know, how else to say this... >> swallow... >> i tend to agree with her. because, if you are going to start a business, i think that some of the things that you should do is you should research what that business is. what permits do i need? what are the pitfalls? what is a good business plan? i mean, do i need an employee manual? do i need a security manual? do i have to pay payroll tax? do i have to pay property tax? you should do your due diligence. and the more people that do due diligence and actually operate with care, especially in night life and entertainment which is a public safety issue, can be a public safety issue, are people who become the better operators. the people who care about their patrons and that is kind of tend to say that we point out that you need to fill out every line of the application. and that you need to provide us with sufficient information, not yes, no, you have to

explain it. we have modified the application, several times in order for them to do that. but to tell them what they should say, i think is i tend to agree with josoline. >> let me add, not necessarily for a script, but a for certain permits have you to provide neighbors with a plan. and have them sign a form that says, they have seen the plan, and that they have been given a number that they can call if they have any problems. that is an example. >> but, yeah, like, if there is like a light impact issue that is going to effect the neighbors, i think that noise is definitely something that i would think merits, i don't want to put the applicants into so much burden to put in an application but there should be some minimum structure and guidance around what out reach

looks like. that is not necessarily spoon-feeding them the dialogue. they can figure out themselves how to say it but you have to cover concern information in an out reach plan. >> there has been some neighborhood out reach, i have seen or we have seen that they have actually had some kind of a form letter or something that people signed or even petitions. again, it is up to the applicant to devise whatever they think is necessary to make us believe that they are going to be good operators. so they can't even figure it out, i mean i am all about references and things, you know, giving them the tools. but they should write their own story. you know? not we write the story for them. >> there are certain pieces to the story that are in the application that should be part of the application. and i get them because i am referenced. so i don't know where we can lead with reference. >> what do you tell them, staff? >> what do you tell them with

regard to neighborhood out reach? >> we explain to them that it is surely important that they do the neighborhood out reach to move through this hearing process. but not only the reasons, do these questions matter quite a bit and a security plan is a very big deal with that neighborhood out reach is vital because we have two representatives of neighbors here. hello. and i have not done this in a while since nicholas has been working with applicants but i am pretty sure that he goes through with a lot of specificity about how likely it is that they will not move through the hearing without having done out reach. we do, or we have given them the url for the neighborhood empowerment, network, website, where they list the community groups to the planning department, where they list the community groups.

there is no process like commissioner akers was talking about and commissioner hyde and i know that we have done an inquiry around how to impose into our process something more formal that does not exist now. that it is more like, what? the planning department may do in terms of process. this will add time and money and effort into our practice and that is again, up to you guys, to impose. >> so let me ask you this. >> if someone comes to us, and it is a permitted use, they don't go through a planning process, right? >> if they come to us and it is a conditional use, they have gone through the planning process and they have done the neighborhood out reach? >> so, conditional... right? so conditional use, people come to us with conditional use and people who have to do 312 notifications and stuff like that. they have already gone through the process and the planning department to make them repeat the process here. it seems a little weird. >> i don't think that you would

have to, but i don't think that everyone does go through the conditional use process. and i think that we have seen tonight that sometimes out reach does not get done. and i also think that there needs to be specific organizations that are listed as to, you know, i don't think that you have to get too nitpicky or whatever you have to have a lot of options. that is the thing, i know for example, japan town, going in to the business next door is not what i consider community out reach and that was from an applicant who had been caught lying about being opened after hours and who the owners were and when these things had come up and time and time those are the people who do not have the ability to do community out reach. i think that that is why i'm questioning why there is not this ability to have it a

little more formal. >> right. >> i think that the question though is a little bit like do you hold their hand through that process and give them such a strong template that everyone does that well? and therefore, that means that they did good community out reach? or do we just let the status quo be and realize that there is going to be these lieers or people that have not done the out reach and we say, hey you don't get a permit or come back to us in a month. you can, did you not yet. >> othat... >> that is sort of what i wanted to do. and the reason that i say that is there are two representatives from the community. >> sure. >> one from the mayor's office and one from the supervisors, so obviously it is enough to have two representatives so this should be some reason we are here and some ability to say, hey, you don't get a permit until you do your due diligence. >> and part of it is not the quantity, it is the quality of

neighborhood out reach. >> so, to the next door and say, not divulging what it is that they are asking for a merit. it needs to be more quality type of permits out reach. suggest to the chair that the subcommittee gets to dig into and understand what the commission's request is, and what actually is done, and what is done in the other departments and do the reach here and now we have run into this numerous times and it comes up and it is obviously, an unanswered question. and it may not in the end result in something that makes all of you happy, again, we have had this conversation, it is set up here so that you guys are not going to agree on everything. >> but, it seems like maybe we need to do a little more research, this is now the third or fourth meeting that we have had this conversation and it never goes anywhere. >> i am all for that and i

think that we could form a committee tonight. but i do have a question, the statute says, that you shall grant the permit unless the following things exist, building health, you know, fire, security plan. those things. that is correct. it does not say, you shall grant a permit unless and you can't grant it unless your neighbors agree. it does not say that. and that would be changing the law and that would be changing or considering entertainment and free speech. and i think that would be a hard road to get. so, i'm suggesting that we do form a subcommittee that might create some policy that this commission might look to as a requirement to make us happy.

or requirement towards the conditions on a permit or something like that. but to do the research and talk to the city attorneys and talk to people in general and find out how you can do it within the framework of the existing law. is that okay with you? >> yeah. >> will you be on the committee? >> yeah. i would like to explore all option and come up with several options that would be possible. >> who else want to be? >> naomi? >> well, so we have two neighbor representatives just an over kill in it. >> i am not a neighborhood. >> i know that you are not. >> you are. >> why don't we do naomi and glendon and bryant, or steven? >> i am interested to see the proposed. >> steven you are in. >> on the broad way ad hoc we had two neighborhood represents. >> i am in. >> i prefer that it is three, i think that it is a deep and

complicated issue that is going to require a lot of research. and i think that it is too much the burden on just two people. so why don't the three of you get together and have why don't you come back the first meeting in april. and report. is that enough time? a month and a half? six weeks? >> if you need more time you can ask for it, but you know? >> i need more time i am going to be gone the last two weeks of march. >> how about the second meeting in april? >> okay. so crystal do you have that second meeting in april? >> come back with something. and you guys, set your own meeting and vote in your own chair and stuff like that. okay? all right. >> anything else in questions? >> thank you very much for doing that. i really appreciate it. >> you are welcome. >> any other questions and comments? >> is there public comment on our questions and comments?

>> i could see that you are standing there like waiting for that gun to go off and saying, yes, i am ready to come up and talk about it. >> good evening, my name is tstephen and i am glad that you are discussing it in something is that i do and one of the starting point could be that your board of supervisors have a list and in order for consistentcy the lists from the various supervisors could be shared so that when an applicant comes in you can say okay, this is a list of lts a working list and at least it is a great starting point. it is kind fp the list does get adjusted because you know there are groups that the new groups form and things of that nature. but, a lot of relevant significant groups have been around for a while. and maybe they have changed their faces. but they still, the groups are in existence. so that is a good starting point. the cu process and the conditional use process, you are going to get out reach that

says, okay, it is the nai sayers that say it is compatible and you george to try to prove that. and it is some of those things are tough to prove and in your jurisdiction you are looking at applications filled out in entirety and you are looking at security plans and noise issues, and those are the kind of things that you weigh in. so there is a little bit of a difference from the two. and it is always nice that you know, people go through step one and then they go to step two. and i don't think that if you go through the first step that you should get a free pass going before you guys. i don't think that that is... i think that there is still needs to be additional. but it is not as heavy of a burden or a heavy load. this gentleman in district six, had he gone to the supervisor office he could have gotten a list and worked off that list. and he would have been in pretty good shape and some

districts have more relevant significant or people that are going to voice their opinions. than other districts. because six has a lot of activity. but, all in all i am glad that you guys are addressing this, there is no one answer that fits all. but the activity leads to productivity. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> >> mark graeny again. >> commissioner joseph, you are absolutely right there is nothing in the code that will allow this community out reach and it is really one of the most important things that they can do. they have had conversations about how do you make the industry stronger because they are constantly being bombarded with tax and craziness and labor issues and labor boards and on and on and on and why is it important? everybody who has an entertainment license, i would say that 99 percent of them have a liquor license and it is not in the code to make the

community out reach, but how much money is that person going to save by going at the beginning and talking to the alliance for better district six, talking to jane kim and getting everybody on their side before they start putting in the protests for the abc because what does that cost them? they get lousy conditions and they have to hire me and spend a bunch of money or somebody to deal with that and maybe they are going to pay the rent for 6 months and then what happens? now they are going into the business weekend and what do they do? >> they start taking chances and book parties that they should not take and bring in promoters and then the police have a problem. you know, in one sense, it is not good to spoon feed them, but in another sense, you got to help these people. because they have so much coming at them and you got to keep them stronger and i think that community out reach is absolutely right there. get them out there talking to people and making friends in

the community, and realizing that they are part of a greater community. and help them. because if you don't, you end up with lousy operators and the people that we see up here, because you know i am always here. the people that you see that don't do the community out reach, they come back and they are shootings and there is craziness and they don't give a damn, and it is like, you know? and so i think that it is important to help them right from the beginning, this is important and this is who you ought to be talking to and get them out there doing it so they don't get the protests on the liquor license >> thank you, any other public comment? >> public comment is closed. >> commissioners i want to thank, commissioner hyde because our bedazzled gavel is so entertainment commission, it is so cool. all right? >> that was from the harvey milk from for my birthday made last year, by dee lightener. naoe. i am bringing it to be here in the office because

other than cracking my roommate over the head i have no use for it at home. >> all right. any items for the next agenda? >> seeing none, i move to adjourn. . >> we are running a womens' volleyball program here at richmond rec center. it's progressing really nice. the ladies here really enjoy the exercise and the play and it's a

lot of fun want this program is not for the faint at heart. it's really intense. the ladies come out. they are really going after it. they just love to play and compete. anyone can sign up. we're looking for more players. the women come from all over the city. we enjoy the program and we are getting people out to have fun in this beautiful city. >> rec and parks womens' volleyball program is available at richmond rec center. please visit us onli

>> the renovation of balboa park, the oldest in the city of san francisco, and now it is the newest part in the city of san francisco. through our partnership, and because of public investment from the two thousand eight fund, we are celebrating a renewal and an awakening of this park. we have it safer, happier, more

joyous. >> 3, 2, 1, [laughter] =--[applause] >> it is a great resource for families, to have fun in the city, recreation. >> this is an amazing park. we have not revitalized it without public and private investment. the critical piece of the process of this renovation was that it was all about the community. we reached out to everyone in this community. we love this park dearly and they all had thoughts and ideas and they wanted to bring their own creativity and their personality to bear on the design. what you see is what the community wanted. these ideas all came from the

residents of this community. as a result, there is a sense of ownership, pride and responsibility that goes along with what is going to be an exciting park. recreation and park commission would the secretary please call the roll. >> commissioner buell (here. >> commissioner low? >> here. >> commissioner bonilla? >> here. >> commissioner harrison? >> here. >> commissioner martin? >> here. >> both commissioners levitan and arata are excused. as a reminder we ask you to turn off any electronic devices and we ask that you take any secondary conversations outside. in order for the meeting to proceed as efficiently as possible. if you would like to speak on an item today, please complete

a blue card. you are not required to complete a blue card. but i will call the names off of those cards first. each person will have three minutes to speak on an item, unless otherwise announced by the president. just as a reminder, general public comment is on item 4 and then again continued on item 12. so if you would like to speak under "general public comment," those are the item numbers. last, if you could please address your comments to the commission when you are making public comment. in order to allow equal time for all, neither the commission, nor staff will respond to any questions during public comment. the commission may ask questions of staff, after public comment is closed. with that, we are ready to proceed. and i have one announcement in regard to the agenda. item 5e, which is the

department of emergency back lot security will be removed and heard on the general calendar today. we're on item 2, which is the president's report. >> thank you. briefly, last week commissioner low and i had the pleasure of touring the area known as the blue-greenway, which is basically around india basin and it was very informative. i want to thank the park alliance for arranging it and the staff for on or organizing it. so i want to encourage everybody that is participating in that effort to double-down and let's make it happen. it's a great opportunity to create a great recreation space.

secondly, commissioner bonilla and i had the pleasure of touring the stables in golden gate park this week, and i must say that it is challenging to find a solution to this problem, but i found it interesting to see the police department's stables there and how well-maintained they are and how well they operate. so i think the sense of commissioner bonilla and i have is that we would like to direct staff and i know you are overworked and underpaid to try and put together a package to seek public input, and proposals, to see if there is a market solution to creating stables in golden gate park. if there isn't, i think commissioner bonilla and i share the same opinion that we should then focus on what is the appropriate reuse of that area for recreation purposes. with that, that concludes my report. >> is there anyone who would like to make public commen