and that's not -- the record but it's the content of the information. so that's why we had gone to this paper follow-up process. i'm a little concerned. we've already talked about some of the information that's in the file, which the record is confidential. and that information is confidential as well. so it's up to the applicant to decide, if he's willing to share some of this. but if he doesn't want to i think we should continue with the written process so those records and that information can be retained as confidential. >> ms. porter, would it be possible to continue it in a closed session so that the questions could be asked directly that are relating to the employment? >> unfortunately there's not a legal basis for closed session, under the brown act. but there is a legal basis for the records to be confidential and the information in them to be confidential. so it really does make it largely a paper-driven process

as far as what the commission can discuss publicly. but the commission is entitled to see the records and the information but those don't become public by virtue of that process because records are otherwise exempt. done. we've got questions and we've got answers. >> the continuance before was for the questions and concerns the commissioners had to be posed, and for the applicants to provide a response to those. so the hope was that that was going to satisfy the commissioners and avoid the need to discuss those topics in the public meeting. >> i don't know. i don't think that's right. >> i don't know if you can ask them privately. >> i'm a little -- >> the other point is all the commissioners are supposed to have access to the same universe of information, which was also why we had the questions and responses in writing.

>> president mazzucco: what i think we should probably do, obviously it's up to mr. romero if he wants to talk about these issues in public or should we continue this matter two weeks. because i have one question i think that needs to be answered. and if mr. romero is working for homeland security, there is generally severe prohibitions regarding secondary employment when you work for a federal law enforcement agency. so i think we need to figure out if that's an obstacle too. mydqjzxñ suggestion is to contie this matter for two weeks. i apologize. these are questions that need to be asked and unfortunately the way the charter works the police commission is in charge of doing the hiring for patrol specials and special patrol officers unlike the normal hiring for san francisco police officers. i apologize we're a little cautious we're trying to do everything right to protect you and the commission and the city.

my categorize would be to put this over until our next meeting on the 23rd. that's a question i think we need to have answered for your protection. and that would be my request to take this matter off calendar until that date. commissioners, do you have any -- >> vice president marshall: well i don't mind but i would just say if there are any other questions that we should get -- i mean if that's the only question i would agree but i don't want to go over old ground that we've covered through the previous process. i don't think that's fair to the applicant and what we said before so that's my only caveat here unless somebody objects to that. >> no. i think the process we put in place was put in place for a reason. i want the record to reflect commissioner loftus spoke to the applicant personally and here and came back up so i don't know if that discussion will be given to us secondhand or not. i'm uncomfortable because i don't know what was asked. i think if we want to put it over get it out on paper.

this poor guy is trying to get their jobs and we agreed on a process and we're dragging this process out and i just want to get it completed. >> president mazzucco: commissioner loftus. >> yeah. i was trying to respect the privacy rights of the officer that he wouldn't be pulled up here to answer a question and a question that a fellow commissioner had. so i'm happy to -- i'll take the advice of the city attorney, my fellow commissioner had a question in a she felt would be helpful and be dispositive is this. >> if the information will be helpful and dispositive it's something all commissioners should have access to. >> so i'm happy to tell it for the record now because without -- identifying who the person is because he's not been seen on television. >> his name is in the agenda. >> okay. >> and we're discussing a particular person's application. >> my suggestion -- thank you, commissioner lostis for asking the question. i take responsibility for any fault. perhaps we could relate thisi,jz

information via sgt. jes-ina. >> i'm happy to report to him what was said to me and what i asked. >> ask the city attorney to report to the appropriate procedure when an applicant comes before us when a individual takes them aside and asks them questions whether that is private or not private and i think it's a really inappropriate procedure. >> i recommend whatever the question was can be submitted in writing and whatever the response was can be submitted in writing so all commissioners have that information so there won't be any problem. >> we can follow up. >> and this whole process, while it seems cumbersome and i know that it is, there were concerns raised by the patrol special officer association, and the applicants about the confidentiality of this information. they're very legitimate concerns. so we're trying to respect their privacy while still giving the commission the full range of information and the full ability to consider and evaluate the

application. >> just so the record's straight i think the process we put in place is to go through the ant who is reviewing the applicants. i think it's ifn tim dating for a commissioner to set aside and take a applicant aside and ask if he wantsjp9jñ to talk about a private matter. i find that disturbing. let's honor the process and put the question to the sergeant and sergeant will provide the information and the applicant will tell the sergeant whether he wants to reveal the information. >> president mazzucco: what i will suggest is we put these questions in writing, like my question for example and again i apologize for putting this over for two weeks. this process is cumbersome as the city attorney said. it's because this is a unique situation and it's pursuant to the request of the patrol special police officers association. so we're trying to play by all the rules here and make sure this is done right. so with that in mind i'd like to put it over two weeks.

commissioner loftus. >> i appreciate everything commissioner dejesus said and her fidelity to the procedures and i certainly subscribe to wanting to make sure what we're here to do which is move this process forward. these guys have come forward a number of occasions and asked repeatedly every time they come to give different information and i stand fully ready to comply with the procedures and i want the record to be clear, commissioner dejesus the reason i went to talk to him was my concern that he would be seen on television, not just with his name but with the specific allegations we were concerned with and i think that could invade his privacy. but you have my full and complete cooperation and i do hope that we can get this resolved shortly so we don't keep bringing these guys back. >> president mazzucco: i don't think there's anything intentional and everything was done with the right intentions. so commissioner chan. >> commissioner chan: another question i had, since we are

putting this over and i agree we should put this over -- >> if the question is going to be disclosing some of the information in the application by asking for follow-up on it, i think it's better to submit the question -- if it's a specific question about something in the application, just asking the question alone is starting to disclose information. >> okay. i will put that in writing. thank you. >> president mazzucco: commissioner dejesus. >> commissioner dejesus: i didn't mean to insult you. i think maybe i should be a little more delicate. just that we have a position here and as the commissioner going to an applicant it could be seen as intimidating. i didn't mean to say you were intimidating. i wanted to honor the process so the applicant can be comfortable as well. >> i appreciate it and i know you said it in the spirit of trying to be helpful and i appreciate that. >> president mazzucco: thank you. so with your permission, patrol special wily, we're going to put this over two weeks and officer

romero with your permission and we'll put the questions in writing. thank you. please call line item no. 6 please. >> the clerk: discussion and deum to special patrol officer hart. action. >> president mazzucco: edward yim is present. there was one follow-up question. i know there's been an answer to it. and commissioners, do you have any further questions? because i think we're probably prepared to vote on this one. there's no further questions. i would move to -- any public comment regarding this? hearing none, public comment is now closed. i would move -- oh, yes. >> just for general purpose, i would love to see a copy here of policies and procedures for patrol specialist, and some type of a hierarchy code chart, since

my understanding i assume they're not under the jurisdiction of occ -- the commissioners be able to see what is exactly the channel of disciplining in misconduct cases for patrol specialist. thank you. >> president mazzucco: thank you very much. any further public comment? hearing none, public comment is now closed. i move to adopt and accept the application and appointment of edward yim as assistant patrol special officer to patrol special officer scott hart. >> i second it. >> president mazzucco: all in favor? roll call. >> president mazzucco, aye. vice president marshall, aye. commissioner dejesus, aye. commissioner chan, aye.

commissioner turman, aye. and commissioner loftus, aye. upon motion passes unanimously. >> president mazzucco: thank you very much. now patrol special officers scott hart can take a couple days off. spend some time with your family. welcome back, officer yim. please call line item no. 7 please. >> the clerk: line item 7, public comment on all matters pertaining to line item 9 below closed session including public comment on vote whether to hold item 9 in closed session. >> supervisor chiu: any comments -- >> presidencomments --comments - >> president mazzucco: any comment? hearing none, public comment is closed. do i have a second? >> second. >> second. >> president mazzucco: all inj: i need a second. >> second. >> president mazzucco: all in favor? aye. thank you, ladies and gentlemen. we will now move into closed

session. >> the police commission is now in closed session.