that time they need a feed. so that is where i come in. i offered there is a meal to be served. you are welcome to call me and we will deliver on the day and time that you may want it. you guys need it. >> and who is the other one? >> the other one is ywam. it is on 357 alice street. >> it is what? >> 357 alice. >> ellis. >> ellis. >> yeah. >> those are from the around the country, and the world and they get together and they walk around in the tender loin area and help the homeless and try to feed them and on the cold and give them blanket and that nature. >> educate the children from

under the country. >> there are really not a lot of residents. >> but there may not be a lot of residents right directly there, but there are some residents and the tender loin is full and i mean full of community organizations and i know many of them and i have never heard of city impact or the 357 ellis. so, i will check those out. and they were, i don't see it here, but i had asked for you to get the community organizations to sign-off after you had done the out reach to them. >> if you want them to sign the form? >> no i have not. but i have the name and number if you like. >> okay. >> and another one is the building, the building that they are trying to build a school in the city, for the third one, this will be the third one, so i got the third one. >> are these people that you

went to directly and said, look, i'm operating after hours. and i'm doing this out reach, because this is part of me getting my permit. and i want to talk to you about having this after hours permit. here at our restaurant. or are these just people that you are associated with randomly that you are now going to use as a community out reach? >> i did not say anything about the permit. i just walked in and i said i would like to do something for you guys for your organization. and if you can, let me know if you have some events going on and i would like to provide you with food, meals or something like that. no, whatever, in terms of... now, no that was not said. >> all right. thank you. >> you are welcome. >> so, the reason why i question and again, it goes by responsibility of owners. since i am industry and we get hit like you say you have a spokesperson but the buck stops with you because you are the

owner. and because the sign situation just got rectified only a couple of weeks ago, or last week, i mean that already shows neglect for me. and for you not to even do the electrical inspection or the dbi to go through, which we all do to get permits, to me it sounds like you stick your thumb up to what we are trying to enforce here. i mean we tried to give you an opportunity to comply, and it takes this long for you to do these things and you still are not in compliance. so, you know, we always want to give the applicant the benefit of the doubt and give the opportunity. but it also reflects on the owner. are you going to be responsible? and this kind of out reach, offering free stuff to your neighbors is not what we are asking for. you should tell them, what you plan to do. i am planning to open until 3:00. so maybe that changes their mind. so, i am just saying, you know,

for me, as a responsible owner, we are supposed to be doing the right thing and there is always some leeway or some things that slip through the cracks, but this is pretty big for me. >> i think that... what the commissioners are trying to say is that it is really hard to trick the commission. many of us are in the business, and we kind of have seen it all. so, it is important when you do community out reach, that you tell them that you are doing it because of the permit. because you are going to be opened after hours. and that you want to know that they are in support of that. and i think what you are doing is very admirable, feeding the homeless and helping people out and sharing your wealth it is a good thing. but, it is also devious to say

that you are not letting them know why you are doing that. you know? so, i think the community out reach is definitely lacking. moreover, you signed a piece of paper that said that you need to get all of your sign-offs and you are operating in violation of that. can you not operate until you get all of your sign-offs that is for sure. >> all right. >> anything else? >> yeah, and i just wanted to remind the commission and everyone that when this applicant came on, he had already had problems with operating after hours, i think that there was some serving after hours ar at least alcohol on tables. and you know, i took a lot of flank from community organizations for voting yes, on this. and one of the reasons that i wanted to check up is to see if my faith in your organization

was warranted. and so i am glad that you came back. >> all right. why don't we just hear from tender loin station and see what they have to say. >> could i say a last word? >> sure, you can have a last word. >> i really do apologize for everything else that happened with the inspection and everything. i have never had done that in the business for 17 years. but i am still learning. and thank you for your help and. >> how often are you at your restaurant? >> i am there 24/7. >> you are there every day. >> it is not your only restaurant? >> no that is the only one now. >> that is the own one now? >> i am always there and i am working in the kitchen and i am doing a lot of things in the kitchen. >> okay. >> and a lot of things. thank you for your help. >> okay. >> good evening, commissioners i'm officer mike torez and i am representing captain garity of the tender loin station. some time around january 16th

there was a demonstration in front of the naan and curry restaurant and that was because of a piece of property that the applicant owns at 308 turk street. >> that is the whole different issue in itself. during the demonstration there was approximately over 100 people in front of his restaurant. after this demonstration, some of the participants came to the tender loin station and one of the complaints in addition to a bunch of other complaints was that the 24-hour sign had not been removed, or changed. i then after sent a notice to nicholas king, asking for the commission to enforce that they take down the sign or paint over it. and then, a few weeks later, it

was put on the calendar and you know here we are now. i went by the naan and curry restaurant yesterday. and it appears that they did paint over the 24-hour signs that they had. they had three signs in front of their restaurant. and as far as the calls for service, there has not been any significant calls for service and it seems like they have been pretty much taken care of business and had no problems there. >> thank you. >> sure. >> okay, thank you, so much officer. >> sure. >> public, comment on naan-n-curry? >> seeing none, public comment is closed. >> direct me, staff, is there some kind of action that we are supposed to take on this? >> you don't necessarily need to take action, i think that we probably schedule it as an

action item if you felt the need to. but, as far as what is in front of you now, this, again, the motion and the seconded that was approved, whenever we were here in december would hold and that would be put into the permit, when the permit is finally accomplished. >> i would like one request. i would like to ask the staff to keep in contact with the tender loin station or check on your own to make sure that our permit is being enforced and that they are not operating on the conditional, that they have the full permit before they operate again. you can't be open until after 2:00, tonight. >> you can raise your hand all that you want. but you can't be opened until after 2:00 tonight, don't do it, we will come and shut you down. >> it is very important that the commission knows that we will check in on them and until the permit is finished which is not hard. i mean they have two last sign-offs to sign-off and it should not be hard to do, and

once that permit and the sign-offs are done we will look at it to make sure that the permit is enforced probably. >> until the sign-offs are done, if they are open at 2:05, we will site them. >> okay, thank you. >> moving on, thank you very much. >> i just have a question then, about the three neighborhood out reach done by the end of february, 2013. so, i mean, because we are in the middle of february, and so, now, they have to go back and do three out reach, by the end of february. and if that does not happen, then that is it and then it does not happen? >> miss king? >> is that a question? >> yeah, that is kind of a question as to what happens, you know, when it is not february any more? >> well, again, i think that we have had this discussion before about the weight we can legally put on neighbor out reach.

and whether or not there is any basis in the law for you to take any action against them if they don't comply with the request by this commission relative to out reach. we know how important it is and we know that it is very useful, in advance of and obviously of the things coming forward but, i don't know that we can take punitive action if that is what you are asking me. >> i don't see how we can do that. >> i tend to agree. >> you are done. >> any other questions? >> are they currently operating after 2:00 >> yeah. >> that is why... >> i get it now. >> not after this moment. >> so, to that end, we have to do something and maybe a larger type face that every time a conditional permit is granted, that it says you may not

operate until this permit is finalized. because the people walk out of here and think that they have a permit. >> just for historical, i don't know, value, or whatever. we used to have them sign something and i have to get up after i would do this presentation to the commission and i would run after them out of the door and get them to sign something that says that i understand. none of that is fool proof. for the most part the process that we take the people through, you know, leads them to a point that the only thing that i can request commission continue to do which used to get done, routinely instead of saying good luck, remind them that they are not permitted until all of the inspections are done. if you want to hold up a sign, i am fine with that too. but, this is a long process for many people and it is not the easyist one to move through. for us it becomes routine, but for them it is still a daunting

practice of you know, 8 departments and a million conditions. so, whatever we can all do to help make applicants understand and they are not done until they are done and i would appreciate it. >> so, commissioners? >> whoever has the chair, when they have the chair? >> instead of saying good luck, say it is not a permit until it is finalized. >> item number seven, commissioners questions and comments? anybody? >> no? >> i just want to announce next tuesday, cmax is having an open house at super club with the warriors and they are going to show the stadium and what they propose and everything, so the public is welcome. >> is that after you attend the 90s? >> that is. >> that is tuesday. sorry. >> i am on the wrong week, forgive me. >> let me check my calendar. >> but it is at 6:00 and it is

after work for two hours. and so everybody is welcome to come. >> yeah, i mean i have some questions about the community out reach and what the direction the commission is going to take, where we are going with have this or giving more guidance or having more structure. i know that this is something that commissioner hyde is very interested in. and i mean, like, in this situation, where we have an applicant who says that they are doing out reach, but, that was further investigation, we have learned that that is not really what is happening. so, do, and i don't see like, a sample script or here is a sign-off, sheet that you must present, that you spoke to so many people and a sample script that would be hi, i'm from so and so and, is this is the application that we are trying to do and open until 3:00, etc. so where are we?

is this something that is a long-term goal? >> well, i work for you. so if that is something that would you like, however, i will just say that there is a danger in doing the work for applicants for them. i mean, the same as handing them a security plan and saying here is a sample, why don't you do a security plan like this one and then you are going to get the same-sexty plan back at you. writing a script for somebody implies that they are not cap able as a business person to actually do their own out reach. and i guess that i am just speaking personally. i have a problem with that. because what i want them to present to you as commissioners is who they actually are, and their capability. if we at the entertainment commission lead them so far down a path that they present to you something that they can't sustain, then you are getting a false sense of what they are going to be doing as a

operator going forward. it is really important that you see what we see. so i hear you and maybe there is a middle ground because i have been doing this a long time. we have tried to spoon feed as much as possible to a point where we think that it is important that they, i don't know, how else to say this... >> swallow... >> i tend to agree with her. because, if you are going to start a business, i think that some of the things that you should do is you should research what that business is. what permits do i need? what are the pitfalls? what is a good business plan? i mean, do i need an employee manual? do i need a security manual? do i have to pay payroll tax? do i have to pay property tax? you should do your due diligence. and the more people that do due diligence and actually operate with care, especially in night life and entertainment which is a public safety issue, can be a

public safety issue, are people who become the better operators. the people who care about their patrons and that is kind of tend to say that we point out that you need to fill out every line of the application. and that you need to provide us with sufficient information, not yes, no, you have to explain it. we have modified the application, several times in order for them to do that. but to tell them what they should say, i think is i tend to agree with josoline. >> let me add, not necessarily for a script, but a for certain permits have you to provide neighbors with a plan. and have them sign a form that says, they have seen the plan, and that they have been given a number that they can call if they have any problems. that is an example. >> but, yeah, like, if there is like a light impact issue that is going to effect the

neighbors, i think that noise is definitely something that i would think merits, i don't want to put the applicants into so much burden to put in an application but there should be some minimum structure and guidance around what out reach looks like. that is not necessarily spoon-feeding them the dialogue. they can figure out themselves how to say it but you have to cover concern information in an out reach plan. >> there has been some neighborhood out reach, i have seen or we have seen that they have actually had some kind of a form letter or something that people signed or even petitions. again, it is up to the applicant to devise whatever they think is necessary to make us believe that they are going to be good operators. so they can't even figure it out, i mean i am all about references and things, you know, giving them the tools. but they should write their own

story. you know? not we write the story for them. >> there are certain pieces to the story that are in the application that should be part of the application. and i get them because i am referenced. so i don't know where we can lead with reference. >> what do you tell them, staff? >> what do you tell them with regard to neighborhood out reach? >> we explain to them that it is surely important that they do the neighborhood out reach to move through this hearing process. but not only the reasons, do these questions matter quite a bit and a security plan is a very big deal with that neighborhood out reach is vital because we have two representatives of neighbors here. hello. and i have not done this in a while since nicholas has been working with applicants but i am pretty sure that he goes through with a lot of specificity about how likely it is that they will not move

through the hearing without having done out reach. we do, or we have given them the url for the neighborhood empowerment, network, website, where they list the community groups to the planning department, where they list the community groups. there is no process like commissioner akers was talking about and commissioner hyde and i know that we have done an inquiry around how to impose into our process something more formal that does not exist now. that it is more like, what? the planning department may do in terms of process. this will add time and money and effort into our practice and that is again, up to you guys, to impose. >> so let me ask you this. >> if someone comes to us, and it is a permitted use, they don't go through a planning process, right? >> if they come to us and it is a conditional use, they have gone through the planning process and they have done the

neighborhood out reach? >> so, conditional... right? so conditional use, people come to us with conditional use and people who have to do 312 notifications and stuff like that. they have already gone through the process and the planning department to make them repeat the process here. it seems a little weird. >> i don't think that you would have to, but i don't think that everyone does go through the conditional use process. and i think that we have seen tonight that sometimes out reach does not get done. and i also think that there needs to be specific organizations that are listed as to, you know, i don't think that you have to get too nitpicky or whatever you have to have a lot of options. that is the thing, i know for example, japan town, going in to the business next door is not what i consider community out reach and that was from an applicant who had been caught

lying about being opened after hours and who the owners were and when these things had come up and time and time those are the people who do not have the ability to do community out reach. i think that that is why i'm questioning why there is not this ability to have it a little more formal. >> right. >> i think that the question though is a little bit like do you hold their hand through that process and give them such a strong template that everyone does that well? and therefore, that means that they did good community out reach? or do we just let the status quo be and realize that there is going to be these lieers or people that have not done the out reach and we say, hey you don't get a permit or come back to us in a month. you can, did you not yet. >> othat... >> that is sort of what i wanted to do. and the reason that i say that is there are two representatives from the community. >> sure. >> one from the mayor's office

and one from the supervisors, so obviously it is enough to have two representatives so this should be some reason we are here and some ability to say, hey, you don't get a permit until you do your due diligence. >> and part of it is not the quantity, it is the quality of neighborhood out reach. >> so, to the next door and say, not divulging what it is that they are asking for a merit. it needs to be more quality type of permits out reach. suggest to the chair that the subcommittee gets to dig into and understand what the commission's request is, and what actually is done, and what is done in the other departments and do the reach here and now we have run into this numerous times and it comes up and it is obviously, an unanswered question.

and it may not in the end result in something that makes all of you happy, again, we have had this conversation, it is set up here so that you guys are not going to agree on everything. >> but, it seems like maybe we need to do a little more research, this is now the third or fourth meeting that we have had this conversation and it never goes anywhere. >> i am all for that and i think that we could form a committee tonight. but i do have a question, the statute says, that you shall grant the permit unless the following things exist, building health, you know, fire, security plan. those things. that is correct. it does not say, you shall grant a permit unless and you can't grant it unless your neighbors agree. it does not say that. and that would be changing the law and that would be changing or considering entertainment and free speech. and i think that would be a hard road to get.

so, i'm suggesting that we do form a subcommittee that might create some policy that this commission might look to as a requirement to make us happy. or requirement towards the conditions on a permit or something like that. but to do the research and talk to the city attorneys and talk to people in general and find out how you can do it within the framework of the existing law. is that okay with you? >> yeah. >> will you be on the committee? >> yeah. i would like to explore all option and come up with several options that would be possible. >> who else want to be? >> naomi? >> well, so we have two neighbor representatives just an over kill in it. >> i am not a neighborhood. >> i know that you are not. >> you are. >> why don't we do naomi and

glendon and bryant, or steven? >> i am interested to see the proposed. >> steven you are in. >> on the broad way ad hoc we had two neighborhood represents. >> i am in. >> i prefer that it is three, i think that it is a deep and complicated issue that is going to require a lot of research. and i think that it is too much the burden on just two people. so why don't the three of you get together and have why don't you come back the first meeting in april. and report. is that enough time? a month and a half? six weeks? >> if you need more time you can ask for it, but you know? >> i need more time i am going to be gone the last two weeks of march. >> how about the second meeting in april? >> okay. so crystal do you have that second meeting in april? >> come back with something. and you guys, set your own meeting and vote in your own

chair and stuff like that. okay? all right. >> anything else in questions? >> thank you very much for doing that. i really appreciate it. >> you are welcome. >> any other questions and comments? >> is there public comment on our questions and comments? >> i could see that you are standing there like waiting for that gun to go off and saying, yes, i am ready to come up and talk about it. >> good evening, my name is tstephen and i am glad that you are discussing it in something is that i do and one of the starting point could be that your board of supervisors have a list and in order for consistentcy the lists from the various supervisors could be shared so that when an applicant comes in you can say okay, this is a list of lts a working list and at least it is a great starting point. it is kind fp the list does get adjusted because you know there are groups that the new groups

form and things of that nature. but, a lot of relevant significant groups have been around for a while. and maybe they have changed their faces. but they still, the groups are in existence. so that is a good starting point. the cu process and the conditional use process, you are going to get out reach that says, okay, it is the nai sayers that say it is compatible and you george to try to prove that. and it is some of those things are tough to prove and in your jurisdiction you are looking at applications filled out in entirety and you are looking at security plans and noise issues, and those are the kind of things that you weigh in. so there is a little bit of a difference from the two. and it is always nice that you know, people go through step one and then they go to step two. and i don't think that if you go through the first step that you should get a free pass going before you guys. i don't think that that is... i think that there is still needs to be additional.

but it is not as heavy of a burden or a heavy load. this gentleman in district six, had he gone to the supervisor office he could have gotten a list and worked off that list. and he would have been in pretty good shape and some districts have more relevant significant or people that are going to voice their opinions. than other districts. because six has a lot of activity. but, all in all i am glad that you guys are addressing this, there is no one answer that fits all. but the activity leads to productivity. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> >> mark graeny again. >> commissioner joseph, you are absolutely right there is nothing in the code that will allow this community out reach and it is really one of the most important things that