february, 2013. so, i mean, because we are in the middle of february, and so, now, they have to go back and do three out reach, by the end of february. and if that does not happen, then that is it and then it does not happen? >> miss king? >> is that a question? >> yeah, that is kind of a question as to what happens, you know, when it is not february any more? >> well, again, i think that we have had this discussion before about the weight we can legally put on neighbor out reach. and whether or not there is any basis in the law for you to take any action against them if they don't comply with the request by this commission relative to out reach. we know how important it is and we know that it is very useful, in advance of and obviously of the things coming forward but, i don't know that we can take punitive action if that is what you are asking me. >> i don't see how we can do

that. >> i tend to agree. >> you are done. >> any other questions? >> are they currently operating after 2:00 >> yeah. >> that is why... >> i get it now. >> not after this moment. >> so, to that end, we have to do something and maybe a larger type face that every time a conditional permit is granted, that it says you may not operate until this permit is finalized. because the people walk out of here and think that they have a permit. >> just for historical, i don't know, value, or whatever. we used to have them sign something and i have to get up after i would do this presentation to the commission and i would run after them out of the door and get them to sign something that says that i

understand. none of that is fool proof. for the most part the process that we take the people through, you know, leads them to a point that the only thing that i can request commission continue to do which used to get done, routinely instead of saying good luck, remind them that they are not permitted until all of the inspections are done. if you want to hold up a sign, i am fine with that too. but, this is a long process for many people and it is not the easyist one to move through. for us it becomes routine, but for them it is still a daunting practice of you know, 8 departments and a million conditions. so, whatever we can all do to help make applicants understand and they are not done until they are done and i would appreciate it. >> so, commissioners? >> whoever has the chair, when they have the chair? >> instead of saying good luck, say it is not a permit until it

is finalized. >> item number seven, commissioners questions and comments? anybody? >> no? >> i just want to announce next tuesday, cmax is having an open house at super club with the warriors and they are going to show the stadium and what they propose and everything, so the public is welcome. >> is that after you attend the 90s? >> that is. >> that is tuesday. sorry. >> i am on the wrong week, forgive me. >> let me check my calendar. >> but it is at 6:00 and it is after work for two hours. and so everybody is welcome to come. >> yeah, i mean i have some questions about the community out reach and what the direction the commission is going to take, where we are going with have this or giving more guidance or having more structure. i know that this is something that commissioner hyde is very

interested in. and i mean, like, in this situation, where we have an applicant who says that they are doing out reach, but, that was further investigation, we have learned that that is not really what is happening. so, do, and i don't see like, a sample script or here is a sign-off, sheet that you must present, that you spoke to so many people and a sample script that would be hi, i'm from so and so and, is this is the application that we are trying to do and open until 3:00, etc. so where are we? is this something that is a long-term goal? >> well, i work for you. so if that is something that would you like, however, i will just say that there is a danger in doing the work for applicants for them. i mean, the same as handing them a security plan and saying here is a sample, why don't you do a security plan like this

one and then you are going to get the same-sexty plan back at you. writing a script for somebody implies that they are not cap able as a business person to actually do their own out reach. and i guess that i am just speaking personally. i have a problem with that. because what i want them to present to you as commissioners is who they actually are, and their capability. if we at the entertainment commission lead them so far down a path that they present to you something that they can't sustain, then you are getting a false sense of what they are going to be doing as a operator going forward. it is really important that you see what we see. so i hear you and maybe there is a middle ground because i have been doing this a long time. we have tried to spoon feed as much as possible to a point where we think that it is important that they, i don't know, how else to say this... >> swallow... >> i tend to agree with her.

because, if you are going to start a business, i think that some of the things that you should do is you should research what that business is. what permits do i need? what are the pitfalls? what is a good business plan? i mean, do i need an employee manual? do i need a security manual? do i have to pay payroll tax? do i have to pay property tax? you should do your due diligence. and the more people that do due diligence and actually operate with care, especially in night life and entertainment which is a public safety issue, can be a public safety issue, are people who become the better operators. the people who care about their patrons and that is kind of tend to say that we point out that you need to fill out every line of the application. and that you need to provide us with sufficient information, not yes, no, you have to explain it. we have modified the application, several times in order for them to do that.

but to tell them what they should say, i think is i tend to agree with josoline. >> let me add, not necessarily for a script, but a for certain permits have you to provide neighbors with a plan. and have them sign a form that says, they have seen the plan, and that they have been given a number that they can call if they have any problems. that is an example. >> but, yeah, like, if there is like a light impact issue that is going to effect the neighbors, i think that noise is definitely something that i would think merits, i don't want to put the applicants into so much burden to put in an application but there should be some minimum structure and guidance around what out reach looks like. that is not necessarily spoon-feeding them the dialogue. they can figure out themselves how to say it but you have to

cover concern information in an out reach plan. >> there has been some neighborhood out reach, i have seen or we have seen that they have actually had some kind of a form letter or something that people signed or even petitions. again, it is up to the applicant to devise whatever they think is necessary to make us believe that they are going to be good operators. so they can't even figure it out, i mean i am all about references and things, you know, giving them the tools. but they should write their own story. you know? not we write the story for them. >> there are certain pieces to the story that are in the application that should be part of the application. and i get them because i am referenced. so i don't know where we can lead with reference. >> what do you tell them, staff? >> what do you tell them with regard to neighborhood out reach? >> we explain to them that it is surely important that they

do the neighborhood out reach to move through this hearing process. but not only the reasons, do these questions matter quite a bit and a security plan is a very big deal with that neighborhood out reach is vital because we have two representatives of neighbors here. hello. and i have not done this in a while since nicholas has been working with applicants but i am pretty sure that he goes through with a lot of specificity about how likely it is that they will not move through the hearing without having done out reach. we do, or we have given them the url for the neighborhood empowerment, network, website, where they list the community groups to the planning department, where they list the community groups. there is no process like commissioner akers was talking about and commissioner hyde and

i know that we have done an inquiry around how to impose into our process something more formal that does not exist now. that it is more like, what? the planning department may do in terms of process. this will add time and money and effort into our practice and that is again, up to you guys, to impose. >> so let me ask you this. >> if someone comes to us, and it is a permitted use, they don't go through a planning process, right? >> if they come to us and it is a conditional use, they have gone through the planning process and they have done the neighborhood out reach? >> so, conditional... right? so conditional use, people come to us with conditional use and people who have to do 312 notifications and stuff like that. they have already gone through the process and the planning department to make them repeat the process here. it seems a little weird. >> i don't think that you would have to, but i don't think that everyone does go through the conditional use process.

and i think that we have seen tonight that sometimes out reach does not get done. and i also think that there needs to be specific organizations that are listed as to, you know, i don't think that you have to get too nitpicky or whatever you have to have a lot of options. that is the thing, i know for example, japan town, going in to the business next door is not what i consider community out reach and that was from an applicant who had been caught lying about being opened after hours and who the owners were and when these things had come up and time and time those are the people who do not have the ability to do community out reach. i think that that is why i'm questioning why there is not this ability to have it a little more formal. >> right. >> i think that the question though is a little bit like do

you hold their hand through that process and give them such a strong template that everyone does that well? and therefore, that means that they did good community out reach? or do we just let the status quo be and realize that there is going to be these lieers or people that have not done the out reach and we say, hey you don't get a permit or come back to us in a month. you can, did you not yet. >> othat... >> that is sort of what i wanted to do. and the reason that i say that is there are two representatives from the community. >> sure. >> one from the mayor's office and one from the supervisors, so obviously it is enough to have two representatives so this should be some reason we are here and some ability to say, hey, you don't get a permit until you do your due diligence. >> and part of it is not the quantity, it is the quality of neighborhood out reach. >> so, to the next door and

say, not divulging what it is that they are asking for a merit. it needs to be more quality type of permits out reach. suggest to the chair that the subcommittee gets to dig into and understand what the commission's request is, and what actually is done, and what is done in the other departments and do the reach here and now we have run into this numerous times and it comes up and it is obviously, an unanswered question. and it may not in the end result in something that makes all of you happy, again, we have had this conversation, it is set up here so that you guys are not going to agree on everything. >> but, it seems like maybe we need to do a little more research, this is now the third or fourth meeting that we have had this conversation and it never goes anywhere. >> i am all for that and i think that we could form a committee tonight. but i do have a question, the

statute says, that you shall grant the permit unless the following things exist, building health, you know, fire, security plan. those things. that is correct. it does not say, you shall grant a permit unless and you can't grant it unless your neighbors agree. it does not say that. and that would be changing the law and that would be changing or considering entertainment and free speech. and i think that would be a hard road to get. so, i'm suggesting that we do form a subcommittee that might create some policy that this commission might look to as a requirement to make us happy. or requirement towards the conditions on a permit or something like that.

but to do the research and talk to the city attorneys and talk to people in general and find out how you can do it within the framework of the existing law. is that okay with you? >> yeah. >> will you be on the committee? >> yeah. i would like to explore all option and come up with several options that would be possible. >> who else want to be? >> naomi? >> well, so we have two neighbor representatives just an over kill in it. >> i am not a neighborhood. >> i know that you are not. >> you are. >> why don't we do naomi and glendon and bryant, or steven? >> i am interested to see the proposed. >> steven you are in. >> on the broad way ad hoc we had two neighborhood represents. >> i am in. >> i prefer that it is three, i think that it is a deep and complicated issue that is going to require a lot of research. and i think that it is too much

the burden on just two people. so why don't the three of you get together and have why don't you come back the first meeting in april. and report. is that enough time? a month and a half? six weeks? >> if you need more time you can ask for it, but you know? >> i need more time i am going to be gone the last two weeks of march. >> how about the second meeting in april? >> okay. so crystal do you have that second meeting in april? >> come back with something. and you guys, set your own meeting and vote in your own chair and stuff like that. okay? all right. >> anything else in questions? >> thank you very much for doing that. i really appreciate it. >> you are welcome. >> any other questions and comments? >> is there public comment on our questions and comments? >> i could see that you are standing there like waiting for that gun to go off and saying, yes, i am ready to come up and

talk about it. >> good evening, my name is tstephen and i am glad that you are discussing it in something is that i do and one of the starting point could be that your board of supervisors have a list and in order for consistentcy the lists from the various supervisors could be shared so that when an applicant comes in you can say okay, this is a list of lts a working list and at least it is a great starting point. it is kind fp the list does get adjusted because you know there are groups that the new groups form and things of that nature. but, a lot of relevant significant groups have been around for a while. and maybe they have changed their faces. but they still, the groups are in existence. so that is a good starting point. the cu process and the conditional use process, you are going to get out reach that says, okay, it is the nai sayers that say it is compatible and you george to

try to prove that. and it is some of those things are tough to prove and in your jurisdiction you are looking at applications filled out in entirety and you are looking at security plans and noise issues, and those are the kind of things that you weigh in. so there is a little bit of a difference from the two. and it is always nice that you know, people go through step one and then they go to step two. and i don't think that if you go through the first step that you should get a free pass going before you guys. i don't think that that is... i think that there is still needs to be additional. but it is not as heavy of a burden or a heavy load. this gentleman in district six, had he gone to the supervisor office he could have gotten a list and worked off that list. and he would have been in pretty good shape and some districts have more relevant significant or people that are going to voice their opinions.

than other districts. because six has a lot of activity. but, all in all i am glad that you guys are addressing this, there is no one answer that fits all. but the activity leads to productivity. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> >> mark graeny again. >> commissioner joseph, you are absolutely right there is nothing in the code that will allow this community out reach and it is really one of the most important things that they can do. they have had conversations about how do you make the industry stronger because they are constantly being bombarded with tax and craziness and labor issues and labor boards and on and on and on and why is it important? everybody who has an entertainment license, i would say that 99 percent of them have a liquor license and it is not in the code to make the community out reach, but how much money is that person going to save by going at the

beginning and talking to the alliance for better district six, talking to jane kim and getting everybody on their side before they start putting in the protests for the abc because what does that cost them? they get lousy conditions and they have to hire me and spend a bunch of money or somebody to deal with that and maybe they are going to pay the rent for 6 months and then what happens? now they are going into the business weekend and what do they do? >> they start taking chances and book parties that they should not take and bring in promoters and then the police have a problem. you know, in one sense, it is not good to spoon feed them, but in another sense, you got to help these people. because they have so much coming at them and you got to keep them stronger and i think that community out reach is absolutely right there. get them out there talking to people and making friends in the community, and realizing that they are part of a greater community. and help them. because if you don't, you end

up with lousy operators and the people that we see up here, because you know i am always here. the people that you see that don't do the community out reach, they come back and they are shootings and there is craziness and they don't give a damn, and it is like, you know? and so i think that it is important to help them right from the beginning, this is important and this is who you ought to be talking to and get them out there doing it so they don't get the protests on the liquor license >> thank you, any other public comment? >> public comment is closed. >> commissioners i want to thank, commissioner hyde because our bedazzled gavel is so entertainment commission, it is so cool. all right? >> that was from the harvey milk from for my birthday made last year, by dee lightener. naoe. i am bringing it to be here in the office because other than cracking my roommate over the head i have no use for it at home.

>> all right. any items for the next agenda? >> seeing none, i move to adjourn. gong hoe san francisco inian ass donna here with the weekly buzz and i hope you have ready for a week of -- this week is all about the celebration here are my top picks all this week from the 16th to the 24th you can experience mechanical police at peer 39 transforms into a bay side floral wonder land during the tulips annual pheses

actively and enjoy landscaping course live with vibrant colors of tumultuouses of blooming tulip and is make sure bring your cameras to capture all of the plop blooming and keep that camera handy because this friday is the annual chinese new year parade and feast your eyes on floats and guilty or not just costume and is a san francisco traditions after the gold rush and the festival continue toss delight thousands of folks throughout the city and the fun doesn't top there because this weekend is the 26th festival -- take a trip to mother russia without leaving the area. enjoy tasty russia food and muddic and vodka it will be a lot of fun and that is the weekly buzz for more information about any of these events visit

us at s f gvment gov tv dot ordinary care anout to bring th someone special. welcome to corona height located in the height of the cast strow district the eye kong bay bridge and on towards the east bay. cone oi shakes park is one the city's best kept secrets on lake twin peaks it's hardly crowded on a day any day you will run into a new lolls and hop on a bus to get there without any parking worries and lolls bring their four-legged fronds run freely with other dogs and a small touch of grass for the small dogs and wild flowers carpet the grasslands keep on the look out nor hawks and ot

♪ ♪ ♪ >> the san francisco playground's history dates back to 1927 when the area where the present playground and center is today was purchased by the city for $27,000. in the 1950s, the center was expanded by then mayor robinson and the old gym was built. thanks to the passage of the 2008 clean and safe neighborhood parks bond, the sunset playground has undergone extensive renovation to its four acres of fields, courts, play grounds, community rooms, and historic gymnasium. >> here we are. 60 years and $14 million later,

and we have got this beautiful, brand-new rec center completely accessible to the entire neighborhood. >> the new rec center houses multi-purpose rooms for all kinds of activities, including basketball, line dancing, playing ping-pong, and arts and crafts. >> use it for whatever you want to do, you can do it here. >> on friday, november 16th, the dedication and ribbon cutting took place at the sunset playground and recreation center celebrating its renovation. it was raining, but the rain clearly did not dampen the spirits of the dignitaries, community members, and children in attendance. [cheering and applauding] ♪ ♪