other residents have also communitied directly to our office. they are concerned about the leakage and having informed us to compel the applicant to address these issues before granting the permit. the sound inspector has visited the venue and the residents above and is available for questions, sfpd notifications and conditions be attached to the permit and the officer from the northern is also available if you like to speak to him. >> okay. it would be nice, to see you >> thank you. >> my name is marsha garland sts my honor to introduce, rory paull and robert cotonoly. the owners of live at the razz formerly known as the razz room, long been an icon in the

entertainment industry? san francisco. in fact it was there where i saw the great cleo lane and john danworth from england performing. and it just superb entertainment there all of the time.. the partners are well known for all of the charity in the city and helped the cancer organization, and many others. and now at the beginning of the year, the razz room moved to the amc theater building, formally the cadillac show room at 1000 van nes s tonight we are hopeful of getting a full entertainment permit, but he understand that there are still sound issues sought standing, 1000 van ness is a mixed use, adapted use building, meaning that it is being used by uses it was not built for. we have seen this problem before with the adapted uses,

currently there is parking, in the movie theater and theater space with 80 units of housing on the upper floors, after moving into 1000 van ness which had previously been approved for a comedy club, complaints from two residents on the upstairs floor began to occur. sound tests were performed, by granely and it was deemed that live at the razz needed to install sound proofing. the owners hired their own sound engineer kevin who is here and i insist that we pronounce the correct italian way and have ordered the materials necessary to complete the task but they are not here yet, i don't believe. i will let the owners rory and robert and their sound engineer explain what has been done and what the schedule is for the completing of the work. on behalf of the clients i ask

that one day, or 30 day permits be granted so that they have an income stream during this very arduous time for them. >> good evening commissioners and thank you for having us here, my name is rory paull. >> there is only one mic working. so it is rory's mic. >> if you want to go back and forth you will have to do that. >> we realize that there were some issues sound issues at our venue and we have always from the very beginning wanted to be good neighbors and wanted to take care of the situation and that is why we are here and that is why we put together a team of professionals that we know can iradicate this problem. >> also i would like to add that part of this problem with the space is the fact that it has been used for music even though it was deemed a comedy

club in the past and there were complaints there. so i think that there were a lot of carry over complaints in the building that we really did not fully understand. we fully understand now, like rory said i think that we have the best team that we could possibly imagine to conquer this task that we have to do and we are very serious about that. >> i would like to introduce kevin serace now. >> hi, good evening and thank you for letting me talk for a few minutes, hey, guys. i am going to give a very good, you should have something on your monitors that says live at the razz is that functioning up there? >> yes. >> very good. >> and even up there, look at that. >> hopefully you have got the whole. >> but you can't step away from the mics. because these are not the mics at the razz and that one does not work and these are the hics

at city hall. that is me and that is obvious. i invented drywall sound proofing and it is rare when you can see both the chip and dales and melissa on the same billing but i think that it is unusual in the type of adult quality entertain ment that is provides, this is some of the analysis that it has done and first of all i am going to open up and say if i was a neighbor in the apartment 509 and a few of the 4s, i would not put up with this, it is actually pretty bad. i don't think that these guys knew that when they came in, i think that they were a little bit... that is just my opinion that everything is fine and it has been fine, it is not fine. it is really, bad. it is unacceptable. so that is analyzer of the

ambient noise at 8 or 9 at night whatever traffic on the street and whatever is going on around them this is what happens when some of the picture is missing on this screen, it should be there. this is what happens when we are playing, music in the club, and you have got either live music or amplified music. >> can i interrupt you. >> those numbers on the right side, are dbs? >> the numbers on the right side are dbs. >> the number on the bottom are hertz, and so it is frequency. these are lower frequencies that you see impacted from about call it 80 hertz to 250, maybe 300 hertz in there, so that is really lower than my voice goes. >> i want to be really clear. the number on on the right side are db numbers? >> that is correct. >> and you said that the hertz number on the bottom. >> you see, 32, 63.

>> i don't see them. >> i have a different picture. >> you are seeing a piece of it. >> that is correct. >> what are the hertz on the bottom? >> okay, well here is, yeah, so we have some why don't we, put four of those up there. as a back up. >> and the three. that is five of those. yes. >> the area off of your screen. i might be able to. >> we will share. >> come on glen and share with me. >> no. so hold on. >> what page are we on here? >> we are on page, it is hard to tell. >> it is the second chart. >> okay. >> yeah, so it is hertz on the bottom, and it is db on the right. and of course the higher the db, is not good for us. the next chart, which i think is... >> that is ambiance. >> i think that it is important to look at an over-lay of those two. that is a little hard to read

and so i am going to go to the next one, which is just me replotting that so we can really see it. now this is the one where you have got green bars like that, and the red on top. >> and can we all see that? >> okay. red is bad. i will try to make it easy. green is good because that is where the ambient is and red is not where you want to be, and it is really uninteresting. what we are seeing is we will tell you 13 to 14 db peaks at 160 hertz. that is not extremely low like 60 or 20 hertz, but it is pretty darn low it is in the base frequencies. >> how many pages is this? >> i will get through it in another five minutes. >> then i have questions for you. >> i am going to summarize the current structure more simply, all of the noise is coming through those, this is the current structure, there are purple walls that i put there and yellow doors and a stairwell and the noise is getting into the stairwell and then creeping up to the upper

floors, the fourth and the fifth floor primarily, that is what is happening. our mitigation procedure, actually adds an entirely new wall and door structure ahead of that existing structure. okay >> and so, now we are on a page called mitigation. first of all i can tell you that i would not call whatever people thought was sound proofing in the past as sound proofing. it was whoever they had do it, twice apparently did not know what they are doing at all. so, there is a number of actions that i have laid out that this club has got to take, the first thing is that we need to reduce the max dbs in the club and that is how loud it is in the club from 103 to 98. it does not have to be 103. >> i am going to pull you back to the dbs and we are going to go back to that picture where i see db is not going over the number 50. >> okay. so that is in the apartment, this is the measurement inside of the apartment.

>> okay. >> inside of the apartment. >> i want to be really clear. >> so if you have 103 dbs on one page and not over 50 on another. so i want to be really clear on what you are saying. >> right. so there are over 50 that 13 or 14 over ambient is inside apartment 509, it is the worst apartment, would i not want to be there when the club was playing. now we are going to go and talk about the club itself. now in the club, of course we are going to play music louder than 50 db because i am probably talking at 65 or 70 db because i am a, loud talker, that would not be necessarily loud enough, and we played the live music around 100 db. 103 is too hot for that club no matter how you look at it. we are going to take that down to 98. that is the first thing and i will explain how we are going to do that in a moment. we are putting in new walls, which is called quiet rock 545, it is the highest end of wall

technology and it is a sound proofing technology and i will show you that. and we are putting in new door seals on the existing doors, they were not sealed they leak all around the doors and there is no seal happening there and that will add isolation and we are adding them in front of the doors and in the green room area, so those are the mitigation steps. i will just quickly show you the things that we have got, this is the sound proofing door and it is a 54 door and this is quiet rock, 545 and that is the certified drywall on the eleven, layer product and it is specifically for clubs. this is the sound level meter with an arm that will be installed in the sound booth and it cannot go over 98. this is what the existing walls look like, this is db on the left here and it is frequency on the bottom. and so that is the existing wall that is a rough

proximatation. this is what we expect the walls to look like when completed. this an estimate but it is based on the work done on the 545. and this all does lead to somewhere, i apologize for giving you so much data. but this leads us to finally, how does the sound get to apartment 509 in the first place? before mitigation? and you can go through all of those numbers where the clubs at 103, and have you got peaks at 95, and at that 160 hertz, which was the one that we are the most worried about that is the area that we have certainly got to deal with is around that area and you can follow that all way down to where we see 48 db in apartment 509, excuse me, and yet, that is way above the ambient of 34, it is very loud and it is going to sound twice as loud as ambient right now without any mitigation, it is not acceptable. with the strategis in place i will not walk you through all of the math but you can look at that and this slide says that

after construction how does it get to 509. and we believe that it will be delivering 19 in db which is below the 34 db and very well below. now, that said, we have got, an interim request which was mentioned which is this request for a temporary permit for acoustic only. and this is critical. where the doors are on order but there is a long lead time and construction is set to start in the middle of march and the cost is estimated at $65,000. the owners have agreed to do this. but we have got acts booked and we need the acoustic decks which includes some to be able to perform. what i want to be able to do is to make sure that we laid out for you the requirements of what we want in that permit, that it is acoustic only, and sing and her a piano and guitar and the door seals will be

installed before that so we will have a little bit of gain. and so last, the acoustic only performance, how does it get to apartment 509 and if you run through that math we will be well below and i will stake my reputation on that, there is no question that we will be clean for acoustic only. >> thank you very much. >> vag? >> when you tested it, did you go into apartment 509? >> yeah. >> can you tell me what you found? >> sure. can you give us a report on what you found? >> yeah. all right. so when we, let me just pull up my numbers here. yeah, so when we did the testing there, into apartment 509, we were hearing the

predominant problem that we heard was base, that low frequency that is what we were getting we were not getting highs or mids, or anything like that. what we were getting was that low frequency leak. >> so you were not hearing mid or high. >> no. >> question. did the people whose apartments you were testing do they complain about the gym, for instance to you? >> yeah, we have gotten complaints as this commission knows is in our jurisdiction and so we handled that on to the health department. >> and so the gym, what were the complaints was it also low frequencies? >> no, it was actually, them doing in their aerobics rooms and it was predominantly base. >> so just to you sir and the applicants, please note that this commission can condition your permit in any way we see

fit. and i would suggest that you absolutely cut out every frequency 160 and below. so, that there would be no frequencies, zero, 160 and below. and when we come to talk about your permit, that is going to be my recommendation. and that will solve your problems. yeah, you can come up, but that means, you are going to have a hard time with a rock band. but that would be in my estimation the only way that i could solve your problems. >> that is right. so there is no such thing as zero. at all. zero to an occupant of an apartment is anything below ambient. they can't hear it. it is no longer there. and vaj you can confirm that. >> we have to get below ambient and that was the point.

>> and so we measure sound here in all waves. and all frequencies, right? and so we pretty much know that on this commission. so, it is not just the dbs on the highs, because vaj is not finding that or the dbs on the mid range, we are finding base dbs. >> that is exactly what i targeted my presentation to. >> we measured the same thing >> so vaj, if this commission granted them at a lower volume until they were completed and they cut out under the mega hertz under 160, db because you visited the property, what do you think that the results of that would be? >> just for clarification for myself, we are talking about

granting a permit, basically going with the acoustic only? >> do they have all of the sign-offs in all of the areas? nicholas? >> that is not clear to me. and the applicant says that they do and i see, at least three outstanding. that is sometimes is just the other department not communicating or sometimes something that is not done. >> okay. so, in order for a conditional permit that is granted through this commission, to be a permit, you have to have all of your sign-offs. so, building and planning you would not be here and just so building and planning and electrical, sound, and you have to have that and you can't operate. >> you do have all of those. >> you do have some of them? >> yes. >> right. >> so you have to... we have to get those sign-offs for us to issue a permit. if you operate without a permit, you are operating in

violation. you can't do that. >> we understand. >> okay. >> so that is... okay i am glad that you understand. number two, why did you sign contracts before you had a permit? >> the contracts and my partner could explain that a little better. we were running the razz room at the hotel mico and we were not expecting to leave the hotel mico. >> the mico situation happened very quickly. in my business, i booked the talent, primarily that is what i do. and you know, i booked talent a year and and a half sometimes in advance, because we do acts like barbra cook, and we have sign them and get exclusives for them if we sign them that far in advance. that is why we had these acts schedule. it was not like we opened the door and said let me sign every act before we got the permits. they were signed while we were

at the nico. >> and you put the deposits down? >> yes. >> anyone else have questions, commissioners? >> steven? >> no? >> okay. >> not really. >> okay. all right. why don't you have a seat. staff has nothing else to report on this? >> okay, i am opening it to public comment on the razz room at 1000 van ness. >> all of the inspections have been completed. >> our office does not have copies of that, so they have to make sure that we get copies of them. it is not our job to get the copys of it. >> okay. >> could i have that dog while you are making... >> hello, my name is katie and i live in 509.

and a little nervous and also this is a pretty tough issue for us because we have been going through this before for six years with ddr, who are the original who is the owners of the space. and for ddr has this space rented to the show room and this is a sublease. from the show room. the show room closed due to the sound issues. in october and the end of october, ddr sent us a note that said that the show room has a potential new operator for their establishment. and the use would include some musical performances. the operators would like to perform a sound test in advance to determine if the music will transmit and interfere with the residents enjoyments of their homes this was in the end of october. they came to the unit, and to our unit, by the way it says that my notes reflected that the residents most disturbed in

the past by music from the show room came from 401, 506, 607, that is three floors up. we met rory and robert. and i met rory and robert. and i told them that there was a serious problem and they they needed to do sound test and proofing before they moved in. they told us that they would and they were on the fence about whether or not they were going to take the space. this is the old cadillac building. it has got old windows it has got a lot of old functions in it. and we did sound proofing a couple of years ago in our unit. we had double insulation put in under our floors. so that we would have less of a problem with the sound transfer. we also bought the unit next to the staircase, because we would not be sharing as many walls.

what is important to note here, is that there is a number of important things, but, the night that they had their opening, we did not even know that they were opening, so they opened without notice. and it was a jazz or a small jazz non-micked, maybe, i don't know what it was, i did not go down there and i said to my boyfriend, i said, i can hear a jazz kit. i could hear the snare and i could hit the drum and i could hear it in our dining room. >> i hate to stop you, i am sorry but your time is up. >> she has time. go ahead. >> okay. >> i also so basically they opened up without doing any sound proofing. all of the items they could have done, all of these items they could have done before they ever opened up. and let me see if this is important. >> okay. >> one more thing is that it is

not just the stairs any more. this was the first time that it is coming through the walls, the floors, and you can hear it all throughout our apartment. and units above us can hear it. >> before you leave, i have a question, a point of information, please. you said that the show room left because of sound issues. could you tell me what those sound issues were? this was an automobile show room? >> no, the show room was got its permit as a comedy club. >> the club called the show room. >> okay. >> they left for the same reason because they wanted to do live music. >> okay. >> thank you. >> yes, sir. >> hi, my name is ean rien heart thank you for hearing us. the night that live at the razz opened, like you said, i live in 509, we heard the jazz show very clearly in our home. and i went down stairs and made

a complaint and said, what is going on? and was very upset. and the manager who was a young guy said we already have our permit and you can call the police there is nothing that we can do. i walked away at that point, very angry. a day or so later, robert, whose last name i don't remember, sorry. came up and apologized and i said, okay. it was obnoxious but it was okay. when he came up, jefferson star ship was playing. what felt like in my living room nice for some people, not so much for me. over the course of 6 nights, it was unbearable in my house. robert also agreed that he could not live in that kind of

noise. we were hearing music in our floor and the floor above us which is three full floors above neighbors on our floor that have never complained about noise said that this is pretty serious and three or four neighbors who are traveling and could not be here tonight. the sound testing was done several weeks later. and now, apparently, work is being done, but, i would like sound testing to be done again before they are allowed to reopen. because i just don't want to have to keep dealing with this. thank you. >> thank you. >> next? >> sorry one last thing. i am sorry. >> i was just trying to be friendly the first week when jefferson starship was playing and i did not want to shut them down, because i figured it would be incredibly problematic and so i did not call the police for the first five days

and i did however lodge a complaint with the entertainment commission. >> thank you. >> thank you for hearing us, my name is jeff tanner and i am the pressurer of the maci home owner's association and so the... i just want to say from the outset, from sort of day one, we are not opposed to these guys having successful business within the building. the problem is that although there are a number of businesses within the building, for example there is a lot of talk about the movie theater it is a separate structure and construction and has nothing to do with our building. the portion of building that houses the condos is very old and it has been retrofit to tie all of the columns to the

floors and it is like one of those telephone games that you played as a kid with the paper cup and a string, it is going to be hard for these guys to pull this off. i would like them to succeed. i just don't feel in all good conscious that i can agree to the notion that we can start playing music until they have actually completed the measures that they need to put in place and we have successfully had a sound test and so far they have failed their sound test, i want them to be there, i am delighted to be able to go down and get a drink and their business and listen to some music, it is one elevator floor down from my place, that would be nice. but, i mean that is sort of the position that we have to have, and once again, i am representing the home owners and for some of them it is completely untenantable. >> thank you very much. >> commissioners, my name is raberta drink and i am a music an in the bay area and i depend on music to make a living.

musicians mean a great things to survive and the razz room is one of the greatest that the city of san francisco has ever had. the acoustics and it is all part of the experience that rory and robert are expert at it. they hire wonderful people and create a classy beautiful space in which everyone can enjoy the evening of the best music. they book such incredible performances from around the globe and those performers often need local musician and hire us to accompany them. they also book a lot of local talent and i can't even begin to express my gratitude toward them for giving so many local performers a chance to shine. and these are well-paid positions for the musicians and the exposure for an up scale venue is priceless. all of this is good for the musicians, the economy, great for the audience and for the community of san francisco in general. the razz room