sending my son to public school in san francisco, trying to make ends meet like most people here. we have been patiently waiting to condo convert for six years with our financial stability deteriorating. we are trapped by our loan because we are not able to refinance and have a balloon payment due in two years. i'm scared what will happen in two years. i am not a real estate investor. i'm not looking to float my home. i am a mother who wants to raise her child in san francisco and have the same mortgage financing options as the rest of the countries. i urge you to support the condo bypass legislation. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> hello. my name is julie, and i'd like to thank the supervisors for taking this into such serious and strong consideration. i think what's evident today is that the t.i.c. units and

ownership is very unique to san francisco and therefore requires unique and brave decisions. i'm a single woman, i've lived here for 20 years, i bought my first home as a t.i.c., not because i was looking to flip a unit, not because i'm wealthy but because i worked very hard to do what seemed practical and smart. i can't believe i'm standing here right now thinking that buying a home in san francisco is the most regrettable thing i've ever done because it's actually the most difficult, pretty much anywhere in the country. i think the devastating concern right now is of course what people have said about these loans. but san francisco is a subprime market crash waiting to happen. and we have to wake up and all of you, the supervisors opposed, have to consider the reality of this. the difference is that we are not subprime in that we've all honored these homes, we all have high credit ratings, we've been very thoughtful and efficient about our part of the deal.

but when inflation hits and these loans, which are not extendible past five years, crash, we're all going to default. this is real. this is not about the lower class versus the middle class. it's unique to this particular sect of people and we have a problem. and i believe that this solution is a big part of rectifying that problem. i think that there's a lot of misconception that all of these units are going to go off the charts financially. they'll go off the charts if we stay t.i.c. because our mortgages are going to be 6,000 and we're going to have to rent to get our kids in schools in the suburbs. that's what's going to drive these prices up, not making this change with strong protections for 2,000 units which is 1% of the san francisco market. what's going to drive the cost up is mortgages that are not -- >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is -- and i'm a

t.i.c. owner. this is actually very important to me and i wrote a few sentences here to share with you. i'm writing to urge you to support the condo bypass legislation recently introduced by supervisors farrell and wiener. this legislation will help my family and many other hundreds of first time homeowners in san francisco, while protecting tenants in raising an estimated 20 to 25 million in funds for affordable housing. we bought our two bedroom t.i.c. unit in october 2007. it was the only type of property we were able to afford at that time. now, the times have changed. five years and two kids later, we're in need of a different home. we tried selling our t.i.c. unit in september last year, and -- how initially attracted potential buyers were quickly turning away upon learning our unit was a t.i.c. we're not in it to make money.

many buyers are afraid of t.i.c.s. and are willing to pay higher prices for the more familiar condominium type property. as most of our savings are locked in our property we feel very trapped and unable to move to a bigger house or a bigger apartment with two kids. if we were able to sell our t.i.c. property, we would be able to afford the bigger home in san francisco. by not allowing us to convert to condo, the city is not only losing the proposed conversion fee, but also the the tax from the two potential property sales of our current unit and the future unit. please help my family and other trapped t.i.c. owners in the city. and i have to add that this is the first time, after many, many years, that i feel there is some likelihood of this very long tunnel. thank you for your time. >> chair wiener: thank you. i will call more names. josephine -josephine --y, shirl,

shirley, christina, chin, ingles, jim inglings, jake block, chi, jane, susan, kay walker, deborah -- brian blake, iris, martis, gran, stacy, kevin, rose, and beth palmer. next speaker. >> thank you. my name is -- i'm a district 8 t.i.c. owner. i purchased a three unit t.i.c. in 2007, with a 20% downpayment. i lived with my wife and two children. since the peak of the market there's been a dynamic change in the financial lending practices of banks in the bay area that i

believe is quite unfair. right now, we have tried to sell one of the three units in our building twice, with no success, due to the inability to refinance. additionally, my partner and i have tried to refinance our property twice in the past year and a half. both times being denied. the reason that we are being denied, our mortgage is the fact that many banks right now, we have approached three banks in the bay area, to refinance our house. they required 30% down and above market rates of about 5 to 6% mortgage rate onable basis. what that is telling the marketplace and people like myself who want to live in the city that t.i.c.s are actually an inaffordable option requiring 30% down versus a condominium or typical house requiring 20% down to finance a home. so t.i.c. structure requires more money up front and also requires much more cost on a

monthly basis. for owners like myself i'm unable to refinance at market rate and stuck at a 6% rate. much like the woman who spoke in front of me we're facing a time where we will be saddled with a community with balloon mortgages and unaffordable payments. i urge you to please support plan c and to support plan c. thank you. >> chair wiener: next speaker. >> afternoon. my name is greg, i'm in your district, supervisor chiu. i believe -- for the greater part of 15 years, been a renter for most of them, was fortunate to be able to afford the ability to get into the real estate market to purchase a t.i.c. about six years ago, moved into a five unit t.i.c. building of which everyone in the building is a first time homebuyer. we had one kid in the building that's grown to six with another on the way. everyone is young and building

families and everyone desires to stay in san francisco. i myself have two daughters, one who is six months old and the other is three and a half years old. my wife and i love san francisco, we'd love to stay here but the financing options for the t.i.c. has been so onerous that we have right now only one option for refinancing, and if we do want to go into a bigger place in the city it's going to be difficult to sell our place because of the limited financing options. i know everyone in our t.i.c. will run into the same problems as each unit grows their families out. we're highly in support of this legislation and want you to know we're not landlords. we're not -- we're owners but we're all renters and everyone in our unit, in our five units, is -- you know, at t.i.c. owner because that was the only way they could get into the market for the first time so we're highly supportive of this. we pay a lot of property taxes to the city and we know that if

we do have to move out -- keep our place as a rental there is opportunity that this potentially leads to increase in the rents because we have to charge a high price because or financing options lead to high -- to make our monthly mortgage high. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> my name is amy. unfortunately, i'm disabled since the late 90's, and i'm looking for -- i don't know is low income housing i can buy, but ununfortunate, it's very difficult for me because i'm -- since i got sick i'm no longer able to work -- you know, even i work for the government, they kick me out. so it's really disaster for me.

and also, the rental is very expensive way now. and even though my landlord -- my landlord and land lady, they've been giving me lots of hard time, you know, try to -- in a way they try to kick me out. and they even fix, you know, whatever damage, they won't fix it for me, and they keep increasing my rent, illegally. how i -- finally went to the rent board last year and i found out, and the rent board suggest me file a complaint, you know, but you can imagine disabled person, you know. i don't want to suffer too much mentally. so -- and i want to -- if i want to buy a low income housing, whatever you call, you know, and i have difficulty to afford, and now i'm looking forward, like -- renting a place to live, but now

everywhere so expensive, and i don't know how to go to, and where to go to. and -- face the reality, you know, this is very difficult to rent a place to live, especially for disabled person. thank you. >> co-chair kim: thank you. >> good afternoon, land use. and i think it's time ♪ you started land living. ♪ it's time you let and property living. ♪ it's time you let someone else do some giving. ♪ land -- all around, no need to waste it. ♪ you got the low fee, and you're going to take it. ♪ you're going to make it in the city after all. ♪ you're going to make it in the city after all.

and i'll be saying -- ♪ this time he and she and her house is gone, only darkness every day, ain't no sunshine when it's all gone, and they're always gone. ♪ every time these prices come along. ♪ wonder this time where she's gone. ♪ she's gone away. ♪ ain't no sunshine when she's gone. ♪ she's gone where she can afford to pay, hey, hey. ♪ now, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, leave that price alone. ♪ ain't no sunshine city hall -- when the price is high is gone. ♪ and i got to be me, i got to have low housing fee, what else can i be, but have low fee. ♪ i won't settle down, won't

settle for less, if the price can have it all. ♪ and i'll have it all, city hall. ♪ i'll go it alone if i have to be -- have low fee. ♪ i want to settle down, and have price for less, and laugh all the best. ♪ city hall, you fix the rest. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker please. >> can't top that. my name is brian, i represent a six unit building in district 3 in russian hill. we're a big variety of owners who got school teacher, accountant, salesperson, freelance journalist and city employee. so i think we represent some

cross-section of san francisco. we never evicted anybody in our building but at the same time one of our owners -- two of our owners had kids, they had to move out, they weren't able to sell their unit so they're stuck renting and losing money every month. it's hurting them and their ability to get started in their new lives. i think for a lot of us, myself included, it feels like a bit of a waste to paying an extra point and a half to our mortgage every month to the bank. we would much rather give it to the city than give it to the banks, in the form of this affordable housing fee at a time when the city can use it. and so i'm in support of the legislation and i hope you guys will consider it. thanks. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> hi. my name is -- schubert, first time homeowners.

i've been renting many years before that, living in a t.i.c. in a three unit building, together with my wife we moved in, in 2005. we did not evict anybody. we've been playing the lottery since then, a few times -- condo convert, have been able to do, a few things have changed since then, one thing is mortgage situation and market, second we have a three-year-old kid right now and we're in the situation we cannot really move within the city realistically, given all the prices in the market. we cannot refinance. we have tried, we're not able to do so, given the known situations in the market, and we cannot rent out without losing opportunity to really play the lottery. so we ask you to support the legislation. it's a win/win. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> hello. my name is frank, i'm a

homeowners in san francisco and got my start 32 years ago in a t.i.c. i came to support the backlog of t.i.c. conversion units to condo. however i do say that preference should be given to buildings where all the units are owner occupied and were purchased without an eviction. when a renter like me entered a t.i.c. process, he or she does remove a unit of rental stock but also decreases demand for rental stock by one unit. when it converted the composition of the housing stock is not affected only the mechanism of ownership but this is important. ting t.i.c. results in more flexibility. housing stock is improved as --- physical system awch as plumbing and wiring are brought up to code. while affordable housing stock is scarce in san francisco, for

rental, affordable housing for purchase is also very scarce. and t.i.c. or condo is the most affordable type of owner housing. increasing the housing stock is critical for both rental and owner housing. last friday the chronicle indicated that several thousand apartments are in the pipeline for delivery over the next three years. less than 10% of these will be available to be converted to condos. while many of the apartments will be outrageously priced there will be some move-up renters which should open some apartments. only about a third of san franciscans own their homes and two-thirds nationally own their home. this indicates a backlog of demand for home ownership. trying to address the conversion backlog will help meet this demand. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker.

>> [speaking foreign language] >> translator: my name is june chan. i'm speaking on behalf of our families living in sros. right now,i'm paying my rent 70% of my income goes to my rent, even in a sro.

if this legislation were to pass, we could see that lots off units will become without rent control. already, we have seen a lot of rent increases going on. so, at the end, families i ask will be affected with higher rent, even evictions. so i urge you to not to pass this legislation. thank you.

>> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. before you start, i'm going to call a few more names. >> good evening. >> chair wiener: one moment please. one moment please. >> just one? >> chair wiener: yeah. ashley lyon -- >> [speaking foreign language] >> chair wiener: it's okay. we'll do it after he speaks. >> [speaking foreign language] i'm a volunteer in the city. cta have -- members low income families. no more money to pay high rent. we need affordable housing.

please keep the safe land control housing. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. actually, let me call a few. ashley lyon, michelle, denise, terry, linda, darren bridges, joanne, mark brian, lorenzo, cizi, karen fishkin, peter cohen, fernando, carolyn, bryce, david feather stone, andy, lisa garcía. go ahead. >> thank you. good afternoon. my name is steve wu.

i'm representing tenderloin neighborhood development corporation. and we are also a member of the council for community housing organizations. we've taken a position opposed to the legislation primarily because we see t.i.c.s as cannibalizing the existing rental housing stock. our rental housing stock is critical to preserve in maintaining the affordability in san francisco's housing. we believe that, furthermore, that the uncapping the conversion condo conversion cap will further incentivize more t.i.c.s forming from our existing rental housing stock, thus leading to -- exacerbating the affordability problem in san francisco. furthermore, the the fee, we have questions about the fee,

for bypassing the conversion lottery. it's set as high as 20,000 but as low as 4,000. this is substantially lower than the in lieu fee that the mayor's office of housing has set forth of construction for bmr units through new condominium construction which is as low as 175 -- as high as 175,000 per unit. we're afraid that this fee -- the small scale of this fee could create a competition between condominium developers, thus incentivizing condo existing condo developers to choose the cheaper option and lessening the mayor's office of housing or housing funds coffers in terms ever funds for affordable housing. so we have serious concerns about the way the fee was calculated and would like more information on that. regardless, the last thing i want to say is -- sorry.

>> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is -- i also work as a community organizer with tmbc and as a member of council of community housing organizations. we also do not support this legislation, and i also want to talk about unintended consequences. i think both the city attorney's office and dhw talked about not really having the -- or the budget and not knowing what -- who will oversee the actual enforcement of the life long lease, and also the question came up about like what actual protections do tenants have, after -- eviction and all kinds of eviction that the landowners can do-u either threatening the ones that are not really recorded so we don't know how clean these buildings are. so we just want to support other renters and the tenants who have the right to stay here. it's just interesting to see so

many of the t.i.c. owners talking about wanting to stay in the city. it's true. i think it's shameful that this ordinance pits san franciscans against each other when all of them are saying that we want to stay here, we want to raise our families here. and i think the actual answer is not this one-time kind of band-aid solution that pits people against each other but looking at new housing and new construction that can actually help middle class families to stay here. so in the spirit of unity with a lot of the people who came out to support prop "c" and also the housing trust fund, i think we should work together instead of trying to fight each other. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> hole wil.>> my name is rine n of the ordinance that you're trying to push through. it's really a shame that it's coming through and creating divisions between people that

want to raise their family in the city and are unable to and through low income renters. both sides are agreeing that the predatory loans that we're taking out is the real issue. also it really steams to be a half-assed legislation in that there is not capacity or ability to enforce the number control, as pointed out earlier that the current number of 200 conversions is well over that. so i think that needs to be taken into account as well, that if you're introducing something to make sure that the legislation supports the enforcement, and the ability to make sure that you're actually doing what you're proposing. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon. i'm sheila, i live in wiener's district. i'm in a three unit t.i.c. and our building has been in the lottery for 11 years now. we're heading into our eighth year in the lottery.

like most people here we have young family and we just want to have some housing security and i'd like to be able to raise our kids here and t.i.c. was the only way to do that. to give you perspective on what our mortgage means we have a three unit building and we pay 6.7% mortgage loan, interest only because that's all we can get and we don't qualify for refinancing. collectively our units paid $100,000 in interest last year and i would be more than happy to give some of that to san francisco instead. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is alex, i -- for the proposal, the conversion of t.i.c. to condominiums. it's good for the tenant -- they can get a lifetime warranty for the lease and they are still under rent control. and only t.i.c., they get freedom to lower interest and

get freedom of enjoy their life. i came from new york in 1970 and i remember san francisco very peaceful. the population of -- about a quarter million, something like now. i rent and apartment, two bedroom with a beautiful garage and a beautiful bathroom. i pay only 200. but now the same apartment rent for over 2,000. do you know why, the rent control killed industry. the landlord, they refuse to run away anymore. i own property but i refuse to rent anymore. and, also, my friends and -- in san francisco, they refuse to -- their property away. it -- beg demand for the property. and then i think san francisco the problem is the rent control killed the society. that's not freedom. is economy. if ms. jane came -- go to china to come in this country, there's no rent control.

if you go to vietnam, there is no rent control. if they come to this country they find beautiful houses being built, every year, every month. they create lot of house. then i pray for this conversion of t.i.c. to condominium. it's fair to the landlord and also fair to the tenants. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> actually call my name but i have to pick up my kid. can i speak? >> chair wiener: go ahead. >> sorry. my name is bobby i'm a wife and mother and lived in our unit for eight years and our entire building is owner occupied. we want to convert for all the reasons stated from those ahead of me. we pay 7% on our loan and we could be three and a quarter if we were a condo. the easier transferability due to life changes. one thing i wanted to address was the flipping concern and it's kind