final determinations. there is no fault of the department and it can be no fault of the district attorney's office because they do a very thorough investigation, so if there are any questions regarding i want to make that clear, commissioners? anything further? >> thank you for preparing this presentation and also for being willing to move the presentation involving the officer involved shooting process to next week, sorry to inconvenience you on two wednesday nights in a row. i want to ask you about 11-002 and i wanted to know if there is any indication that this individual, the suspect had mental health. the reason for that is that we star those for the records and i wonder if it needs a star by it. if there is any evidence? >> to my knowledge, inspector mcdonalds handled it. >> i don't believe so. there were no mental health issues identified with this

subject. and the summary report, the summary of the different oises that you received with the fdrb packet i have put a asterisk on there and i think that those are up to date. >> i want to be sure that this one does not need a asterisk but you answered my question. >> great. >> and the last presentation will be on gun violence. >> okay, good evening, chief, commissioners and director hicks. i like to give the presentation of how the sfpd works to reduce violence in our city. assisting me in the

presentation will be officer spagnoly and captain oleary and mcfaden of >> it is a five-part presentation, i would like to introduce spagnoly he is an fer that works in the range and he is an weapon's expert and he was a member of the tactical teams and he is going to give you an overview, a brief overview of the kind of weapons that the officers come in contact with in our city and explain, or define the meaning of an assault weapon. let's bring it up and we will begin from here. >> good evening, i am here to show you a few different types of weapons that you would normally see on the street and

which officers may come in contact with. and then in others that are not quite as common. but i will show you both. they are all unloaded and safe, and no one else will be handling the weapons besides myself. >> i just want 300 of them. >> you probably have rendered them safe for being in a public setting. you have rendered them safe, why they look scary there is a tie to them. >> two are unoperatable and the others are tied and safe. >> i am sure that you did, i just wanted to make sure that we said that. push >> the first is a model ten, a smith and wesson ten and five

it is a revolver, years ago the police officers would carry the revolvers and we went to semiauto, it can't be fired. when fired, the cylinder rotate its fires, it has six rounds and fires six rounds. the basic that you would see either a police officer in the past would use or you will see even the criminals out there with revolvers still. all right? hundreds and hundreds of thousands of revolvers in the country and they are not illegal in california. let me go to the semiauto that the officers carry, neck, any questions on the revolver. >> for each bullet have you to pull the trigger. >> that is correct, each time that you have to turn it and it fire and turns. >> if it is a semi, or a revolver you have to press the trigger every time for each round to come out.

>> in 1994, 18 years ago jim galf was killed at pioneer franklin and we all did not have the same guns at the time, some still had revolvers and others had purchased semiauto mat semi auto mat ticks and where the suspect had a german ak 47 and held off 120 police officers for a half hour firing 500 rounds before the swat took him out and prompted the department to go to a standardized weapon just so that we would have a chance. >> that is correct. >> this is a semiauto. also inoperatable. it is one that the police department carries, it is semiauto. you have to pull the trigger every time to fire. thank you. >> it has a magazine, a magazine in the weapon. it holds 12 rounds, and actually the magazine itself for civilian use is not legal in california. only ten rounds are legal.

what the officers carry, are a couple of rounds extra than to be legal in california >> a ten round magazine at this time are legal. these are the weapons that the officers carry today on duty, the p229 and 226 are the calibers, or the models. and again, semiauto, when this weapon is fired, these slide comes back and picks up a round out of the magazine, and subsequently fires more rounds but you have to press the trigger every time. any questions on this one? >> no? >> so the typical hunting rifle that you see is totally legal in california, or in any other state for that matter. it is a hunting rifle, it is a 300 minute chester mag num and it does not have a magazine which you will notice the difference between this and what i will show you next which are considered assault weapons. and so, it does not have a

magazine, a detachable magazine, the rounds are set inside here which it does allow for several rounds, inside. but each time, in order to fire this weapon, you need to pull the bolt back and send it forward and fire and pull it back and fire. and it is a typical hunting rifle that you will see for a hunter, which a hunter will use. all right? >> okay, this is a copy of an ak 47. it is an actual weapon. this one is made in hungary but it is the same exact weapon made in russia. this is just a copy, as you can see it has a detachable weapon, i tied it back so it is not

functioning at this time. this magazine, the banana type, it can accept 30 rounds, again this is a semiauto. a semiauto weapon, but it can hold and press it all the time. >> they come in full auto versions, where they press the trigger and you can press it 4, 5, 6, 10, whatever the person choses to fire. not legal, even though that it is semiin california, it is not legal. full auto versions are not legal at all either. this is a semiauto version. detachable magazine, some of them which determined, or the definition of an assault weapon is a detachable magazine, a flash suppresser. for the assault rifle and then

we have the assault pistols as well. any questions on the assault rifle? at all? >> one quick question for you, >> yeah. >> how difficult is it to turn that semiautomatic rifle into a fully automatic? >> that is a good question, there are companies that sell parts that you can exchange and put into the weapon to make it a full auto weapon, they are not legal in california and so if the manufacturer were to send it to california, it is not, they are not allowed to do so. all right? it is possible to purchase it, but it is illegal. you may want to ask, you know, how can you make it in your garage? how can you get in there and start messing with it and make it full saw auto? >> it is not that easy, you have to have a lot of knowledge when it comes to weapons, gun smithing and armor and so on. i don't want to get into exactly how you would go to make it full auto, it is not the good idea, so i won't talk about that. but there are ways to do that.

what happens when someone makes it a full auto weapon, it is not a controllable full auto, weapon, it means that someone that is just working in their garage or in a gun shop that wants to make it full auto, without the proper parts would make the gun not controllable. it would fire and the whole magazine would fire, instead of a controllable full auto, weapon that is what is more dangerous, because it is not an accurate weapon if you make it completely full auto. the fire would not be very accurate to begin with. >> i think that it is important, that there are 39 states in the united states, that allow privately owned machine guns and very, several states especially in the southeastern part of the country where for a fee, you can take it to a deal and her they can convert a semi, auto, and put what is called a stamp on it and guns travel. so 39 out of the 50 united states, you can privately hold

a machine gun as long as it is registered with the atf, it is not easy and these guns can be taken in burglaries. >> those bordering states and those are the laws in nevada. >> until last tuesday, california had the strongest gun laws in the united states, arizona the weakest and we are next door >> so someone could go to a gun show across the board and board and border and do that weapon. >> i just have a question regarding the last firearm. on the pictures that we have here, there is rifles, semi, automatic and then there is the assault weapon. the magazine clip, on the semiautomatic, does that change the rifle into a it. >> if you take that banana

magazine away that comes under the semiautomatic rifle. >> yes. >> once you put that banana magazine on you it falls down on a fully or modified? >> it would be an assault weapon, semi, auto assault weapon >> another category. >> we can spend a whole day talking about the different ways or the different types of assault weapons that there are. here is another as we speak, it is an assault pistol, which is a mack ten and a 45 caliber and this one is shoot very quickly and accept the magazines up to 30 rounds and the whole magazine could be fired and less than two seconds. and it is a very fast-shooting weapon. again, a controllable fast-shooting weapon, this one is semiauto, but they make versions of this in full auto. and the same thing is considered an assault pistol, just because it is smaller and it accepts an attachable

magazine. normally, if there is a pistol grip in front, also, it is considered an assault weapon. so, the flash suppresser on it, an assault pistol, sometimes there is threading through the silencer, and that is not legal either. this is another assault pistol, a mac ten it is called. okay? >> another, assault-type of pistol the tech 9, all right the same thing and it has a detachable magazine not in the pistol grip, the forward of it, cap able of shooting many rounds, semiauto. and this can accept the magazine of 20 or 30 rounds as well. an assault pistol and some have make it so you can shoot it more accurately. we just have a few here this evening to show you, the difference between an assault

weapon and a simple rifle that someone would use for hunting. any questions on this one? >> okay. there is also, asked to know just a few different if we have time, i am not sure that we have time to show the different ammunitions if we have time. there are a few different types of ammo i know that were in current times. we have been talking about hall low points and things like that that is kind of a hot topic right now. there are a lot of different types of ammunition that are very serious rounds here that are illegal. red tip 223 ammunition is illegal and it is a red tip and it is actually can it lights up when it fires. okay? so if you shot it in somewhere there is grass or you can catch

that on fire. different colored tips have different colored fire as they fly through the area. and so that is not legal in california. or in most states, but in california, specifically, it is not. we have another one that is not legal. a 308, red tip, the same thing. and not legal in california. it is tracer round they call it a tracer because you can see it and trace it as it flies through the air and it actually is lit with different flammable material like phosphorus, magnesium and the different colors that designates the different types of material used in the actual bullet. and there is a green one and a green tip. this actually penetrates steel. and so this will go through steel, not only body armor but steel as well. so a very serious round that

can penetrate the steel and go through your car door or a police officer's door and so on. not legal and have an x here, which makes that. and then, another one that is not legal, red tip, another tracer round, the same thing, phosphorus, and kind of flies through the air where you can see t mostly for the military use. and illegal round. and then the basic rounds that we do have that are legal for hunting is a 308 rifle basic hunting cartridge and it is different when it is fired and this is used for hunting and the police officers used that in the sniper rifles and just by looking at it you would not know the different. >> full metal jacket and the basic round, 7.2368 legal to own and, one more, not legal to own is the they called it the upper nickel round, jacketed,

fully armor piercing, very serious round to go right through probably an inch thick of metal. pretty serious round. again, not legal. >> ak 47 round, a smaller round, 7.62 times 39. legal to purchase, for the ak 47. 223s, again some of the rounds that are used for hunting and also used for police work and the specialists team use the 223 caliber in their ar 15s or m4s for the swat team. and again, just another 223 for hunting. rifle round. so i mean just by looking at it you would not be able to tell a difference. but designating colors on them tells you, and if you don't know just by telling you you could be picking up a round that is illegal in california. any questions on the rounds or anything that i have covered so far? >> yes?

>> the mayor proposed in december legislation to the board of supervisors proposing to out law in san francisco, particular type of bullet and i believe it was the first one you were talking about maybe, the hallow points. >> yes. >> and of those, why that one is there a lot of that in san francisco? or what we are seeing that or why that one as opposed to the other ones? >> the hallow point is designed as a human stoper, it is designed to stop humans that is what that bullet was designed for. it was designed to expand in tissue. so when that round hits a person, it spreads and it causes more damage, on entering

that person. it is designed as a hallow point and it is destroyed and i don't want to get graphic but it destroy the tissue in the human body. having said that, other bullets full metal jacket like some are that not proposed to be illegal can cause a lot of damage. they penetrate even further, for example, if a police officer were to use that in a home or someone using a full metal jacket bullet in their home and it may penetrate through several walls and cause more damage than a hallow point, i don't know if that is really the answer to, i don't think that it really makes a difference and the bullet is dangerous. >> the mayor was talking about black talon. >> that is the one that i was talking about that has a jagged edge and it is mainly to destroy more human tissue and to stop the threat of whatever,

you know. >> i didn't realize that the black talon was the same as the hallow. >> it is hallow and it has several different designs and that is just one particular design that they have. again, a bullet is inherently dangerous and a hallow point may not be more dangerous than a regular, full metal jacket in my opinion. >> thank you. >> thank you, officer. >> thank you for your time. >> well as you can see he is truly an expert and he loves what he does and i thank him for that explanation, that was like an 8-hour class that we got in 20 minutes. and moving on will be the captain and he will give an overview of the gun laws in the state of california. >> good evening, commissioners, chief, director. thank you very much, i'm dennis oleary from the chief's office. first i would like to let you

know that the question was what are the four more commonly enforced gun laws in san francisco? and now, commissioner mazzucco they have changed the laws and the numbers are different. so what used to be like 12025, and 12031 is now a new series. but any way, the most common guns are carrying concealed with firearm and carrying a loaded firearm, someone that is prohibited from carrying a gun is caught carrying a gun and then carrying a stolen gun and that is what the 496 charge is. and california has like angela was saying, has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the state that makes it and it is difficult to buy a gun, where people have to in california, the firearms dealer has to be licensed and there is

background checks and ten-day waits. that has been standard for many years. and there are limits on how many guns can be purchased and it goes on about the record keeping and particularly it talks about our gun laws penalize access for children due to negligent storage. so there was mention of the new york law, i believe was modeled on the california law. and there are two like, you can own a gun in california. but there are two, there are people that cannot have a gun and there are certain guns that you cannot have. so in california, it prohibts certain people from having a gun, if you are a felon or if you are an addict you cannot have a gun. if you are subject to a court order, while that is in effect,

you can't have a gun. whether it is a restraining, order or an injunction you can't have a gun if it says so, also if you have a history of mental illness you can't have a gun. also if you are probation and the probation says that you can't have a gun, then during the course of your probation, no gun. and also, it is not that well known, but if you are a ward of the juvenile court because of an offense you cannot own a gun until you turn 30 years old. >> any questions about that part? >> yes, sir? >> captain, 496 is not a specific gun provision, though, it is a general prohibition against stolen property and often the guns are stolen property,; is that correct??

>> correct. >> it is just a charge that we get a lot of stolen. it is like the fourth most common charge for somebody put on a gun. if it is a charge higher than the other three,... >> the exposure for the 496 i think is 16 months and up to four years. >> two or three. >> two or three, thank you. >> i just have one question and this might be a better question for the chief. but, we are talking about arm and prohibited persons and i know that the california department of justice has the apps list which tell us what people in san francisco are armed and prohibited from having a weapon. with the staffing issues the department of justice did sweeps to get the guns from other counties, i don't think that they worked with us.

>> they did. we did too. >> okay, great. and is there any interest in renewing that effort? >> yeah. i mean, we did, we scooped up quite a few guns. >> okay. >> i know that several of them came out of the bay view at the time when i was at the bay view. >> okay. >> in fact when jerry brown left the attorney general's office, just at the end of his tenure, the list came out and it was so large, that it was desiminated and they would use the officer on patrol to locate the people and the guns. >> it is not an easy thing, these are people that are armed and prohibited from being armed and so there is officer safety issue and you need to have a large term. i know that on an ongoing basis, we are advised for the people in the county. for us to be thinking about in terms of supporting the department, that certainly is a high priority and not something

that is easily done, and to the extent that we could do that to the ongoing ba sis would be great. and i know that it is resource heavy. okay. so that pretty much dedescribes the people that can't have a gun. now there are guns that you can't have and officers? >> the people on the people that can have a gun? >> sure. >> you said that your presentation said that those addicted to narcotic drugs, how is that judged? by some type of court order? >> or? >> the judge says, tell us that the person is an addict. >> that is usually in the probation. >> where is this information sent? once a person has been adjudicated, to be addicted to

narcotics and no longer able to have a firearm, where? >> california has a data base, a cini, data base and that is where the data base that an officer will conduct an investigation for local, state and national and international sometimes. and it is there at the state level, that it can be found. >> and anybody that fits into any fp the categories that you listed they all go to the same place, they are on the same list. >> yes. >> if i could just say what they did which was smart here, on the attorney general's office, here is the list of the people that are prohibited and this is the list of people that have guns and why don't we put the two lists together which is amazing, and i could get a gun and in a year later i am convicted of domestic violence and i am no longer able to have that gun, but there was not an mechanism absent of a officer

going to the house and retrieving that weapon. that data is there and the ongoing issue is the resources for the documents especially on the local level for everybody to get out and do that in the way that is safe for the officers. >> good point, thank you. >> and then there are certain guns that you cannot possess. and so we had a presentation that talked about the rifles and basically ak series, and ar series, the cult ar series you are prohibited from possessing them. the semi, automatic rifles with the fixed magazine, that will take more than ten rounds. a 30, something that has less than 30 inches of length. and then, there is, there are the law gives us describes features on a gun, that makes it an assault rifle, things

such as a pistol grip. different kinds of stocks, a full meter stock and a grenade or flare launcher, these are military items and a flash suppresser, of these that i show you, the one that is going to be the greatest and the ones that will be the greatest danger to the public are the folding stock, and the flash suppresser. the folding stock makes it more concealable and the flash suppresser makes it concealable when it is being used. you cannot see the round and the officer cannot locate the suspect because of the flash. there is no flash. and so, that is why, you know, these laws are in effect. so what makes a gun, an assault weapon, a pistol on assault weapon. well, it, again, goes to having a threaded barrel and that has to do with not only the ability to accept a silencer, but the