break down throughout districts? >> so on the focus group formation we will rely heavily on our contractor to identify individuals, but we are looking for a diverse and representative focus group. in terms of the break down -- no, our focus is on those areas of the city that as the chart shows are in the deep green sectors and so those are the areas we will be focusing on. we do have detail numbers behind the picture that we could certainly share with you, and have shared with the puc previously. >> okay. very good. commissioner mo ran. >> thank you through the chair do we know what the pg&e

premium is likely to be for their green offering. >> in their initial proposal it was stated if memory serves me at not more than 2 cents -- 2.5 cents over what they currently charge customers b again that is a proposal. it will go through the cupuc process and may change. >> when you say 2.5 cents is that literally -- like the $21.97 would go to $21.99? >> harlan kelly, general manager, so it's about $6 per month versus 11-dollar premium that we have equivalent to $6. >> yes, and that's for -- that's reflective for the cost

difference between providing a renewable energy credit versus firmed and shaped renewable power, so it's the product difference that is embedded in that price difference which goes to commissioner olague's statement that people need to understand the value behind what the price premium is addressing. >> and credit that pg&e can purchase rather than generate the clean power themselves . correct. >> correct. >> and we limit that component to 5% of the overall portfolio. >> thank you. commissioner moran any other? >> no. >> commissioner vietor. >> yes, i had a follow up with that. with the code of kukd

and the script and how we talk about the cleanpower sf and the pg&e offering and i don't know if that is sort of -- you talked about that internally i imagine but i think that would be a very important part of the roll out plan and the outreach plan is when that pg&e offering does come online how it will be talked about to the tar communities and the other groups that we will bring in down the road and i wanted to highlight that. i think that's important piece of the outreach program is how -- while staying within the bounds of the code of conduct -- >> right. >> how do we that and the 100% renewable and the 20% offering and really shows this is about a clean energy future. >> right and we will have the challenge of holding a potential customer's attention long

enough to explain the differences as well and to educate on those nuances of renewable energy credit versus bundleeled kilowatt hours and it's complex and i don't know how long they will colerate -- tolerate us on the porch talking but that is a key part and the education component in order to survey them and what they think is an important part of it, so we will be conducting our third city wide customer survey in early january to test this new premium price that we have established and as well as this and the pg&e green tariff option is available to them. we will use the results of the surveys then to redine the roll out of

the program. it will help us make sure we anticipate the right number of -- right percentage of opt out across the city, and we will take that heat map i showed you with the green and that survey will modify the specifics of that heat map again because we will have better information once again about customer acceptance of the program and then that wraps up the first quarter and we will have enough information then to come to the public utilities commission and ask the public utilities commission in about february to adopted -- not to exceed rates. it's our projected rate that is behind that bill premium i showed you, and that will begin the statutory rate setting process in the city that provides those rates that are adopted by the california public utilities commission to be placed before

the board of supervisors for consideration, and so by mid-march we should have clarity what the not to exceed rate, what the affordability bar is for launching that cleanpower sf and that takes us through march. >> has there been a lot of thought about actually trying to get closer to an actual rate rather than a not to exceed rate and outreach? what is the thought about creating the outreach plan? >> yeah, so the actual rate will be adopted probably in about the august time frame and the way -- well, the factors that play that are causing us to take this approach under our shell master agreement -- once that is signed then shell is able to present to us a portfolio of resources and a price that they are willing to commit to for the four and a

half years. that's going to be the price that actually sets the actual rate. in order to have that firm commitment they need to make a quick turn around decision with us. they will survey the market. they will look at the resources at hand. they will make a price commitment. we will need to say yes we will take it in a fairly short turnover time, like 48 hours, and so that allows us to know the -- the not to exceed rate allows us as staff to know what is considered affordable when shell comes with a final rate that we can factor into the rate model. is that going to result in a rate below not to exceed and if it is we as staff will come to the commission and may the general manager sign this confirmation with shell, and that's what a lock in the price that we will pay to shell and that we will be the basis

for what we charge our customers for four and a half years. it's that approach that allows us to commit to a fixed rate for that four and a half year period. it escalates over time but we we will know what it is and stability for customers at a rate they never experienced with pg&e before and that's an attractive aspect of it, but it requires the two step process on the rates and before we ask a customer if they want to opt out on the program we won't ask them with the not to exceed rate, but with the actual rate, so at that point when it's fish or cut bait time customer they will know what it is. >> they will know what it is? >> yeah. >> commissioner olague. >> yeah. it's along the lines of commissioner avalos asked. what is the time frame? when

will we have those figures? it seems premature if we don't have those and seems like we're misleading the public. >> right. we don't do that until we have the rate. >> the not to exceed really will allow. >> by january we will have those numbers. >> we're not surveying people in january. >> okay. >> we're still isn't notification and education phase at that point. we're not proposing to serve a customer until october under this program. >> okay. i guess i am wondering if we're surveying people do we have these actual rates and not to exceed rates in place -- otherwise we shouldn't be surveying people if we're misleading them. >> we don't serve anybody -- >> i mean surveying. >> oh surveying. excuse me.

>> okay. >> i don't see the point to surveying people if we're creating some kind of maybe anxiety or fear around these rates that may not end up being the reality. >> so i just wanted to point out that the reason we're surveying is to measure the appetite of what that price point is, and so what we're seeing -- >> okay. >> what number would be you be comfortable staying with this program? and we're seeing based on the numbers we're seeing now and if we get the same number now would you stay in the program for all these benefits that this program will offer? and it's consistent with what we have done better and hopefully we will get better results than before and then when we go through the process of actually getting the numbers if it's lower than what we are receiving now as far as rates then i think it's a good thing.

>> so we've already had extensive outreach looking at price rates already -- >> but there were different price rates because we've had new input from everyone about making sure that we're able to pay back the security and what the new premium, so the price is a little different and we want to make sure everyone is not miss lead so we want to reaffirm what the assumptions that we had before because we want to make sure the puc investment that we really kind of make sure that the roll out successfully. >> very good. commissioner olague any other -- >> yeah, i just wanted to make sure obviously if we're surveying people and we're presenting these numbers, and the actual is actually lower that we're not, you know,

unintentionally creating a fear, anxiety among potential customers that isn't based in, you know, what is the ultimate figures or whatever. that's all. >> yeah. okay. thank you. so by march then we will have this not to exceed rate that we have talked about, and we will move forward into the actual sort of retail part of our early notification program where we will be focusing on the residents that are in the deep green precincts and this is a refreshed informed deep green from the survey that we just took and we will talk to those folks. we anticipate working with community based

organizations and programs like environment now to target 20,000 households. we expect that we will actually reach and have direct conversations with 5400 households and that means we're looking at being 99% confident of the results of this survey with a not more than 2% margin for error or deviation from that. this will include distribution of postcards and other materials at community events and festivals across the city as well as this door to door "hi we're the cleanpower sf program and we want to talk about our offering". we're also going to -- in recognition of the fact some folks have called us and said "hey we're hearing about this

program and we're interested". we're going to allow some commercial customers that seem to be expressing more than of an environmental consciousness based interest in our program to sort of cue up and be participants in this program, so we our -- our prime area focus is residential but we will let commercial customer who is are interested be part of the program and make sure that we hear from them and right size the program commitment, that 20-30-megawatts and talk to some of those folks and if they will commit early, and to the extent there are -- there's more interest in the program from that sectorra than we expected we could have a wait list so as residential customers opt out we could say small commercial customer we will take you off the wait list and put you in

the program. they will receive the same opt out notification treatment that residential customers in the deep green customers we're focusing on will receive so it's compliant with the requirements of the state law. so what are we going to say when we're on your front porch? really what we're looking at here is educating folks and asking if they want participate. if they want to participate what are we going to do? we will tell them "great, you will receive opt out notifications and you don't need to take any action". if we're talk to a household that really is not interested. i'm having a hard enough time paying my bills. i really can't afford to make this choice, or i am just not interested. then we will be making sure that customer is

aware of the opt out notifications they will receive. to the extent that we don't hear from them in reply of the opt out and we will go back and say "hey whrks we talked to you before you said you weren't interested and you haven't sent the opt out in. did it get lost on the kitchen counter?" just to make sure that folks that told us they're not interested follow through and how to say no thank you through the opt out card and again we don't want accidental customers. it's not in our interest as their neighbors or from a business perspective either. there will be other residential customers who will be likely hearing about the cleanpower sf program and they might say even though we're not on their front porch and that is great and we will add

them to the list of customers who will receive the opt out notice. there are those from the group they will say "i heard about this and i don't want it". okay we hear you. you're not part of target group and there is a mention of it in the data base. >> we have a question. >> thank you. i'm in the same section you're talking about on the notification piece and i wanted to comment on the new emerging demographic that we all recognized from the last election that i think has huge potential to be participants and be excited about this program and young communities of color and different kinds of communities that before hadn't been as engaged, and it seems

like a way to engage and educate those communities that really around social media, and i saw in here there is a big focus working with cbo's and operating their networks, but i would love to see something in here that social media is going to be maximized, what that looks like, whatever the plan is and i know for me and i'm not the emerging demographic and i'm not home much but to reach that constituency we have to maximize the tools which they respond to. i would love to see that as part of the plan. >> all right. we will highlight that more. we have a website. you're certainly aware of the public utilities commission twitter and facebook and other social media activities and cleanpower sf will certainly be engaging in all of those

activities. i think maybe it could be highlighted better in the budget section certainly where we're talking about how we're funding some of this media and outreach. it might be lumped a little too much under online advertising and social media is a tool we love to use. it's one of the least expensive approaches and it's a great leveraging tool too. >> are we also looking at -- this is really like a field campaign. we've just come out of election season in san francisco. there are a lot of resources around doing field campaigns. are there folks hired as consultants or organizations that do a lot of outreach especially to communities of color that are involved in that outreach? >> yeah, that is all part of the community based organization and outreach we're looking at, and

i absolutely want the folks that are representing our program to san francisco residents to be able to -- be reflective of the community they're talking to, so that's part of our focus, and what we will be working with are communications consultants on making sure we achieve. >> who is the communications consultant again? >> the commission authorized us to contract on a limited basis with davis and associates. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> commissioner vietor do you have another -- >> no, i'm done. >> commissioner olague. >> yes, i guess that is concerning to me actually. >> okay. >> i just am not sure how much experience consulting groups have working directly with communities of color and low income communities and seniors

and more disenfranchised groups so i think the social media works for a certain sector and even a certain generation and maybe a certain -- what's word? demographic within a certain range, right, but i think sometimes lower income people have less i think there is still a digital divide that is very real in san francisco. one of the issues that we started taking up a little bit at planning was the issue of outreach and how does one really engage more effectively with those more disenfranchised communities or communities of color, people who language and age and this sort of thing, so i just think that's something that has to be really seriously looked at because i think we fail on a lot of levels, and one of the things we looked at when

i was a member of the mission coalition we tried to popularize planning language so people who -- because sometimes what is so i guess challenging is that the language that explain some of these very valuable concepts is still very kind of lofty or like i said popularizing the language, so i guess that is critical when doing some of this outreach and that sort of thing to make sure that the language is such that it's, you know, accessible and it's meaningful, and i think that -- that is where a lot of cbo's and people that work in the community were successful doing the outreach with land use and we had to break down the language -- i'm not suggesting people don't have the capacity to understand language that is more lofty and for any person regardless of

educational background sometimes it's a turn off and there has to be a way to be sensitive to that because we fail in our attempts to do effective outreach to communities who i think are disenfranchised. that's all. >> supervisor, just to highlight the point that we do have davis and associates, but as we look at the makeup of the team if there is additional -- >> they're brilliant and great and everything but they're land use. seems to me -- i don't associate them working directly with low income communities of color certainly. >> what resources they don't have under their contract what we will have them do is supplement and add resources to their team to accomplish that. >> it will be interesting to see how that works. >> yes. we will define what resources -- >> they're great at what they

do but i don't know if they're the group that i associate working effectively with low income residents of color. >> i agree with you. >> and we're talking about the targeted areas and the areas on the heat map and consist of a particular type of outreach as well. we're looking at retention rate of 37% across the whole city. is that what i read? >> yeah 37 in the last survey. >> across the whole city. what are we looking at as retention rates in the target areas to gain through the initial outreach effort, the initial enrollment effort? >> yeah, i think the -- if memory serves me it's in -- like 47 to 52% in the deepest green areas. more than half the folks

in the areas -- >> which is close to the retention rate that we measured for the tier one customers? >> yeah, right; right. and so by the second quarter -- by the end of june we will have completed these activities and be in a position to ask our commission to decide the final size of the program because we will have completed the survey and the early notification and really begin to form a list of very active and interested customers, and that's what we expect to make the final call on the overall program size in june, so then we move on to the third and fourth quarter activities which go to the largely the state required opt out portion. the

state requires that four opt out mailers be sent to each customer that we intend to include in our cleanpower sf program. we will be in a position then as we talked before to know what the actual price is, not the not to exceed rate, but the actual wholesale price from shell that becomes our actual rate. we will be able to share with customers the actual price premium that they would experience knowing how much they typically consume at their household each month. it's at this point that we will have signed the confirmation with shell. we will then be at this point financially obligated under this program. the opt out

mailers then will begin to be sent with this detail. we will do multi-language, english, chinese, spanish. we will have customers able to opt out respond to us via snail mail or email. we will make sure that we meet the minimum requirements of the law, which is two of the notifications must be mailed before service occurs, and then two of the notifications must be mailed after service has occurred within a 60 day boundary before and 60 day boundary after, so customers will know from us what we think their bill experience will be. customers who don't opt out after the first two notifications and get enrolled in the program see their first bill and decide they don't want

to be part of the program will then receive again -- again they will receive an opt out notification and tell us no thank you at that point. they can call, let us know by various means that they want out, and throughout this time period we will be utilizing broadcast media, social media, broadcast media to make sure folks are aware. it's not just a quiet piece of mail that shows up at their home. it's going to be a full campaign here in the city, television, out door, advertising, newspaper, social media. our goal is really to reach as many people as possible throughout san francisco by repetition of this message, so no one that you bump into will say "i have no idea what you're talking about". >> president torres. >> yes ms. hale i wanted to go

along the comments by the current chair and supervisor olague as well. part of the challenge we with with the stem cell industry is put in plain language the consent form and one of those experiences that we just had was with a young lady, who i can talk about now because she went public, one of the spinal cord injuries in the stem cell trial was that the medical language was so complex in the consent form that it needed to be improved so someone couldn't come back later and say "this patient was under emotional distress and of course they choose to because they didn't know what the consequences and side effects are" and this is not as serious as that, but