>made -- most ofmade.>> most of- mr. lepky for observation. >> president hwang: is that it? >> about it. everything else we took care of very well. i wrote reports and took photographs and posted them on the internet. >> president hwang: so comparing the project you did and you consulted on mr. lee's property and compared to the property at issue here, are you operating -- do you have comparable conditions? are you advising in the exact same manner as you would have over there? >> it's about the same technically. there's a difference, i can tell you in a minute what it is. >> president hwang: okay. >> on the other project it was a top-down project. there was no way to go in from the side because there was 23, 24 feet of sand against i call him keith. i can't pronounce his name --

against keith's building there was 23, 24 feet of sand and it was right against his building and his foundation was not deep. so we had to shore, from not going underneath this building, we shored from the side, using grout. it was a much more difficult process, that was. the other project, the new project, is a tunnel. and it presents new type of things, but it doesn't come near keith's property. it just doesn't come near his house. there's a concrete staircase between his house and the garage. it's not going to be disturbed. so we're not even coming within that three foot staircase. >> president hwang: thank you. i got the picture. >> one is top-down, the other is side-in. >> president hwang: thank you. >> anything else? >> vice president fung: got a question for ms. dick. you indicated in your brief that

the structural design documents and -- were available for the appellant's review? >> my understanding that they were always made available. there was an effort -- fngetsz >> vice president fung: so by inference a copy was not given to them. >> i think ask questions, if you want to let us know. they didn't. i have people prior to me but we're available to ask. >> vice president fung: was the final design provided to them or not? >> the whole set right here. >> provided august 15. >> vice president fung: provided august 15? >> yeah. it was the approved set. correct? >> the latest set. >> does that answer your question? >> vice president fung: yes. >> we can hear from the department, mr. snyder, do you want to go first?

>> president hwang, commissioners, good evening, dan snyder with the planning department. very briefly to frame this from a planning perspective, this is an as of right project. no neighborhood notice was required. it is code compliant. the issues you heard raised by appellant is on construction methodology, seismic issues. if you're inclined i would be more than happy to cede my remaining time to my colleagues at the building department who would speak to it with measure accuracy. >> vice president fung: no planning department notification was required. >> correct. absolutely no section 311 or 312 notification, no planning commission notification, from our department. >> good evening, commissioners.

patrick o'reardon, dbi. i won't even begin to speak to the complexities of the engineering involved with this project but it is complex and it does involve means and methods or personaliation grouting and tunneling, shoring, having to do with creating this additional basement space. so i did visit the site yesterday just to get an idea of what the -- was and what everything looked like, and reviewed the drawings. and i did note that the drawings showed the personaliation grouting to be within the property at 2865 vil ahoe and didn't show an encroach onto 2875 vallejo. no work was going on to this permit which was suspended anyway. today, i visited with our dbi engineering plan check folks.

david pang happens to be on vacation all week so i spoke with his supervisor, robert chun. and he reviewed the documents before you here tonight. and it was his opinion that the review, having to do with this work, was appropriate. and he didn't see that there were any missteps with the review from the dbi perspective. i also noted that 22 special inspections are relating to this scope of work, which include items relating to the structure as well as the geotechnical aspects of the construction. so we will be doing our dbi inspections, as necessary for the construction, when it is underway. and we will also be requiring those special inspections to be submitted to us with letters of

certification, final letters at the end of the work and we will not sign off any approvals for the project until we have approved those certification letters and we're happy that everything is being monitored throughout the course of the work. so i believe that dbi also sent out notification to the adjacent building owners, as i understand it, it's a notification of a structural addition to the building owners on the adjacent properties as well as the three properties behind this property at 2865 vallejo. i'm available for any questions. >> thank you. is there any public comment on this item? seeing none, then, sir, aren't you an employee or a paid consultant of the appellant?

so you can speak under his remaining time but you can't speak under public comment. we are moving into rebuttal now. so the appellant, you have three minutes. >> we'd like to have mr. -- speak to you about the engineering side of this. but let me correct one thing. there was a comment about a stairway. we had a stairway between this work and my house, we wouldn't have any problems with the project. the stairway only goes back as far as the garage. from the end of the garage, it's all new excavation and there's nothing to keep -- it will be going right by my house. the wall is going to be three feet from each side wall, and the geogrout goes within one foot now. previously it went right to the line. now they're saying it will miraculously stop one foot from the line, even though it's liquid. and they also have that in their exhibit showing -- you can see, maybe he can point that out. thank you very much.

>> thank you. my name is ryan heart ludky. i'd like to answer one question that was asked about the other project. when we looked at the other project which was 2881 which was last year we reviewed the calculations and found -- ill say errors in the calculations or mistakes for design of the shoring. we talked to the design engineer and he modified the design to provide the proper strength for shoring of the excavation. that was part of my objective, and the service that i provide to keith on this job. when we got the project in mid-august, we met with the contractor. once he heard that he had the permit we asked for the drawings, we asked for the calculations. respect dbi and dbi and the people that do the plan checking. i got a copy of the calculations and a copy of the shoring plans.

you could not connect them. and i been in this profession for a very long time, almost 40 years. so that was number one. we couldn't make a connection with a bunch of computer -- but you couldn't tie the computer output to the plans. also, we did not have any drawings that illustrated the -- grouting. we met with the geogrout, and he showed us the plan this he had in mind. in the package that the attorneys put together, exhibit e, that shows the grouting for the gmi as proposed, mr. carp said that it's four foot six away, well it's four foot six away from his property line near the back near the elevator lobby but adjacent, very close to his house, for i think 30 feet, near the house. so there's some misrepresentation. so i did subsequent to the filing of the appeal, i did have

a conversation with the engineer that did the calculations. there were -- it's not perfect, but i understood it but i had to walk it through with him. maybe mr. pang did the same thing. the only way for me to understand was talk to the engineer that made the calculations and make a connection between the information that owe on the shoring plan. so the whole point is that it's high risk. i'm here to help mr. keith understand the risk and protect his property. so thank you. >> vice president fung: mr. ludky, i did not see, in your letter any indication of concern over the calculations. >> i couldn't understand the calculation. >> vice president fung: no. but you have reviewed it now with the structural engineer that designed -- >> it's not perfect. there are overstresses in some of the members. but that's not -- i'm not going to -- i don't think it's appropriate to get into those details. it's not perfect, but it's

better -- you know, it's adequate. i'll say that. it seems to be adequate. >> vice president fung: thank you. >> i have a question also. there was a statement that i had that if this geogrouting were to travel that it actually could be a benefit. could you discuss that. >> i think it's subjective. keith has probably some geogrout underneath the west side of his house from the 2881 project because that was adjacent to his property. if you have differential soil along the length of the property which it's going to entd up which think some of the foundation may have strengthened soil by the -- grouting, some of his foundation under his house may not. the question is how it's going to behave in a an earthquake with differential materials under the house, i can't predict what would happen. but i think if all the construction is successfully executed, then all of the soil that's underneath his foundation will be restrained by the

adjacent foundations and retaining walls and drainage if everything is properly built. my point of view in my recommendation to keith is it's a very high risk construction. we have done some due diligence talking to other geotechnical engineers that's had experience with these contractors. nobody's perfect. it depends a lot on who's doing the work. i told keith we would -- again, i understand what dbi said. having continued inspection, having people pay attention every step of the way what's going on would be highly desirable, especially in the shoring and excavation procedure because even the contractor says that personaliation grouting is not perfect. sometimes they find problems so they have to address the problems during excavation. if the material was further away from the property, that would be less of a concern. i -- good construction, so that was my advice to keith. all right?

>> we can take rebuttal from the permit holder. >> i'll try to briefly answer mr. ludky's points. he talks about unnamed geotechnical consultants. if they have, i haven't heard of them. he mentioned no names. this process that we went through is very sophisticated, as a design -- in design. the reviewer was david pang of dbi, who's very, very good engineer, who is a very, very good engineer. the gentleman here keep talking about geogrout. geogrout is a company that looked at the project a year ago, for a different structural engineer, mersa in oakland. they are not involved in the project. we chose -- or the specialty subcontractor chose another contractor with bigger, better

equipment, that is less seat of the pants type of work, it's electronic, it's very sophisticated. and it's the injection of a very fine -- cement. there's no chemicals involved because of the epa rules. and water. and it's like randy said, if you go to the beach, you excavate sand. at first, it's moist and it will stand up. it's moist and it will stand up. as soon as it dries, it starts to fall apart. so by turning it into this weak concrete or some people call it sandstone you do away with that. the process involves a grid of four foot six on center, not from the property line. at four foot six on center, there's a nozzle that's stuck down and there's a group of people that are trained nozzlemen. there's dials on their machine -- on the top of the

rod. the hoses, the exact pressure, how much grout goes into the cement. it's a very safe process. all the trees -- major trees above the grouting process, they're all going to be preserved. we have an arborist, a very sophisticated operation that's going to take place. and these nozzlemen who do the work are very experienced, and there's two of them for each -- one of them watches the dials, the pressure, the amount of water, the amount of cement, the mixture, then there's two or three people on the truck, there's people operating the hoses. it just -- it's way beyond what these gentlemen think it is. they just don't know. but dbi knows because they approved these kind of projects all the time. and it's a safety measure -- some people try to excavate in

sand without any shoring and that's when you'll have movement. but when you turn the sand into sandstone you don't have the movement. it's very expensive, very expensive. but that's the -- we're going through. thank you. anything else? any questions? >> thank you. >> thank you. >> any rebuttal from the departments? okay. commissioners, the matter is yours. >> vice president fung: well, commissioners, the question is whether the department erred in issuing this permit. and what has been brought up is questions related to potential

risk. i'd rather use that term. it's difficult to assess exactly what the risk is. the problem with underground is that it's not always consistent. and that runs from the borings that are done on a spot basis, limited basis, usually, to ascertain what the profiles are is one thing. however, most people would design these with a great deal of conservativism and i think that's probably what not only the engineers but the department reviewing it. looking at the appellant's letters related to their analysis of the situation, i would say that their concerns are what is potential risk, and

less so with a serious deficiency or error made in this particular either design or the issuance of the permit. i'm surprised that one of the things that wasn't brought up is water flow. it was, in one word issued in -- because underground construction like this especially, with this type of grouting, is going to change the water flow, undergroundwater flow in that area. whether it impacts adjacent neighbors or not, it's really hard to determine. but it's a common enough technology these days, it's common enough to use it also for water-proofing purposes when you do certain types of injection. so i think that, at this point,

i do not see anything in the appellant's appeal to warrant that we either condition or seriously review further the permit. >> president hwang: i'm similarly inclined to hold the permit. i think i'm sympathetic that as the neighboring adjacent property owner, you have concerns about this massive and complicated project happening right next to you. and i think, you know, raising those concerns puts them on clear notice that should anything come up that impacts your home, you know, you've -- it's already been discussed. i don't think, however, we have enough before us to undo the

work from the assessment of the department in issuing the permit. >> i appreciate commissioner fung's analysis in the framing it in terms of the potential risk versus any kind of known flaw. and so i would concur. >> vice president fung: i move to uphold the permit and deny the appeal. >> before a roll call, i just wanted to advise everyone in the room the sheriff has asked that we all exit through the grove street side of the building because of the activities outside. >> vice president fung: grove street? >> grove street. >> vice president fung: how do we get there? >> in the basement. >> vice president fung: that's

a long walk. >> exactly. >> thank you. >> we have a motion from the vice president to deny this appeal and uphold the permit. on that motion, president hwang, aye. commissioner hurtado is absent. commissioner lazarus, aye. thank up. 3-0, this permit is upheld. thank you. >> presiden.>> there is no furts before the board. >> president hwang: we're adjourned.

>> san francisco recreation and parks department offers classes for the whole family. rec and parks has a class for everyone. discover what is available now and get ready to get out and play. henri matisse. frida kahlo. andy warhol. discover the next great artist. get out and play and get inspired with toddler classes. experience art where making a mess is part of the process. classes and the size the artistic process rather than the

product. children have the freedom to explore materials at their own pace and in their own way. talks love art, especially when they died into the creative process -- dive into the creative process. at the end of the classes, they have cleaned and washup. of.com great way to get out and play. for more information, visit sfrecpark.org. that out and play and get into the groove. rec and parks offers dance classes for seniors. first-time beginners or lifetime enthusiasts -- all are welcome.

enjoy all types of music. latins also, country and western. it is a great way to exercise while having lots of fun. seniors learn basic moves and practice a variety of routines. improve your posture, balance, and flexibility. it is easy. get up on your feet and step to the beat. senior dance class is from sf rec and park. a great way to get out and play. >> for more information, >> i want to learn more about e-mails, internet. er >> social networking and e-mail. >> i want to know how to use it.

>> the digital divide is essentially the divide between those who have access to these digital tools and those who don't. >> these young people is having computers and i just don't know, they're doing it fast. so, i want to know. >> not knowing how to navigate the internet is at a loss of what to do. >> we don't have a computer. >> we are non-profit that unites organizations and volunteers to transform lives through digital literacy. our big right now is the broadband technology opportunity program, a federally funded project through the department of aging so we're working in 26 locations, our volunteers are

trained to be tutors and trainers offering everything from basic classes all the way to genealogy and job search. >> to me, a computer aon auxiliary brain, it's like knowing how to use your brain, how important is that. i think it's important and possibly seniors, it's important for them to stay in touch. er >> people like facebook or skype so they can connect to their family members or see their family member's albums from far away. >> (speaking spanish).

>> what we like to focus on is transferring skills from volunteer to learner to help them get on to facebook, find housing on craig's list, being able to connect with friends and family. >> i decided teaching them what i knew and that got me into wanting to give back and to learning more and how it works. >> i discover -- i discovered that seniors need a lot of review. >> i am beginner so little by little, i learn a lot now. >> i learned just the basics, if you get the basics, you can learn it, if you don't get the basics, you're lost. >> it's simple, it's easy, once you know it and that's what i want to learn, how to make my life easier and more knowledgeable with a computer. >> so, what we need right now are more people who speak

languages other than english or in addition to english, who can give their time during the day and who care deeply ideally about helping to close the digital divide. >> you know, its's a humbling experience, it could be something simple to us in our daily lives but to someone that doesn't know and to help somebody gain that experience in any way, it's awesome. >> (speaking spanish). >> no matter how tired or cranky or whatever i miekt feel when i walk into this class, i walk out feeling great. >> if you feel comfortable using a cuter and you have patience, we want you on our team. >> with they showed me how to do skype. >> will you help me learn more?