and around the venues, thefts which i think are a bit more than quality of life incidents permit violations and loitering and etc., increased by 115 percent. and i know that it is not... we can't pinpoint exactly why these things happen. but could you give a little bit of perspective on what you think is going on, you know, in and around these clubs and particularly i am wondering if you are able to break down this data by neighborhoods. and or exactly where these incidents are happening whether they are in a nightclub, in a parking lot, in a short distance outside of the entertainment corridors and certainly the experience that i have seen in the street still remain intense. >> so, i will take a stab at some of these. the issues of the rise, and again, it is not something that i am positive about, one thing that i am sure of, however, and i think that the police will back me up on this is that

regarding the theft, cell phones and anything with an iin front of it is something that is routinely a problem. and there, we get those reports every week about someone leaving their purse or cell phone on the bar and going to the men's room or lady's room or pick pocketing and so those i feel like that may be part of that number for sure. you know, the other thing that i want to point out and i know that supervisor chiu had asked me, to include some 2010, data as well. is that we have improved but it is taking year after year after year to improve the reporting. and it took 2010 was not a year where we were getting very many reports from the police department it was spotty and 2011 improved and 2012 was incredible and i have a sense and i am a little bit guessing that maybe, this is also

respective of us knowing now that these incidents are occurring and we will obviously watch 2013, because it will be just as hopefully as good as 2012 in terms of getting us all of the data and then we will be able to know whether there is actually arise or is it just about us knowing what it is and again, we might be able to ask the chief loftus to look back on it and if you are going to continue to sort of this repeat this, quarterly or semiannually, we can come back with that kind of stuff. because i don't have the other stuff that you asked for, at the moment in terms of neighborhoods. i will tell you that in our name is permitted or zoned as it were in various view parts of the city. entertainment is really bunched up and as you know it is very much in your district and so, as well as supervisor campos

and supervisor weiner it is bunched up where is visit ors come and plans allows it and so when i do put it in that form, i am sure that we will see quite a bit of it in your district. and as far as inside and outside, and again, this is anecdotal but i am 99 percent sure this is right, is it typically is outside, it does not mean that it is outside of the sphere of influence that a club has to control. and definitely parking lots as you know, the parking lot legislation was informed by that information. that these for the most part are things except for where you see the 16 suspension, that happens, you know, within positive control or there was a nexus that was solid to the nightclub. but not necessarily inside. we don't have much patience, i certainly don't, for things that happen inside of a venue that are very violent that

include, assaults and weapons, and so what i will do tha. >> that is not perfect but that is what i know. >> i want to acknowledge that the number of citations that the entertainment commission has issued has increased substantially and i think that is the reflection of the hard work and the increasing work that you have done doing in this area. i would like to make a request of the entertainment commission and of the san francisco police department, to the extent to which you can drill down and really help us understand, where are these incidents happening and by neighborhood as well as geographically with regards to a particular nightclub venue or a commercial corridor i think that would be helpful at helping us address the problems. i know that our police chief has monthly comstat meetings where you really drill into where crimes are happening and

to the extent at which that same data analysis can be used to help us here would be really helpful. >> and i think that it would be helpful to hear from the police department and unless you have anything else to add? >> no. >> but i do want to know something, i think that we have to be very careful before we start putting out these numbers in terms of percentage increase and of incidents, i think that we have to be very careful to make sure that we are accurate about what we are talking about. because i do know that an issue that we have had in the past in the police department is, you know, the tracking of this kind of data and information. so, i think that we have to be very careful before we make general statements about increase in violence, because maybe, it may be true in one district, but that may not be the case in other parts of the city. and so i think that that getting that information and making sure that we are careful about comparing year to year, i think, it is really important because i think that a lot of

steps have been taken to address issues around the public safety inside of these venues and outside of the venues and we want to make sure that we have the correct data. in analyzing that. >> supervisor weiner, >> thank you. and it is a perspective here is important in terms of increases and decreases by percentage, it is more helpful for look at the raw numbers, if something goes from ten to 15 incidents just to give an example it is a 50 percent increase and it is helpful to look at raw numbers and also keeping in mind that the entertainment commission regulates the place of entertainment permit holders, not bars and other night life establishments that don't need a place of entertainment permit. and so it is also a pretty small subsection of night life in general. i do want to stress and president chiu mentioned the importance of making sure that we do not set the entertainment

commission up for failure, and i think that when the commission was created and for a number of years, we put all of these more and more enforcement obligations on the commission, while starving the agency of resources. and so, as president chiu mentioned he and i teamed up last year, as part of the advac process to provide an additional enforcement officer so that there was not one for the whole city and now there are two for the whole city and you know, frankly that should not have had to happen. through the advac process, that should have been in the budget that came to us and sometimes we see this with the very small departments that even small requests don't get accommodated whereas the larger departments fare better in the budget process, i don't understand why that happens but it is something that is not a positive dynamic in our budget process. and so, thank you. >> >> thank you. >> so, now we could hear from our police department? >> and i want to thank the

deputy chief loftus for being here. >> rich for the san francisco police department and behind the memo should be my memo on the state of the union address. and so, what i am going to talk about today is address the increased in the numbers as well as some of the other questions that you had. what districts you see problems in. so, the alcohol liaison unit is fairly new, we are created back in may of 2010. and that was the reason in which it was created in an effort to bring the continuity to not only the abc but to the entertainment licensing. as you know there are probably 4100 applicants for or actually for abc license in about 1,000 places of entertainment and so, we are the ten cals that we use are the different stations and the permit officers and they reach out and they handle not only the alcohol, but the

permits as far as entertainment goes as well. the increase, so, you see an increase as josyln, mentioned in 2010 and there was no reporting from police department because there was no alu unit. so you are going to see an increase in the years because we actively ask people that have abc license or have a license for permits to make reports. and now, we have a different avenue to make reports. they can make reports on-line, and then go in person to the police department, and they can call the police officer out or mail in reports. so i see, i believe that is the increase that you are going to see, we actively, ask people to do that, so that we can identify the problem places. and we review as supervisor weiner said before, just because there is a call for certain, we review those police reports to see if there is a problem with the people with the management personnel, or a lot of cases the nexus of all of the problems that we have with the entertainment part is

over service. >> so, since i have been there, about 14 months, i have had a really outstanding relationship with the director as well as vaj, he and myself and, my colleague inspector kelley go out almost every weekend. and first thing that we hear from a lot of the venues out there that have place of entertainment, why are the police out here? they have never seen the police officers come out and ask them, how can we help you? what do you need from the police department? >> well we do corrective action, i think that our corrective action, being out there in the presence alone and mainly you ask supervisor chiu what districts we are having problems in and i am not single out the district and it is because it has the most volume in the last two weeks there was an article on polk street, we are out there every week and we give a good hour every saturday night, myself and my partner as well as inspector granelli we go out at various times on saturday and friday evenings and we walk the streets and we talk to all of the venues and

we ensure that the guards all have active guard cards. that they do not exceed their occupantcy and we called the fire department out. personally i think that they have done a great job on polk street it is the new genderfided it is and it is the new chest nut street and i think that the establishments have been doing a great job and actually reach out to the permit officers and ask for lead training, we will take them in and the guards and talk to them about what we want the conditions and what we want and meet with them on a regular basis. and one of the problem venue and on that i will name two weeks ago to give you an example was the place that if you her the name and the branding name you think that they would be jazz they had an incident where they had a problem with gangster and rap music and stuff like that, that was on the saturday evening it was 70,000 people in the street

and embellished by the police report, by monday morning, we met with josyln, the inspector and the captain at northern station and actual management of that club and we had reconditioned them and we put together a template that they are going to use in the future and it seems to be working. as you would said that you are going to see an increase in sites next year because they did budget for another inspector to go out there. and inspector granelli goes out there and hits these, and these are businessmen and we hit them best in the pocket book, so when we are sighting them from the 1066 section that allows it and it is great. i am encouraged by that. and we do have weekly, meetings with the permit officers on a monthly basis, myself and inspector keller and the chief and we meet monthly and we discuss the issues in every district with the permit officers and what the problem venues are and we come up with

a game plan to rectify. looking at her memo and my memo i and apologize it is gratuituys we are trying to present ourself with the best case of scenario we have a great collaboration with the entertainment commission, and he are in the process under the tutalige of supervisor weiner to modify 1060 to accommodate the issues, we discussed it like any partnership we have disagreements. probably the main disagreement is not the staff as with the commissioners themselves on the entertainment commission. we are trying to rectify it in the 1060 session and they feel compelled to grant the permits after the police department gets up there and explains the different issues and the supporting documentation and it seems to be a disservice to the

public. and so we are working on that. and so that point, i will have our deputy chief loftus discuss that more. but all in all, i am, i have a regular daily conference with either vaj or josyln and i believe that we are on top of all of the issues that come up. broad way, as you know has been an issue, in the last three or four months, and because we took immediate action from director cain and we shut down one of the places on an emergency 72-hour suspension that place never reopened and i believe that reduced our problems significantly. and so we are mainly when we go out, we are concentrating on polk street corridor and the union street and the broad way street geary street and 16th street corridor. >> could i ask you a question. >> what exactly, you said something about a disservice to the public, what did you mean by that? >> well, for instance, if you go back and look at a tape tuesday night, last commission

hearing, there is an issue with one club which has been an ongoing problem for sound proofing they had agreed to continue it and get the sound proofing done. the police department denied the permit based on the fact that the sound proofing was not completed we asked for a continuance and we put out conditions and however, we understand at the end of the meeting that they allowed the entertainment to continue which essentially the property or the condos that are above this location are worth nothing based on the fact that there is an issue. we feel if there is an issue we will resolve and move on. >> they claimed that they had booked events two years in advance and so i felt it was a disservice and i may be speaking out of line but i may be speaking more for the tenants there. but, i felt if i lived in that particular area that i would be

upset. and there was no reason for the commission not, the staff, but the commissioners to continue and allow them to have the conditional use permit until the sound proofing was rectifieed. >> a couple of things, i certainly would like to i know that my office and supervisor kim's office would like to meet with the unit to talk about the process and the things that you are working on, i appreciate your perspective, i don't think that it is helpful, whether it is a difference of between the commission on a specific item to talk about the difference of opinion, you know, constituting a disservice to the public, i don't think that is necessarily the kind of relationship that i hope that we have between the police department and the entertainment commission. i think that you know each side has a perspective and each side has a role to play. and to the extent that there is

a difference of opinion, i think that we can agree to disagree without you know, labeling the actions of the other disservice, because i do think that you have people here who are trying to do the right thing that is mine. >> and i agree with you and i apologize for my particular opinion. i think that the chief can expound it, there are many insurance incidents but the point that i want to make is that we work very well with the personnel that is here today. and we are and that was the point, we do have ab open dialogue, and we are not stone walling each other, and we agree to meet on the issues that we disagree with and that is the process that we are going with and in the end it will be a valuable service for the residents and the owners of the clubs, and the patrons that visit the venues. >> i know that if i were a member of the commission i would be surprised by your

comments. >> supervisor chiu? >> i want to try to clarify what i think inspector was getting at which is from what i can see my perspective, i think that the staff of the entertainment commission and the officers and the leadership of the san francisco police department are working very well together. which is frankly different from what i experienced four years ago, or three years ago and i want to thank the staff for their work. what we did hear though, three or four years ago was that there were many clubs, or i should say that there were many more clubs where the public would be telling us that there had been numerous incidents of public safety issues. such as the example that the inspector just laid out. clubs that had a history of public safety issues and a history of violence for which the entertainment commissioners and that is just different from the entertainment commission staff, the entertainment commissioners were being told about but there wasn't action. and i think that what we have seen in the last two years is

that the entertainment commission has been taking more actions for some of these clubs but there are still examples as was just cited where that does not always happen. and i think that that was something that i had heard in recent months, there are still issues that are the case on broad way and in the non-hill area and polk street and in my district i don't know if that is the case in others but that is something that i continue to hear and i think that it just means that we have come a long way and a significant way to go. >> we agree on that president chiu. >> supervisor weiner? >> yes. >> i think that one other challenge that the commission has had that i think that we are fixing in the legislation that i have pending is that right now, there is the commission can impose a very short suspension on a venue that is violating and the next step beyond that is revocation

there is not a lot of in between and so the legislation that is pending will give the commission the authority to impose, or at least the director to impose a longer suspension and i think that the more flexibility that we give to the director and to the commission, to address some of the problem causing, the better that it is going to be because it is not flexible enough right now and so i think that that will be an improvement as well. >> okay. >> having to jump right to it, sort of a death penalty, it is not, if it can put the commission in an awkward position. >> great. >> i wanted to see if deputy chief if you wanted to add anything? >> again, thank you for being here. >> it is my pleasure. i would agree with a lot of the issues and a lot of the statements from the inspector van coal. specifically, the relationship with the entertainment

commission. between the entertainment commission and the san francisco police department right now. it is the best that i have ever seen it. this constant communication and constant give and take. we do have issues on occasion, as inspector van coal mentioned, in a real responsible to the public as is commission as is this body here. we get the noise complaints for the clubs and so, when the noise complaints come in, and you know, we have seen a lot of instances where the people are explaining about the noise of a particular club and you know we feel although they have come an awful long way and they have made vast improvements on what they have done in the past and you know, it is our opinion that they could do a little better and quite frankly the police department could do better and that is the nature of the beast. we are continuing to push forward, and we are continuing to address the commission and

make our concerns heard. and i think that it will continue to improve over time. one of the issues that supervisor weiner brought up with regard to folks on the street at night, how they could or how it could mostly, neighborhood better, you know, the police department was dedicated to the gregt and the vibrantcy of this city. and you know, sometimes that is true, but sometimes it is not. often times on the broad way corridor, like the incident that we had a couple of weeks ago we had a huge fight out there. you know, a lot of people on the street is not necessarily good late at night, especially a lot of folks that have not been drinking. i know from my days as a robbery inspector people on the street late at night, the robbery suspects will look upon them as victims. and so, you know, it, the... the permitting and policing and

regulating entertainment clubs is a very, challenging process. it is a challenging process for both the police department and obviously for the entertainment commission. we look at the middle of the road where we can act, you know, and keep the public safe and you know, keep the neighbors of these clubs at least allow them to get sleep at night and make sure that the regulations are being followed. >> thank you, chief. >> and i want to again, thank you and your staff, as well as the entertainment commission staff for the fact that the staff level that you are working you know, really well, i think that is very important. i have a question, you know, i think that it might be helpful since any time that you are talking about two agencies working with one another, it is not just the people who are at those agencies the staff but also the bodis that over see the agencies. has there ever been a meeting or a discussion that involves both the entertainment commission and the police commission?

>> not lately. no, i don't believe so, i don't believe so. we have had meetings, myself and the chief and josyln, and met two months ago, we do have continual contact, we do have, you know, as stated by both the inspector and josyln, we have a good working relationship. we are trying to make the city as safe as possible around entertainment venues, as and that is our common goal. they are in a little bit of a bind, they advocate for entertainment and regulate it's same time. our job is easier, we regulate and enforce law and regulate and so we don't have to necessarily, they have the advocacy program and part of the equation in that kind of makes their job even more difficult. >> i would suggest and i would appreciate your comments, and i

would suggest that there be in the near future a joint meeting of the police commission and the entertainment commission. i think that having that discussion and that level of discussion by the policy-making bodies of both entities is useful and helpful. i know as a police commissioner i found discussions at that level with agencies useful and i think that it is only something that can lead to a positive thing. and i would encourage and in fact, i will be asking those bodies to at least look into that, i think that discussion will be helpful. >> i think that it is a great idea and i think that it could happen. >> supervisor weiner? >> just to be clear, in my statement, having people in the street at night increases public safety, i was not suggesting that having thousands of people unload from

clubs down broad way all at the same time is always the best thing, i know that we in california, have unlike a lot of other areas in the world have this incredibly rigid system where everything has to close at two and everyone piles out on the street at the same time and sometimes chaos can ensue and so i know that senator leno, has attempted in the past to give more flexibility so that not everything has to close at the same time because the state law is restrictive right now and i think i hope that we can take a look at that and i think that it is one of the problems that everything empties out on the street at the same time. >> we agree to closing clubs at midnight to two clock. >> i think that i may have had something else in mind. >> i am glad that you raised the issue of the two a.m. situation. and i wanted to ask you, specifically about some of the neighborhoods in my district as

you know. broad way, polk street, and union square, get a bit intense acouple of weeks ago, colleagues, i don't know if you saw the you tube footage, but there was a maly that happened when the clubs closed. 100 folks got into a fight, it was a very intense situation and a number of folks got arrested there have been articles in the last couple of weeks around polk street and the fact that many believe that we have hit a saturation point. and while, we have not seen the same violence on polk street that we have seen on broad way, there are concerns that we are almost at that place. a lot of my constituents have been worried given the staffing levels at the police department with attention in some of the higher crime areas that involve non-entertainment violence. that that has meant that in those neighborhood that i just described, the attention of friday and saturday night by definition they have not seen

the same level of staffing that they want to see and i know that part of this is a function of budget and i am wondering if you could talk about specific things that you are doing along polk street or along broad way to make sure that we are tamping down the potential issues. >> sure. >> the police department is down about 300 officers right now staffing-wise. and currently, there is a directive that all of the district stations staff 25 percent of the patrol force on the midnight watch and that specifically to deal with the problems that occur, you know they come on at 9:00 and get off at 6:00 a.m. and so specifically that is to deal with these types of problems and problems that we are having in the night life and the clubs after. and having an adequate number of officers to police the rest of the districts. on the broad way corridor, you know, broad way has been a difficult place to police for the last for as long as i have been in there have been problems on broad way. so, what we do generally, is we

all of central station out there and we generally have a number of our violence reduction teams out there and this motorized units are out there. and it is friday and saturday nights. and doing traffic stops and a lot of times sobriety check points in the area. just to keep a lid on the potential problems. you know, broad way seems to attract a difficult group of regulars from around the bay area. like much like the crowd that was the other night we had some tough folks down there obviously, the fights brought out and then we had to call the police officers from around the city to come and deal with the issues. so, preventing a problem for the most part we are doing pretty good. are we at a saturation