been waiting especially. my apologies. >> but as before you begin i just want to mention to those who are interested in speaking, if you are affiliated with one of the appellant companies you are not allow to speak, your time to speak is under the time a lot to the party. >> good evening, john from the department of public works and mapping. i was unable to provide a brief to the parties because we received the appellant's brief on last thursday. so we didn't know the content of the appeal, specifically. so we have had since gotten a copy of the appeal through the applicant and we have reviewed it and we want to address the concerns that were brought up to this commission, to this board. in this specific case, i think that there is a misnomer under the concept of like foods which

appears to be estimated by the applicant is about the type of food. the applicant sells coffee products espresso specifically. what we have looked at is the composition of the menus, among all of the businesses around in many cases, except for two, which is petes coffee and starbucks, those two companies through the majorty of the revenue through coffee products i don't think that is disputed in any case. in these other cases they do, many of the merchants sell coffee, but also sell other food products throughout the day. so, the evaluation from the hearing office determined that yes, while coffee is one product, it is not the majority of the specific and that is why they need to be deemed not like food. we did go back, based on the concerns to revalidate.

as noted at the 84 second street location. if we take a straight line as the bird flies distance from the location of the proposed food truck, to the entrance of pete's coffee, the distance varies between 219 feet to 244 feet. what that implies someone who is walking from the food truck to pete's coffee would have to jwalk through second street and mission street. whereas if we followed the pedestrian walkway and go through the crosswalk the distance is 350 feet. there is a fairly fine distinction from that perspective that remains to be a challenge from that case. star buck coffee is approximately 243 feet away. we did not receive an objection from starbucks coffee.

if we had received an objection from starbucks coffee, we would be here and most likely to be deemed in this specific case that there are like foods and most likely would have denied a permit at this specific location. just purely based on location? >> purely based on location, per, the director's order. and the information provided, we are looking at the entire composition of the menu, specifically >> let's not go that far yet. >> okay. >> you have standards for how you measure and we had the long discussion previously on those issues. your method of measurement is based upon walking distance and

not by radius, is that not correct. they is indicated a half a dozen to eight restaurants, some of them much closer than starbucks and can you, confirm at this point in the hearing, the location of those with respect to the 300-foot radius? >> i believe, excuse me. in many cases, these dinners and restaurants are within 300 feet. of the proposed food truck, specifically in this, or along second street.

>> yeah. >> at this point we are trying to get the facts. >> yes. >> i would i think that we can go on from that. i see that, you know, from the map supplied by the appellants there are obviously restaurants closer to this location than starbucks. >> that is correct, sir. >> isn't the department's position in this case exactly the opposite of the position that if took with a lot of exotic food, they served coffee from africa and whether that was likes foods with respect to other institutions within the 300 feet? >> that would be correct, commissioner >> how is it distinct this time? how do you reconcile the two decisions by the department?

>> right. in this specific case, based upon the decision by this board, it appears that the department was given specific directions of how it should be evaluated. and based upon that decision, we made this decision. >> okay. >> so you took the instructions from the board from the last hearing. >> that is correct. >> okay. >> and so the timing is and the permit came in with the board's decision. >> that is correct. >> that is helpful. >> thank you. >> okay, now we will take public comment. people interested in speaking, please step forward. president hwang how much time? >> how many speakers? >> okay, three minutes. >> my name is jamie patrick and

i am here with patrick and company in san francisco. i am speaking on behalf of or as a business owner with retail within the second street corridor, property owner. owning four different properties on the second street corridor. as well as a landlord with restaurants within that second street corridor. my family has been operating a business at that location just after the earthquake. and i can tell you every day, i have been working there 15 years, every day, another coffee place opens on that second street corridor. whether they are specifically coffee, or they have or sell other things, from 6:00 in the morning to 10 in the morning their primary business is coffee. and the more that we take away and add businesses such as a coffee cart or a coffee truck,

my fear is that these companies that are paying for property tax, that are paying for high rents are going to go out of business and to me that is a shame. how would someone that only has to pay a small fee and a parking a couple of quarters for parking, how is that fair business practice to those brick and mortar businesses that struggle every day to pay wages, property tax, insurance. so, you know, if we want to talk about a 300-foot radius, you know, there are a few businesses that are actual coffee places that are not being discussed here and one of them is muffin, muffins. they have been there for years and years and they are from within a 300 foot radius and that is what they do is sell coffee and muffins in the morning. to me, i think that we are going in the wrong direction in

terms of coffee carts. we have got, our food trucks, and food trucks are designed to service those areas which are not served by restaurants, and downtown, san francisco, right in the middle, we do not need continuing to approve permits for food trucks. and i have this quick little thing here if i can show it. this is an area that i am sorry the red dots are all places that serve and focus coffee from 6:00 to 10 in the morning. i did not include anything above market street and there are an additional four or five on the market street and second on the north side of market street. so as a business owner, i really oppose another coffee cart in the area. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please and if you have not filled out a speaker card, already. we would appreciate it if you would do so when you come up or

after you speak. >> good evening. >> the appellant's attorney has asked me if the board could double check. she believes that some of paoement that people in line to speak are part of the second street merchants. >> oh,. i am not sure how to check other than to reiterate that that is people associated with the second street merchants and i can name them off if you don't know who they are should not be speaking under public comment, your time is speak is under the time for the appellant. >> does everyone understand that rule. we ask that you honor it, thank you. >> good evening, honorary members of the board my name is monet josen and i own a 711

down the street and nowhere close to second street but i am speaking as a member of the public on this you. and as i 7-11 owner i am very well familiar with the coffee business. this is a second time appearing in front of this board. and the first case i was an appellant, and this board at that point fully recognizes that food trucks in the financial district is detrimental to the existing establishments. first of all about coffee, i would like to tell the board by experience. coffee is a very high margin item. all other products that any restaurant sells, has very high food costs, meats, cheeses, vegetables coffee in a lot of cases does contribute over all

to the profitability to a small restaurant. having said that, i will ask you once again to please consider what is right and what is wrong in realistic terms. as a decision may impact the lively hoods of some of my restaurant owners and we are all operating under the worst economic conditions known to us after the great depression. by over subsidizing food trucks, the city is attempting to can bolize the existing food establishments. that is not what free enterprise stands for. >> the principals of free enterprise that our nation is built upon do not allow blai tant emotion of one side of society at the cost of the other. it is designed to permit an individual to flourish in

business with minimal government intervention. over here, the city is fully involved in pitching one side against the other. my question is, as a city of san francisco willing to breach the basic standards of free enterprise and fair play? >> the city has not conducted any economic survey to the state. to assess the impact that these are likely to have on existing businesses and we are talking about the people's livelihoods to be impacted. and in fact, the applicant, nor any city official can stand here and state that such a facility is not going to impact any existing business at all. and if so, why are we all standing here. please consider these matters,

realistickly and i humblely ask this board to permanently revoke both of these permits. >> thank you. >> next speaker. >> good evening. my name is trevor arnorld, a work a half a block away from the location. i just want to say that i think that it is very convenient for me to be able to pick up a coffee on a street on the way to the office, there actually happens to be a starbucks on the ground floor where there is typically three or four people as late at 9:00 in the morning which is close to where they are closed for business. so clearly there is not a very significant impact there. this often there is quite a long wait for a cup of coffee and other food products there. i felt that they are organized and very clean at that location. that egress is blocked in the

alley and people are very polite and no more than 3 or 4 folks cued up. i don't see how this additional choice of a fine cup of coffee is going to have a detrimental impact to established brick and mortar businesses in the neighborhood. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please? >> good evening. my name is paul ionion and i was also here months ago as an appellant and i am kind of dumb founded that we have to come back here again to deal with the same matter all over again. i own a deli, on california street for the last 35 years. and i have never had to work harder or longer hours to maintain my position and care for my family and be able to pay my rent on time. and last time it was that we

fought two trucks and now it is for espresso. i open 5:00 in the morning and my coffee hours are the same as his proposed hours. i sell coffee for basically 4 hours also from 6 to 10 and a switch over to lunch and catering to be able to survive in the high rent district. i cannot be that i can compete with starbucks or peats. there is a peats across the street and a starbucks down the street and around the corner from me. but my position as well as most of our colleagues position is that we are small operators. we work hard. 35 years of survival having four land lords in the same location, having excuse me, up to them to maintain the rent structure to be able to stay there. we had to sell coffee, we have to sell muffins and catering and all of them, the trucks,

espresso specialized different foods are taking away every day from nickel and dime from all of us. you know, i cannot comprehend how these permits have been issued where they did not exist many, many years ago, it was done right years ago. they are given to the areas where there is a need. around hospitals and schools and construction areas, where or weekends, or you know, where there is the public and yet all of the places are closed. or there is not enough of them. but you come down in the financial district, and our hours are the same, and it does not draw people for retail, because we are just people working in their offices. whereas the last time i remember that we combated people that said, while diversity brings more people to the area. it does not in our area. our area being i am close to 150 california street. i am a half a block away from there, my address is 18 california street. pete' starbucks, tons of place

and multiple places all over the place and to be able to exist further and to continue to make a living, i mean, this has to come to an end, i appeal also to you guys, to, you know, let us have the comfort of competing with one another, in a fair, manner, rather than food trucks with just one permit a year needed to be paid for rather than having to comply with handicapped bathroom and license and taxes. my building taxes alone raised to ten fold. because you know the building just sold for 16 million. when i went in it was 2 million in value and the ground floor operators came down with the rent. >> thank you, your time is up. >> next speaker, please. >> hello, i too am here again,

a lot of time that i spent on working on this issue before and we actually won a couple of permits that were not issued. >> this is a really big topic, not only in san francisco but across the united states and the business owners that pay money for the brick and mortar are up in arms. this is portland, chicago, new york, and i understand that the food truck operator actually lives in berkeley. berkeley does not allow food trucks. they are actually trucking the food in, and trucking the money out. san francisco is not gaining any tax dollars or the magnitude of the money, that is lost by the city sales on brick and mortar are going to go down.

this is lut ris that this is happening in the financial district. i am, personally not against food trucks, bring them to the construction sites. one of the speakers that i had last night was sky line construction. they paid thousands of dollars in construction parking permits. they are pulling cars up and staying there for two hours and then the truck pulls up and it is almost like a sweeper, you know, when it is in the neighborhood, somebody puts the car and they wait for it to come and the same thing, the people are fighting, i know that people are fighting over this. the other thing on the second street issue, there is

currently a huge construction going on. it is going on for a month. all the way down second street. no construction, this is an example of a construction truck right in front of harvison row. blocking, i mean this is not as big as a food truck. sidewalk issue. >> the other thing that i want to say is last year the food truck operators realized that they had a problem and they started all of this press started, negativety. eating into business profits they are trucking the food in and trucking the money out. the city is losing money. coffee, is coffee.

hamburger is hamburger, and a milk shake is a milk shake. thank you for your time. >> do you care to state your name for the record? >> karin smith. >> thank you. >> the next speaker, please? >> hello, my name is hillary cronenberg and i am a san francisco resident and i also work in the area. i happen to think a little differently than what has been going on here. i think that if i were to come to where the coffee truck would be, i would be eye opened into other restaurants, and places that i had never been before. because i am here checking out the coffee shop. so i might as well grab some lunch or bring a girlfriend back here next time. i also agree that it is very convenient with the amount of commerce that is in the area.

that we have more selection, and i just think that it helps the businesses and doesn't hurt them. and i urge you to up hold the permits. thank you. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please? >> >> my name is marcus millions and a works at the mall and i car pool and i come to howard and freemont street. and just i don't drink coffee often, but the days that where i am kind of sluggish it is kind of convenient having a truck there as opposed to going to a starbucks or petes. i have never noticed these other businesses but as the last speaker said, if i came to the coffee truck, and i noticed them, there would be a time

where i might come back. i also feel that times have changed and that i understand these people pay a lot of money for their rent and stuff like that. but they have to adjust to times and new things that are going on. and i urge you guys to up hold the permits. thank you. >> thank you. >> next, speaker, please? >> good evening, commissioners, or i should say good night. >> i am ken clevlan with the property owners association of the public policy. >> i think that you heard a lot of the arguments why these two permits should be revoked. even the department itself admits that it has been, or it has too much discretion in granting this permit for this

espresso carts. we have got to look at the larger picture. the larger picture is that we have to protect our tenants and they are facing an onslot of out of town, food trucks coming in in a downtown area which is very densely populated with restaurants, cafes, coffee shops and sandwich shots that are currently there and the city was allowing them through legislation is that was passed a couple of years ago to come in poach, our customers and putting them in harms way. do we want to see more empty food fronts? i think that we need to look at this and these two permits in particular this is symptom mat i can of our problem. >> the police department have a

pedaler permit. they require them that is going to sell similar, that is similar to a store to be 600 feet apart. yet we have passed a law that allows you 50 feet. they are thinking about reducing that to 50 feet. we love you small business mobile food truck operators and we don't care about you, brick and mortar, cafe, and coffee shops. we ask you to over turn the decision, it was unwise, they have the discretion, but it was unwise, there is plenty of opportunities for coffee service in that 300 feet and this is just not right. it is unfair to our small businesses that have been here in many cases many years, employing people, paying taxes, have been the back bone of the local communities and this

problem is not just in downtown it is going to eminate throughout the city and many of the commercial corridors will be affected. i think that you should over turn the decision and i think that it was unwise and certainly unfair. >> thank you. >> next speaker, please? >> hello, i am benjamin miller and i am a resident of san francisco. for several years i worked at 55 second street, before i went to 50 california actually. the same building as harvest and row. i was on the 18th floor. almost every day, i had my espresso from harvest and row. there were never a shortage of many choices of wonderful restaurant and place to buy espresso or any type of coffee. i unfortunately work at 781 lincoln and we would like to have a food truck and an

espresso truck up there. i am also a retail analyst and i have heard a lot of things tonight and i really appreciate mr. gold berg has done his due diligence because second street is really a go-to destination for food because the folks have made it a wonderful place and it seems very obvious to me that the same rent needs to be charge to foot operators if they are going to compete on an equal basis with these folks that very worked very hard to build a retail base and very faithful customers. so i would like to just, reiterate on behalf of these wonderful restaurants that have worked very hard to build up a customer base that it looks obvious that these guys want to just park out in front and it seems a little unfair. and i think that is the gist

that we have heard from several folks. there are plenty of place to get coffee. >> thank you. >> next, speaker, please? >> hello, good evening commissioners, i am jeff hilgore and i am a resident here in san francisco. i have done a great deal of canvassing and political organizing here in the bay area and that involves a great deal of sidewalk street work and regardless of what the issue was whether it was a disaster relief charity or a homeless assistance, political, nobody wanted me in front of their business. there was not a competition, something that i tried to explain, to someone, looking for a monthly donation for a charity is not going to deter someone from going in and buying a piece of fruit. but it is very easy to understand why your business is not necessarily flourishing for whatever reason you start aiming at that is the reason