project number at the planning department what was referenced on the calendar and also a section on where the underlying documents what about reviewed just to have some more words in there. but in particular this makes reference to a march first 20013 planning review that the changes to the project don't have any further environmental effect i think this is a - referred to a notice to file. this wasn't in the packet. and it's not at all clear where that's available for review. i assume it's buried in the planning departments files. i would compare this to the earlier discussion about a

washington where there was any addendum. there was discussion about the. so in the future i would hope that the document is referenced in the calendar item etc. so i hope to get an answer to that and finally, i'm not sure given the location of this project what is relationship is to the earlier 8 washington that was just talked about. it sounds like this is on drum and near jackson. is there some relationship can someone explain that >> thank you, mr. cruise. members of the commissioners while it is physically the same sewer that moves along those or

along the alignment their separated in need. where respect to washington we feel we need to create this redundant line because of the north shore main. physically their close to each other but not >> commissioners what's your pleasure? i'll entertain a motion. >> so moved. >> i'll seconded. >> any other discussion. ail in favor? >> item 11 reprove revised real estate guidelines. >> good afternoon commissioners i'm ahead of real estate i've been asked to expedite my

discussion. and how we set rates for the income producing property of the p uc where we've made some modest changes. the changes are before you i'm happy to answer any questions >> commissioner any questions on the item? i'd like to move it >> the items been moved is there a second? >> second. >> all in favor say i and my apologizes again. >> i remember when this came before the commission there was some discussion it was finally

adopted but there are i couldn't typically the difference were. i'd be interested in what the changes are and in the further i'd like appreciate this information but i've got no objection it the item >> we did submit tract versions. >> it's been moved and seblthd is there any further public comment? >> all those in favor? >> the motion carries madam secretary next item. >> item 12 the results and updated timeline.

>> good afternoon commissioners barb. today's presentation will brief you on the results of our customer poll. the poll concluded and we're here with our consultant from f m-3 dave will tell you about that. for our last two polls that we concluded with the report and we're also the first name that provided customer survey services to the energy program. they have quite a bit of energy

information so with that i'll turn to dave >> thank you very much members of the public i'm with - >> could you get a my case. >> i'm dave i'm with fm 3 i'm going to walk through this. i'll be happy to answer any questions about they been app plantations we we conducted 3 thousand interviews with people across the city. they were conducted in english and spanish and chinese. we said to make sure we don't care a big population view.

the methodology is going to be where we change the wording slightly. there were rate changes, and we added an up to date information data. and this included care patients. one question we repeat in this initial survey was designed to measure the public awareness. and we asked if people read anything about that and 20 percent last year told us they read it and essentially it has

not changed this year. people say they have not yet familiar with the proposal. we had an initial question where we asked people to choose won two statements. we asked them if they would pay more for cleaner energy or if they'd pay the same rate if it didn't change tail. roughly people are saying that they'd rather pay more for cleaner energy. following that general question we had a question anticipating that most members of the public wouldn't be familiar with that. the mechanics and the nature of the sources and it's impact over

the long-term leading to cleaner facilities in the cities were we asked the recipients if they'd go back to pg&e. 40 people said they'd stay with pg&e. obviously, this question omits a crucial piece of information about the increased rates. and there being a a large number of rate payers who sigh they'd stay with pg&e guessed they would stay with pg&e. you'll see the results here in

2011 and 2012. we had a third people say they'd stay with p geshgs and e and it increased 8 percent. i want to caution that last year, it was a different group of folks. but nevertheless, across the survey there were more people who were interested. we offered the respondents about the not to exceed rate about their costs for their tier whether they're in tier 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5. 34 percent said they'd stay with

the program and 32 percent said they'd leave. now as one might expect the tiers are not uniform. we're showing you the electricity program. the greatest interest in staying with the program is at the tier one level. the first sub group we see that the proportions said they'd stay with the program up to 34 percent. now we asked follow-up questions not to exceed rate for those who

offered their opinions for those who said they'd stay with pg&e we offered lower rate and that did lead to a higher percent that stayed with pg&e. so this is the first place where we have a sizeable majority >> i'm sorry did you quantity that? >> whether it's basic service. >> and what would it correspond to? > >>. i cheaper version of our program or is this to reflect the

program >> it's a cheaper portion of our program and we'll get into that as well. >> how, it be less money i don't understand if it's a our program. >> so the contents there commissioner is we would as we described to you we'd be looking at a different mix of resources between the reinitially products that we may procure and we may find them to be less expensive than we're currently projecting. >> so that's 1 hundred percent? >> it's still one hundred percent just the mix between the bundled project the renewable credits those varying forms of

compliant revublz. >> you're not finished? >> yeah, the next line is about the question that was raised. we had another photocopy question that pg&e might over a better program and gave an estimate of a lower rate. so we repeated the rate the customer would pay and the pg&e and having given them that information 74 percent said they'd continue to stay with the alternative program

i have 41 percent who said they'd stay with the program and 41 percent who are going back to pg&e. now we still have some of those who were initially undecisions and then some of those who given the additional active were undecision and these are the categories at the bottom of the slide. finally, we had a question at the end of the survey that attempted to describe the impact the clean energy in and around san francisco that will help to create jobs. given that description we had a

final question 51 percent said they'd stay with clean energy and some said they wouldn't. i can see the portion of the repotence. it's 45 to thirty and not to exceed rate it's lower. and after being present with the pg&e the numbers flip and it's lower for the clean program. so essentially it's 41 percent and 55 messenger depending upon that they would stay with the program at some point during the

survey. so you'll just conclude mr. there and note that one of the major because it was designed is to provide numbers for a modeling chart. so they can go back to pg&e or go back to the clean program. >> commissioners? >> you have a question if you could go back to slide 9 i think is. just to get a sense and maybe you, answer that without the visual that i can you u - can

you give us a sense of this might be a technical question. by get a sense of and i can tell you households. overall in basic tier 316 and basic tier lower and then barb this might be for you. one of the things we're going to be moving toward is this thirty to 40 meg. where wee would we end up >> the 20 to thirty meg waits

is about 1 hundred and thirty thousand meg was the. we have - we have lots of buffer for our program. there's an effort underway to our stafftomy to prepare more documents on the 25th. so you'll see what we're talking about for just residential customers because the board directed us not to include care and that will help you to

visualizelize how much of the load of the overall san francisco pie. you'll see from that we have quite a bit of buffer quite an additional load that's being proposed in the program >> so it's about 2 add and 70 meg waits. >> correct a one hundred and 76 thousand meg wait hours. >> so a one hundred and 76 meg wait hours. >> so were in the zone of tiers

one and two. >> so we're estimating that we can fully proscribe the program given the data that we've collected. >> okay. >> commissioner? >> how does that relate i think we had the heat chart so it wasn't by tier one and two but where in the city are we talking about rolling out the program. so if you take the heat chart and take out the impact areas it changes the total market we're looking at. i understand you're still working on the heat chart? and yes and so we don't have answers to that? >> again that will be available

on the 25th. >> what will be the total meg wait hours? >> it will be 2 hundred and thirty thousand meg wait hours. >> and that would be for somethingless for some percent of the customers. >> yes, a small percent of the san francisco residential accounts. >> one thing i want to be clear on. it looks like when you take into account the whole city you look at it in specific terms of this is the first thing that we roll out what do the numbers show and we'll be able to show you the heat map and the pie at our

meeting on the 25th >> so before i ask a question about the build out and before any public comment i'm going to ask jason to coming up come up to the front. i consider him to have some expertise in this area. given the fact we've had conversations about issues i think it's appropriate on the data itself >> thank you for those kind words i'm not sure i've earned those kind words that you but the numbers are what the numbers are. the one part i'll disagree with the staff is on 11. it talks about the 74 who want

to stay in the program. the problem is those are phone calls who were asked are you going to stay in the program or not and they said, yes. what's not being showed here a and is more relevant you get 8 to 10 percent of those folks who are not being included in the 74 percent. the way it's presented here is they're automatically leaving the program and that's not correct they have to fill out a form and they have to fill out a second form saying where they want to be. and so i think this unsells what is really going on and it would

break it down. i've only be able to look at the top line numbers. folks say that they would leave are this percent. i'm probably is - so you're really looking at a mature different number how the program roles obvious and then pg&e lays out at a future point what the numbers are. i would say how many are probably going to leave the program and who knows that you 710 now things can change because pg&es questions could

change but but today presenting it this way was the reverse way i would have presented that >> i would have created the poll in a little bit of a different manner. the p uc staff has always been a little conservative but i tries the staff. the other, you know, slide - it was on slide 12 they did break out the undecided in the i know if i'm going to be in the program or those who left for pg&e. keep in mind the 5 percent i would assume those 5 percent would stay within the program and that gives us a little bit

higher number because they have to sign too forms that were i'm not sure how they would file out the two different forms. by this time in the survey it has not been discuss yet. so there's going to be those great things we're going to keep a lot of those folks and the undecided 9 percent are never asked the question. so some of those people are going to remain in the program. and this is maybe compounding all the survey numbers and does go a little bit further than i would have done. i would have asked the 9 percent

where they would go based on those two options. i would argue those numbers are a little bit conservative in that nature >> so i know that commissioner came with dead on to request this data and i know we're all on the same page. they are have been modifications. i think that being careful and playing it safe is there anyway, we, move forward some of those issues? >> i think as we apply the findings of this customer poll to our heat map exercise the modeling exercise we're going to be making some assumptions that

will allow us to factor in some of the do not knows and undecided. i think the basic message we're hearing from the gentleman is when you're being conservative we're going to have higher levels of participation that would be a nice thing to have. we're being conservative because we'll be making some adjustments on the heat map and you'll see how it plays out. >> so how much does the note to exceed rateoc