>> again, preaching -- >> preaching to the choir, chief, i know. >> there is no statute of limitations on homicides. they will never be closed. they will always be transitioned to the next investigator. we had talked before. we are aware of who the number one suspect is and that's just coming up with what we would need to put a case before a jury is the problem. >> maybe we'll catch a break on that case. thank you. >> and every person that possessed a firearm was a prohibitive person, but not every firearm possessed was an assault rifle, but there were some in there. >> thank you. call line item 2b. >> item 2b, o kirk kerkorian c director's report, discussion. review of recent activities, occ's budget presentation for fiscal year 2013-2014. >> thank you. good evening, director hicks. good evening, president mazzucco, chief sur, and members of the audience. you have before you a report from the occ dated today that

sets forth the occ's budget reduction target for 2013-14 and 2014-15 budget cycles. in spite of these reduction targets, we have three goals in our budget, and that is to maintain current staffing, to obtain a $40,000 augmentation for vehicle replacement, and to obtain funding for two new positions. the occ's budget reduction targets are 39,308 for two years running. our baseline budget is $4.6 million, but it includes $4.1 million in personnel costs which, like the police department, comprise 89% of our budget. the personnel cost fund 34.75 positions. the remainder of our budget is for operations. but of that $4 88,000 for

operations, 63% of it goes to rent our space at 25 van ness avenue. to meet the 1.5 budget -- 1.5% budget reduction two years running, it would be a total of $78,000. and since we do not have discretionary money anywhere else, we would need to eliminate an investigator position that would reduce our journey level investigators to 16. and then with that saving, we would purchase two hybrid vehicles. our vehicles are 1999 vehicle, one is a crown victoria that we inherited from the police department. the other is a honda civic. under the city's environmental policies, we must retire these vehicles by 2015, yet there is no money in our budget for replacement.

going back to 2007, when the city controller issued its recommendations for occ process improvement, they stated that best practices is for investigators to have 16 cases. with the staffing, 17 investigators and an office inventory, case inventory of 300 cases, an investigator's caseload would average 18 cases and with 16, an investigator's caseload would average 19. that's assuming everyone is in place. however, we have one investigator out on parenting leave and another one will soon follow her. so, it does reduce the number of investigators when folks go out. we have refrained from filling two of the 17 investigator positions until our budget showed enough money to fund them.

we are underfunded in salaries. in one of its recommendations, the controller's office determined that occ investigation should be completed within nine months or 10 months at the latest. what i have seen in patternses of case completion is that with more investigators, the number of days it takes to close cases is going down. however, what is slowing us down particularly in sustained cases that we have an inadequate legal staffing because when you consider that there are 16 or 15 investigators producing cases and they're funneling to 2-1/2 lawyers who are reviewing them, then that is where our cases slow down and the time it take to complete sustained cases has not really reduced in the last -- in the last several years.

additionally, we have inadequate information system technology staffing. we have all 34.75 positions, only one information systems technology business analyst. that's [speaker not understood]. you've met him at presentations of the annual report, and he is responsible for an incredible number of things. from the hardware, that is, when we replace our pcs or our laptopses, he is the one who installs them. and it is not a simple installation because we have databases that he has to install and customize on computers. in addition to that, he's responsible for creating databases, amending them, tweaking them for interfacing with our consultants such as the project that we have for

online complaint filing. he's responsible for our server maintenance and the like. and, so, what i am proposing in staffing is an additional attorney and a new position which is an information systems business analyst assistant. i've talked about the occ's aging cars and how no matter what, they must be retired in 2015. and we use the cars in this case. our chief investigator rolls out to every officer involved shooting and, so, the chief investigator has a car 24/7.

the rest of the investigators rely on one -- the other car, and that car is used or the investigators to go out in field and also for our support staff to make deliveries and pick up deliveries from the hall of justice. so, in conclusion, without a budget augmentation for staff and replacing two object -- obsolete cars t would affect the effectiveness and efficiency of the office of com platev. and that conclude my report. >> thank you very much, commissioner de jesus. >> you're going to have to bear with me. i'm not really great at numbers. some numbers are jumping out at me. on page 2, it says on the first paragraph that with 16 investigators, the caseload would be 19 cases. but the occ is referring to fulfilling 17 of the investigators, i came up with 15.

>> we do have 15 now. >> all right. and the question is how long have you had 15 or 16 or whatever it is? >> how long have we had -- >> yes, how long has it been vacant? you said you haven't filled the two seats. i guess how long have they been vacant? >> they have been vacant this entire fiscal year. >> go ahead. >> and when one of them was added in the budget process last year, we were to refrain from filling that until the beginning of the second quarter. but in looking at our budget numbers, because the budgeted amount for salaries has not gone up with salary increases, we were not able to fill either of those positions until we achieve some salary savings. >> and i guess i don't

understand that when you say salary savings. are you dividing -- i mean, are you saving that spot and dividing the salary -- are you meeting your salary with those spots sf or are you just not filling those spots? * >> well, there are unpaid leaves that occur and that has resulted in some savings. we have requested the list so that we can fill the positions. we are prepared to conduct the interviews. >> and i guess that's good. i heard that. you have a list that you can pick from. if not, you have -- >> excuse me. >> sorry. >> you don't have to go out from a whole hiring thing, you have a list you can pick from? >> we have a civil service list of 81 24 candidates and we will be conducting interviews. >> okay. and i guess that's where i was going at. if we have 15, the number of current case investigators would be higher unless you hire -- >> that is true.

>> do you anticipate hiring this year from the list or -- >> yes. commissioner de jesus, we have requested names from the department of human resources and, so, we are waiting. however -- >> go ahead. however. >> we would have to caution whomever we hire that a position could be lost as a result of the budget reduction target. >> so, then, if we're cutting an investigator, we have to bring on an attorney, is that for this year or the following two years? beginning of the two-year budget? like lose the 17th investigator and then get an attorney? >> commissioner de jesus, that is not at all what i am proposing in the budget. what i'm proposing in the budget is an augmentation. in other words, additional monies to hire those two new

positions, not to replace any investigator position. >> all right. okay. and, so, then the last payingverctiontion, forgive me, i'm sure it's a typo, i want to clarify. the last sentence says the remaining 21 investigators. >> 20. [laughter] >> i was like, okay, where did they come from? >> that's a typo because the chief investigator is one plus the 20. 17, 81 24s and three 81 26s. i commend you on your sharp eyes. >> on those little numbers i can handle. i can't even attempt to look at the police department's budget. okay, and that's all. the only concern i had was trying to maintain 100% compliance of the controller's recommendations. i know the investigate investigators are really key to that. * when i see it not being filled, i'm concerned. not that you have a problem with the caseload, it's just that we should try to comply with the controllers as much as

we can. that's all i want to point out. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you, director hicks. another presentation. again, we're at an advantage this year because we did a two-year budget. this is where we're tinkering with the budget. that's great. again like to thank the mayor's office for what they've done so far. maybe they can do a little better for us. >> you're welcome. thank you, president mazzucco. >> please call line item 2c. >> commission reports, discussion. commission president's report, commissioners reports. >> i have nothing to report this evening. commissioners, anything? >> i do. it's going to be very brief, my fellow vice president and commissioner dr. merkel. the chief had -- the department had a second taser meeting of which commissioners, commissioner turman and myself and commissioner kingsley, i was going to say commissioner

loft us, that's weird. i'm the third person and now i'm talking out loud. good. we had that meeting this week on monday and it was at the scottish right center. we had a good turnout from the community, maybe 25 or 30 folks. it was the same more casual interactive opportunity. the chief, i know, got a lot of positive feedback for taking direct questions. we got to ask follow-up questions. so, so far it's been really informative. we've heard from a broad group of constituencies. and we have our -- the department has their final meeting on monday, february 11th at the bayview opera house. and it's at 6. the chief just queued me. 6 to 8 and we would like to encourage, this is the last of the scheduled meetings. so, we'd really like to encourage anyone who hasn't had a chance to come out. it's not only just for bayview. so, anyone from around the city is invited to attend. so, it will be from 6:00 to

8:00 on monday, february 11th. >> great, thank you. you i want to thank all the commissioners who are attending the chief's meetings on this issue and it's great. commissioner de jesus. >> i've been getting calls from the community * . and one of the things i am very concerned about the tasers, my understanding is we have a committee set up, i believe there are three commissioners who are attending, and i've been told if i attend it's going to be a quorum. that's the reason i haven't been to these meetings, everybody who is listening. and i appreciate that. i appreciate your reporting back to us at some of the committee members [speaker not understood]. i have heard a lot of people are not very happy with the tasers, though. i'd like to be there to see that. that's what i'm getting back -- [multiple voices] >> we had talked about that. if i could switch out it would be nice. i had not been there, there is a reason i'm not there, but i am getting calls and people are concerned. and -- >> are they concerned you're not there? >> they're concerned i'm not there, that's right. >> but you just explained to

them we can't have more than three there. >> i don't want tasers coming back and i can't participate in the meeting because i'm not there. you know how i think. >> part of the reason is the two commissioners from the 2011 resolution, it says there's two commissioners and they added a third one. and part of what we're supposed to do is report our findings and, so, the meetings are recorded also is the other thing. but i'm sure people want to make sure you're there and oven indicating. no decisions will be made. the full commission will hear our finding and recommendations and we will report them back to you. >> i appreciate that. * >> i'm glad you said that. people would want to know why you're there -- why you're not there. >> we also have the minutes, inspector row, and we received the minutes from the first meeting. i wasn't at the second one. i switched out with commissioner kingsley so i look forward to seeing those minutes, too. >> please call line item 2d. >> commission announcements and scheduling of items identified for consideration of future commission meetings. >> commissioners, is there anything that we need to

schedule? let's start with announcements first. >> the next meeting, next commission meeting will be here at city hall room 400. excuse me, on february 13th, and we'll be dark on february 20th. there will be no meeting. and then on february 27th we'll be in the northern district in the community at st. vincent dee paul school. that's at 2350 green street between pearson and steiner. >> and also for that meeting st. paul, we invited supervisors farrell and supervisor breed for her first meeting as a supervisor to help out in the attendance. >> that's correct. >> that's the 27th. so, anything else, commissioners, like that? i know agendas are kind of packed at this point, but we are making progress. okay, hearing none, we now have public comment online items 2a, b, c and d.

hello again, jeremy. good evening again, commission. i would like to thank the police department particularly sergeant prudo and his associate who spoke on the budget matters for a very informative discussion. a few serious concerns, and these are not new, but i believe warrant reiteration at this point in time. the first concern is that the return to duty process occurs before the majority of the investigative process is over. this is a serious concern to the public because it bodes that an officer can be returned to duty while ongoing criminal misconduct, including homicide investigations can be occurring and unconclusive. furthermore, the divergence in

evidencery standards in the different processes * is also quite disconcerting. i wonder why it is probable cause is the standard for declaring whether or not a crime has occurred. and it's very unclear whether that is just on behalf of the civilian and interaction with the police or on behalf of the officer themselves. and yet the d.a. once presented with homicide evidence is held to a beyond a shadow of doubt -- >> i think you're seeing that wrong. it's a lower standard that officers are -- the higher standard is to convict of a crime. the lower standard is the one used to determine whether or not it was justified or not. no, no, i understand that. i'm clear on that. what i'm not clear on, it says here in this presentation, it was stated that the d.a. has to provide beyond a shadow of a doubt as -- what's that? >> it's in criminal court. that's in the court.

so, that's -- that clarifies that. nevertheless, nevertheless, it's still -- these different standards, the administrative review again being a lesser standard can work both ways. that gives a lot of room on either side, on either side of it and it not even being admissible in court when potentially a finding has been made of potential criminally it. very dangerous. so, i think that this warrants further scrutiny and review both by this body and the public. * finally in terms of budgetary matters, i know my time is short here. i wonder of the 9 million and 13.6 million for nonpersonnel professional services, how much of that money has been accounted for in terms of paying for tasers and/or crisis intervention team training and equipment? i think that that's highly

relevant given the discourse at this time. >> if i may, chief, can i ask you a question? what i understand and that is a process that's in place that everyone has agreed on, you also have the power to [speaker not understood] anybody you think immediately you think might be -- >> again, this is the lower standard is the standard by which i have discretion to make a call. the higher standard is the higher threshold to make. so, you don't want to have the higher threshold to make a call. you can't the lower threshold to do the right thing. >> and you also have the ability -- >> yes, and i can and i have. as far as the tasers go, there is no mention of and/or hasn't been a dime spent on tasers and it's not in the budget. >> any further public comment? >> clarity is always good. >> hearing none, public comment is now closed. please call the next item,

which is line item number 3. >> line item 3, adjournment. >> do i have a motion? >> move to adjourn. >> all in favor? >> aye. >> jeremy. >> and i would like [speaker not understood] on the bridge. [adjourned]