fly, but i never told him, "i am not going to serve it." i did not prepare the search warrant. another inspector prepared it. commissioner turman: annie waited a week to serve it.

>> alex was in hiding. after the judge signed it. six days after the judges find it, you have 10 days to serve it under the penal code. -- six days after the judge signed it, it was served six days after, you have 10 days to service under the penal code. commissioner turman: and then you rushed out and served it. >> yes, i did, because i took as an order to serve it. commissioner: how long have you been with the department? >> i have been with the department for 25 years. i also want to tell you that idea that no prior discipline, except years ago, i received a reprimand that was sealed for an automobile accident. i have a meritorious conduct reward, over 150 complementary,

two commendations, and i just received something that was signed off by chief suhr. vice president marshall: i guess that comes to -- >> yes, i am constrained by the time limits. we were given a limited time to sleep -- to speak. commissioner: what i am getting, from what i've seen and accommodations that i have read and the packet that we have, there are a number of combinations. -- of accommodations. you have 25 years? >> 25 years. commissioner: i want to be really clear with you that an officer that has served in the way that you have served for 25

years, who distinguished himself by making it to the ranks of the homicide division, too, until this body, and i can speak as a former prosecutor, that it is ok to wait six days when there is an open homicide case to serve a search warrant where there is evidence that could help solve that crime is really hard to figure out given your statement that you met concerns about the search warrant, so i would like to hear from you. i2 about whether you are really making that argument before the commission that it was ok in your experience, in your 25 years experience on the force, that you just got around to it in six days, that it was never on the back burner, that you never did not want to do what did attend it wanted you to do. >> i never put it on the back burner. the inspector, after he went out to get a description of the location on 11th avenue, he had

to write a description of the search warrant. he actually talked to the next- door neighbor and a business card. the inspector gave a name, and he spoke to him, and he said if he saw alex, he was going to call us, because he knew where he was, outside the city in an undisclosed location. commissioner: but when you search the house, he was not there either, so that ultimately was not the reason. >> when he and the deputy chief said they were upset that it was not served, i took it as a direct order to go serve it now, not 10 minutes from now, so i went to go and serve it, and i got the assistance of the swing watch homicide inspectors, and they told us there was movement. we did not get everything that was requested for this search warrant because alex, having to get dna swabs, we did not