♪ you got the low fee, and you're going to take it. ♪ you're going to make it in the city after all. ♪ you're going to make it in the city after all. and i'll be saying -- ♪ this time he and she and her house is gone, only darkness every day, ain't no sunshine when it's all gone, and they're always gone. ♪ every time these prices come along. ♪ wonder this time where she's gone. ♪ she's gone away. ♪ ain't no sunshine when she's gone. ♪ she's gone where she can afford to pay, hey, hey. ♪ now, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, i know, leave that price alone. ♪ ain't no sunshine city hall --

when the price is high is gone. ♪ and i got to be me, i got to have low housing fee, what else can i be, but have low fee. ♪ i won't settle down, won't settle for less, if the price can have it all. ♪ and i'll have it all, city hall. ♪ i'll go it alone if i have to be -- have low fee. ♪ i want to settle down, and have price for less, and laugh all the best. ♪ city hall, you fix the rest. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker please. >> can't top that. my name is brian, i represent a

six unit building in district 3 in russian hill. we're a big variety of owners who got school teacher, accountant, salesperson, freelance journalist and city employee. so i think we represent some cross-section of san francisco. we never evicted anybody in our building but at the same time one of our owners -- two of our owners had kids, they had to move out, they weren't able to sell their unit so they're stuck renting and losing money every month. it's hurting them and their ability to get started in their new lives. i think for a lot of us, myself included, it feels like a bit of a waste to paying an extra point and a half to our mortgage every month to the bank. we would much rather give it to the city than give it to the banks, in the form of this affordable housing fee at a time when the city can use it. and so i'm in support of the

legislation and i hope you guys will consider it. thanks. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> hi. my name is -- schubert, first time homeowners. i've been renting many years before that, living in a t.i.c. in a three unit building, together with my wife we moved in, in 2005. we did not evict anybody. we've been playing the lottery since then, a few times -- condo convert, have been able to do, a few things have changed since then, one thing is mortgage situation and market, second we have a three-year-old kid right now and we're in the situation we cannot really move within the city realistically, given all the prices in the market. we cannot refinance. we have tried, we're not able to do so, given the known situations in the market, and we cannot rent out without losing opportunity to really play the lottery.

so we ask you to support the legislation. it's a win/win. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> hello. my name is frank, i'm a homeowners in san francisco and got my start 32 years ago in a t.i.c. i came to support the backlog of t.i.c. conversion units to condo. however i do say that preference should be given to buildings where all the units are owner occupied and were purchased without an eviction. when a renter like me entered a t.i.c. process, he or she does remove a unit of rental stock but also decreases demand for rental stock by one unit. when it converted the composition of the housing stock is not affected only the mechanism of ownership but this is important. ting t.i.c. results in more

flexibility. housing stock is improved as --- physical system awch as plumbing and wiring are brought up to code. while affordable housing stock is scarce in san francisco, for rental, affordable housing for purchase is also very scarce. and t.i.c. or condo is the most affordable type of owner housing. increasing the housing stock is critical for both rental and owner housing. last friday the chronicle indicated that several thousand apartments are in the pipeline for delivery over the next three years. less than 10% of these will be available to be converted to condos. while many of the apartments will be outrageously priced there will be some move-up renters which should open some apartments. only about a third of san franciscans own their homes

and two-thirds nationally own their home. this indicates a backlog of demand for home ownership. trying to address the conversion backlog will help meet this demand. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> [speaking foreign language] >> translator: my name is june chan. i'm speaking on behalf of our families living in sros. right now,i'm paying my rent 70% of my income goes to my rent, even in a sro.

if this legislation were to pass, we could see that lots off units will become without rent control. already, we have seen a lot of rent increases going on.

so, at the end, families i ask will be affected with higher rent, even evictions. so i urge you to not to pass this legislation. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. before you start, i'm going to call a few more names. >> good evening. >> chair wiener: one moment please. one moment please. >> just one? >> chair wiener: yeah. ashley lyon -- >> [speaking foreign language] >> chair wiener: it's okay. we'll do it after he speaks. >> [speaking foreign language] i'm a volunteer in the city. cta have -- members low income

families. no more money to pay high rent. we need affordable housing. please keep the safe land control housing. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. actually, let me call a few. ashley lyon, michelle, denise, terry, linda, darren bridges, joanne, mark brian, lorenzo, cizi, karen fishkin, peter

cohen, fernando, carolyn, bryce, david feather stone, andy, lisa garcía. go ahead. >> thank you. good afternoon. my name is steve wu. i'm representing tenderloin neighborhood development corporation. and we are also a member of the council for community housing organizations. we've taken a position opposed to the legislation primarily because we see t.i.c.s as cannibalizing the existing rental housing stock. our rental housing stock is critical to preserve in maintaining the affordability in san francisco's housing. we believe that, furthermore, that the uncapping the conversion condo conversion cap will further incentivize more

t.i.c.s forming from our existing rental housing stock, thus leading to -- exacerbating the affordability problem in san francisco. furthermore, the the fee, we have questions about the fee, for bypassing the conversion lottery. it's set as high as 20,000 but as low as 4,000. this is substantially lower than the in lieu fee that the mayor's office of housing has set forth of construction for bmr units through new condominium construction which is as low as 175 -- as high as 175,000 per unit. we're afraid that this fee -- the small scale of this fee could create a competition between condominium developers, thus incentivizing condo existing condo developers to choose the cheaper option and

lessening the mayor's office of housing or housing funds coffers in terms ever funds for affordable housing. so we have serious concerns about the way the fee was calculated and would like more information on that. regardless, the last thing i want to say is -- sorry. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is -- i also work as a community organizer with tmbc and as a member of council of community housing organizations. we also do not support this legislation, and i also want to talk about unintended consequences. i think both the city attorney's office and dhw talked about not really having the -- or the budget and not knowing what -- who will oversee the actual enforcement of the life long lease, and also the question came up about like what actual protections do tenants have, after -- eviction and all kinds

of eviction that the landowners can do-u either threatening the ones that are not really recorded so we don't know how clean these buildings are. so we just want to support other renters and the tenants who have the right to stay here. it's just interesting to see so many of the t.i.c. owners talking about wanting to stay in the city. it's true. i think it's shameful that this ordinance pits san franciscans against each other when all of them are saying that we want to stay here, we want to raise our families here. and i think the actual answer is not this one-time kind of band-aid solution that pits people against each other but looking at new housing and new construction that can actually help middle class families to stay here. so in the spirit of unity with a lot of the people who came out to support prop "c" and also the housing trust fund, i think we should work together instead of trying to fight each other. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker.

>> hole wil.>> my name is rine n of the ordinance that you're trying to push through. it's really a shame that it's coming through and creating divisions between people that want to raise their family in the city and are unable to and through low income renters. both sides are agreeing that the predatory loans that we're taking out is the real issue. also it really steams to be a half-assed legislation in that there is not capacity or ability to enforce the number control, as pointed out earlier that the current number of 200 conversions is well over that. so i think that needs to be taken into account as well, that if you're introducing something to make sure that the legislation supports the enforcement, and the ability to make sure that you're actually doing what you're proposing. thank you.

>> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon. i'm sheila, i live in wiener's district. i'm in a three unit t.i.c. and our building has been in the lottery for 11 years now. we're heading into our eighth year in the lottery. like most people here we have young family and we just want to have some housing security and i'd like to be able to raise our kids here and t.i.c. was the only way to do that. to give you perspective on what our mortgage means we have a three unit building and we pay 6.7% mortgage loan, interest only because that's all we can get and we don't qualify for refinancing. collectively our units paid $100,000 in interest last year and i would be more than happy to give some of that to san francisco instead. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> my name is alex, i -- for the proposal, the conversion of t.i.c. to condominiums.

it's good for the tenant -- they can get a lifetime warranty for the lease and they are still under rent control. and only t.i.c., they get freedom to lower interest and get freedom of enjoy their life. i came from new york in 1970 and i remember san francisco very peaceful. the population of -- about a quarter million, something like now. i rent and apartment, two bedroom with a beautiful garage and a beautiful bathroom. i pay only 200. but now the same apartment rent for over 2,000. do you know why, the rent control killed industry. the landlord, they refuse to run away anymore. i own property but i refuse to rent anymore. and, also, my friends and -- in san francisco, they refuse to -- their property away. it -- beg demand for the

property. and then i think san francisco the problem is the rent control killed the society. that's not freedom. is economy. if ms. jane came -- go to china to come in this country, there's no rent control. if you go to vietnam, there is no rent control. if they come to this country they find beautiful houses being built, every year, every month. they create lot of house. then i pray for this conversion of t.i.c. to condominium. it's fair to the landlord and also fair to the tenants. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> actually call my name but i have to pick up my kid. can i speak? >> chair wiener: go ahead. >> sorry. my name is bobby i'm a wife and mother and lived in our unit for eight years and our entire building is owner occupied. we want to convert for all the reasons stated from those ahead

of me. we pay 7% on our loan and we could be three and a quarter if we were a condo. the easier transferability due to life changes. one thing i wanted to address was the flipping concern and it's kind of maddening to be characterized as a greedy flipper. we -- and probably most t.i.c. owners don't stand to make a fortune when a unit converts. the conversion starts at 30,000 and then there are the tens of thousands of dollars that you have to spend to bring thible up to code. then if you do so there's another 6% realtor fees and other closing costs so i think few t.i.c. owners will become wealthy off this process. i'd also -- obviously like to ask the committee to pass this legislation. the vast majority of units in question are already owner occupied. they're off the rental market. no rebilitial units are being

lost. i would like to see somebody recognize this and stand up or minority rights. with lifetime leases provided with rent control as well as funds going to the affordable housing funds and property taxes going to the city when units eventually turn over, no one loses. id ask the committee make decisions based on the facts and support homeowners support those protected and put money in the coffers which will help everyone. thank you, supervisors wiener and farrell for your proposal of balanced legislation. thanks for letting me speak too. >> chair wiener: thank you very much and thank you for being honest. next speaker. >> high there. i'm a san francisco resident for 13 years. i'm a t.i.c. owner and previous renter for many years. all of my co-owners in my six unit t.i.c. were once renters also. we are not opposed to rent control.

i just wanted to make that clear. the lottery system is so outdated and overburdened and with the current backlog it may be over 10 years before being eligible for conversions. we're not trying to make a quick buck because our units have lost a significant amount of value since we purchased. we're previous renters who are looking to purchase a home to have stable housing in san francisco. we contribute to san francisco and we invest in san francisco. we are all moderate income households. we include a retired gm who is a renter for many years and wanted the security of owning his own home and t.i.c. was the only affordable option for him. another co-owner is having difficulties with current mortgage payments and faces challenges as options are so limited for t.i.c. this bypass covers just a drop in the ocean of housing stock in san francisco. it really doesn't affect tenants

or their protections so i ask you to please support this. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> good afternoon. my name is beth palmer, and i'm a native san franciscan, born at what used to be children's hospital on california street. i was a renter in the city from 1988 to 2007 when, along with the three other units in my building we all purchased, all of the other three unit owners are renters in the city as well. so to echo the comments of the last few people this isn't taking away rental units. we are renters and now owners. if anything the present system is keeping rental units off the market because owners like myself will remain in our community to meet the occupancy requirements. so whether there's a young calm couple who would like to move out of the city, maybe like more room, maybe buy another single

family home as one of the speakers mentioned they're restricted from doing that so they're staying in the units rather than putting them back on the rental market. i wanted to thank supervisors farrell and wiener. i'm in supervisor farrell's district. i've lived in a number of different neighborhoods. i've lived in the tender knob, north beach and cow hollow. i wanted to register my support and also register the support of my fellow owners. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> my name is josephine, my family of seven lives in district five. i speak for joe-joe, still in the audience, mr. jow-jow, and ruby lee still in the audience and other monolingual chinese speaker who will have to leave by now or too shy to speak.

we also speak for 152 families from asian-american voters.org. we support rent control law. many of us are or having renters. many of us are still renters some years, some years to go into home ordinancesship. by -- home ownership, in order to buy a home. we speak for cindy, her family has been on the waiting list for eight years and she's on the verge of foreclosure and be homeless. we speak for joe-jow who sits in the audience because he's disabled. he has to pay two-thirds of his disability into his home and withdraw money from 401-k to remortgage due to they can't refinance. we owe a lifetime lease.

we support the stability of rental housing. we want peaceful coexistence. why can't we be supported reciprocally -- financial independence. it will not be fair that homeowners have to sleep on the street while others watch and not help. let's help each other out and make san francisco home for everyone. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you very much. next speaker. >> supervisors kim, wiener, and chiu, thank you for your time, my name is ashley, i'm a first time homeowners and first time renter. i've lived in a t.i.c. in my unit for eight years and lived in the city for 12. i'm not a millionaire, i'm not a speculator, and imnot against rent control. i think it's a real shame that in san francisco that our land use policies have put renters against former renters and look to you to help solve that problem which is why i thank

supervisors wiener and farrell for taking courage to address this particular issue. housing stability should be available for all. and there's some crazy irony at work here that i'd have a better chance of attaining that housing stability as renting my own unit, rather than having taken the step to actually own it as a t.i.c. owner. i believe the legislation that supervisors wiener and farrell have put forward very carefully addresses the -- some concerns of all stakeholders. we're addressing by raising a significant amount of money to go into affordable housing. we know that specifically because of the provisions any buildings that have been ellis acted are not eligible for the conversion, nor are they under the current lottery process. so therefore any linkage between future ellis act and buildings going to t.i.c. in the condo bypass lottery should fall on deaf ears. lastly, i think you shouldn't

have to give up your unit as an other than in order to gain -- owner in order to gain financial stability in san francisco. thank you. >> chair wiener: thank you. let me call more names. amy wagner, cole ryan, gabriela, cole, tony robe less, sharea short, dean preston, wu, william hahannon, mir nah, amy wagner, v inia, greg, bobby, jennifer ly lyon. go ahead. thank you. you can see from the crowd that just came up that some people maybe have cut in line, but thank you. go ahead. >> my name is jennifer. i actually hate public speaking but this issue is so important

to me that i'm going to make an exceptions. i'm a first time homeowner, a long time renter in san francisco. this legislation is important. it provides protection not only for renters that are in their unit, but for families that have been in t.i.c.s and have been struggling for a long time. the same protections afforded to me as a renter to make sure my rent didn't skyrocket out of control are not in place for t.i.c. owners. the mortgage issue has that impact on us. and our futures are not bright. i thank you so much for putting this it legislation forward. it makes the world of difference for hard-working families in san francisco, and i just thank you. please support it. >> chair wiener: thank you. next speaker. >> good afternoon, supervisors. my name is michelle, representing the affordable housing alliance approximate i want to say two things in the short time there is here. i think that your confidence that no tenants will be hurt in

this process is misplaced. the low that prohibits conversion after ellis conversions is limited but also what counts as an ellis eviction. only properly noticed and filed ellis evictions get caught in the system. that's the tip of the iceberg. most in street parlance are people are told it's going to be an ellis and move out. we don't know much more than the tip of the iceberg in terms of which buildings have been ellised in the past. going forward to protect tenants who still remain you're trying to give them lifetime leases. there's another serious set of concerns around lifetime leases and the costa hawkins, which we've discussed at length in other context. here it's a little different than parkmerced because we have to deal with a different provision of costa hawkins which is the single family home exemption which i believe raises

serious problems for lifetime leases going forward. that deserves more discussion and more work. the second thing is what kind of perspective i think you should be taking on this. i'm a tenant advocate i helped pass the original ban, i singlele handedly defeated prop r, and prop n and worked with a lot of people to defeat prop r in 2002 but you need to look at the big picture, moving beyond the interest of the tenants and t.i.c. owners and you will see two things. one, t.i.c. ownership is inferior form of ownership and they need assistance and it's probably not good for the city to have people hanging around with this cumbersome bad ownership. number two the city needs affordable rental housing, we need to maintain the existing stock. >> chair wiener: thank you. thank you.