>> honorable members of the budget committee, my name is david (inaudible) and i am a volunteer for the coalition of legal professionals and i am a board member of (inaudible) and members of san francisco tomorrow, citizen climate to lobby as well as other social economic and professional organizations i am urging the supervisors to allow fundings to allow at least the library to keep the present minimum spais of 30,000 square feet. i am saying this not from the standpoint of the present city budget but for the future needs of our residents. and as an internet engineer, i realize that we could find them on-line and the library does provide the service and know that it is necessary to have a physical space for legal research and free citizen education that the library provides. neither wiki pedia, or google could take the presence of the

san francisco public library, neither will lexus or west law on-line will replace the library. internet cannot replace a well-appointed law library for ordinary san francisco citizen as well as legal professionals. and the next 20 years, san francisco will experience the increase in population and change in dem graphicks that will reflect the dem graphics and knowledge workers and we are seeing the increasing construction as well as my neighborhood, and that reflection of the city economy and it is time to have the supervisor board position dip into the future with an eye to increase the services and expand rather than decrease, the san francisco law library for the future for residents to make san francisco the forefront of world class

cities, thank you. >> gentleman, thank you for allowing us to us all appear, my name is larry bain and i work with the school district service and we feed 55,000 children every day. and 75 percent of them are living at or below poverty and basically they are hungry, the work that i do is essential to improve the quality of food that is being served lower the cost of that service, and without the support of the law library and the increased amount of space that they need. i am sure that i work in a field, that those were the books more valuable to me and the children of san francisco. and the decision that you make today will impact not only the people working for the great population, and impact the daily life of the children of san francisco public schools.

thank you. >> good afternoon my name is (inaudible) and i thank you for this opportunity to speak to you on behalf of the public law library and i have a solo law practice and i started my office last year. and frankly i would not have been able to do so without the resources and the support and help that i got from the public law library, not only were they able to provide me with information about the practice management in terms of the types of tools and resources that i needed to have a law office and also there was of course legal documents and books that i could use to serve my clients. on one hand, the public law library looks like a free resource but for me it is an earned resource, because when i paid my taxes related to the business i am supporting the library economically and i think that a lot of people would say a lot of things similar. the law practices would not be possible without the resources

therefore the business taxes that they pay to the city would not be possible without those resources. so i think that from a public policy standpoint, the library should be expanded and improved as opposed to diminished and reduced. businesses are able to be created and conducted through the resource and also the public is able to get the information that they need about the various legal issues and matters that effect their lives on a daily basis, thank you. >> >> good morning, supervisors. my name is alma robinson and i am the director of california (inaudible) for the arts and i am speaking as a very committed fan of the law library and the librarians who provided so much help to our organizations and various matters we were involved in as well as to

individuals that we have sent there for help as they were representing themselves in court. and having examined various sides of this issue in terms of whether a compromise might be worked out, it seems to me that in fact, city is opened to exploring creative ideas that would take us out of the litigation realm that would come out to work, and i firmly believe that is possible. and as supervisors you could facilitate this happening and we could end up with a better facility that works better for all of us rather than having a library feel like a solution has been imposed. thank you for your attention. >> good morning, my name is susan petrial and i am a so

solo practitioner and also with low income clients and pr6789 obono clients sent them to the law library and i echo all that have been said before me and so what i am going to say is that since this is the budget and finance subcommittee and i am actually going to speak to that and the nakt there is a lawsuit that is vie be able which most likely in my opinion the city ends up being mandated to extend this space any way. a family said that it is a good idea to work the compromise and give the city the space that it needs. the second thing that i want to say is i think that the session with the public attorney or whatever or should be open. and then, in the alternative, if it is a closed session, i would like the findings to be made public. so thank you very much.

>> hello, everyone, my name is (inaudible) vitorio and i am a volunteer organizer with the coalition of concerned professionals based in san francisco. i am here to protest the city's plan to down size the only public library left stand ng san francisco. i want to echo the people that spoke before on behalf of the low income people, all of the people that need probono cases by representative. and because i am of mexican origin and the people that are limited in english are in dire need of support. the state says that they do not have the money to keep the sorts open. but they have been 41 billion each year on tax breaks and incentive to corporations it is an constitutional act to be fund a judicial branch in the

resource to a point that they are (inaudible) effective. the need of thousands of low income people and retired people as well as the (inaudible) and we urge you to do the duty to provide recourse to the people of the city, the city insured that the public law library has sufficient space and funding to continue its valuable work for our community so not only would we like it to be, or that we would even like the expansion, better space and greater possibilities for all of the people, thank you. >> my name is dan snow berg and i am the pastor at the (inaudible) church and my congregation is made up mostly of homeless and disenfranchised and people who have time and

time been marked as less than both cap able or status having access to services. i am deeply disturbed that there is a continuing, almost systemic elimination of services and opportunities for poor people, for those that have been eliminated or have been marginalized and this is just one more step, one more illustration along the way. that the law library, that which, that system that has provided the opportunities for people to advance, even without resources. that becomes an opportunity to be limited and controlled. the real issue here is to control access.

to a system and to a process which is essential for our democracy, and for those folks who support and are part of that democracy to make themselves, to strengthen their positions. you have the opportunity to expand and to provide opportunity for that access to be maintained and not controlled but to maintain it as an open and an option for those folks who are in desperate need. thank you. >> good afternoon, committee members my name is will mquire i am a sole practitioner and as a new attorney like many of our generation we have been a victim of a over saturated legal market that you did not get the job at the big firm and i have started a solo practice

and i cannot afford west law lexus services let alone the extensive collection of books that they have at the san francisco law library. in order that i rely every week on the service and staff that are invaluable. quite simply i could not serve my clients without their help and therefore i urge the committee to adopt the requested relief and on behalf of myself and the clients simply situated and all of the litigants who use the services as well. thank you. >> good afternoon, my name is antonio (inaudible) and here as a resident of san francisco speaking on my behalf to reiterate of what the pastor says i was going to say the same message that we need to

have legal services for homeless and people in need and the people part of the lgbt community, back and brown people, poor people, in general, they need legal services. if you see someone on welfare, or they cannot afford to pay $500 an hour, for an attorney and if he we down size the library, that is going to be a constraint for them. i support bigger library and i support that the library should be 30,000 square feet and current size of the library is too small, there are not enough seats there. not enough books. and we need more staff and more resources for that library. i want to point out one personal example that there is a contract that san francisco as signed on our carry no cash program.

and (inaudible) was awarded $82 million and $86,000 since 2010, tac (inaudible) were in control and if you contact the citizens who live in the properties or people who have called for work for pac they will tell you so many stories that are so heart breaking. and those people have no resources they don't have a way of making sure that they get equal access to justice. we need the bigger library and problems 20s at the library and the legal at the library and if it is possible and i understand that the budget committee is concerned about the money, i think. based on san francisco budget. so, $7.1 billion and that is a lot of no money and i think that we can support the library and it is the only library in san francisco.

and the land lords they get in the way because most law firms don't take cases that are $5,000 work, $10,000, $20,000 worth. and so where do you go? you go to rent control board and they say no, the clinic is exempt and so they have no jurisdiction and so we need a jury trial to deal with this situation and to do that, you need, there is legal resources and that is why i am here to support san francisco law library, thank you. >> good morning, my name is albert koon and i have used the library 42 years continuously as a sole practitioner and i use it every week at least once and sometimes twice.

occasionally three times. the size of light braer as it is right now is too small. and we are using all of the books that are there, and anybody who does his own research like i do, both the state and the federal courts, it is necessary to have that minimum 30,000 square feet. and i urge you to maintain that level and i would like to remind you that just kennedy was also a user of this law library before he went on the supreme court. thank you. >> my name is cathy kusher and i have been a lawyer since 1976 and most of that time at a big firm and now at my small, firm of my own. but most important for today, i am a trustee of the board of the law library and have been

for the past 15 years and i could say that i only hope that you are as moved by the testimony that is given today as i am as a trustee of the library about the extent to which the mall and diminishing space and resources that they have been able to offer for 15 years on my tenure, 18 years after we were removed from city hall and we have been able to serve so many people so well. >> and i am also shamed that in the 18 years that we have had to work with the city. 15 on my watch, that we have not been able to come up with a solution to the true space needs of the library as the need for services has gotten greater. and i feel like my role as a trustee has not been honored

given that it is my duty and my fiduciary duty to make sure that there is adequate space for that library. as you know, i as one of the trustees were forced to sue the library over the amount of space this year. i would only ask that you review that record, which justifies the full amount of 30,000 to 35,000 square feet, that the city itself recommended in 2010. you know, before you vote on this resolution. thank you. >> my name is kay lucas and come to be a member of the board not because of a election because i was so concerned about what was happening to the law library, when it moved out

of city hall, half of the collection was put in under brooks hall where it has suffered tremendous damage, water damage, there is a leaky conditions and it is well documented, and i became so concerned about the outstanding collection that was being wasted by the city that i was appalled, and when i contacted the board, trustees they actually asked me to join, which i did. and we have spent the last number of years working with the city trying to do, or come to every kind of solution, we have spent money, trying to have feesbility studies done, we have had experts come in, to have a first class law library they have told us that it is somewhere between 50,000 and 60,000 it is astonishing that we are in the position of discussinging if it should be only 30,000 we have no choice, because, it is the only public

library of citizens. they have to go out to find out why the board of supervisors pass the regulation and what does it mean when they did it? 1970. there is no other way for the citizens to find out the information that they need. we urge you to recognize the leadership of this city and to go forward and have a first class law library, thank you. >> good morning honor board members my name is dennis rice. i have been a lawyer here in the city since 1959. i am not going to give you a lecture on the law. i have been a county supervisor myself. and as a matter of fact barbara and i went on the board the same day and i know that you supervisors have to rely on staff to give you the input.

i just want to site one aspect of the information that you have gotten from staff. if you read all of the materials that have been furnished to the board, you would get the impression that city and county's real estate company found the property at 1200 van ness and they have been by themselves secured the rights to get 22,000 or gross feet or 20,000 net feet. the real estate department had nothing to do with locating 1200 van ness and that was done by the law library. we brought in our real estate person and we are negotiating with the owner who had 22,000 gross feet, square feet on one floor and 8,000 gross square feet on another floor and had

some additional square footage and wanted the law library in there. the county real estate department took over the negotiation and shut the law library's real estate people out. they took it over themselves and the next thing you knew, they came up with just 20,000 net, square feet. and then they went out and found somebody and took them down and say that the appropriate amount of pace was 20,000. >> so this was the kind of information that has been furnished to you and i think that it was suspect the way that it was done and i urge you to reject this resolution and send it back to the executive branch and call for a real study to be done about what this really needed and what is available. thank you very much.

>> good morning, supervisors my name is trevon machan and i am an attorney and i practice over in (inaudible) as well as here in san francisco. i see that the only issue here today is your recommendation of 20,000 square feet verses the recommendation of the librarians of 30,000 square feet for space. and currently, west law is 253 dollars a month and lexus is 240 a month and bloomberg law is $350 a month. and with those subscriptions those are bare bones and without access to textbooks and practice guides and trestuses and law journals or the books that most of us practicing lawyers find in the law that we need. so when i need something i go

to the law library that is where i find it. recently i heard a congressman speaking about this sequestration in washington. that for every citizen that speaks up to congress and sends an e-mail there are about 1,000 citizens who don't. i don't know how many people spoke today, perhaps 60 or 70. if i bought down my clients that were located in san francisco, this year alone there would be about 40 and if everyone else brought been the clients perhaps 40 each, i don't know how much that equals, maybe 3,000 people would talk and i think that they would all urge you to adopt the 30,000 square feet passed for by the libraries who know their job and know the amount of space needed for the books that are used every day by the lawyers.

thanks. >> good day, members, my name is kurt (inaudible) and i am the president of the board of trustees of the law library and i would understand that we would have a chance to speak with you after the closed session but i thought that i would have the opportunity to speak to you now. mr. rice has indicated that the history of the 1200 van ness building and i want to say to you in the time is permitted to me that we have a long history of the city promising our adequate facilities ever since we moved out of city hall and everything has been temporary and much of our material has been in dead storage which means that we can't get access to it which means that we can't get our citizen and our users to get access to it and both the lawyers and lay people and that is not the way that it should be. if you look at the numbers, frankly i am sorry to say this, i am a citizen of this city

andvy been here since is 1956 and practiced since 1956 and you are not being dealt with fairly and adequately, the city, and board of supervisors passed a resolution, in 2004 saying that 35,000 feet was the adequate space for the law library, nothing has changed. now, the city has produced an expert witness who says that 22,000 feet is sufficient. the expert witness is being contradicted extensively by the material of you fighting in court. i can't get into it now because it is much too detailed. but the city has somehow taken the 22,000 feet of the expert and reduced it to a 20,000 feet. but if you look at the item four in the executive summary, about halfway down the first page it says that the proposed lease would initially include

approximately 15,633 net square feet on the first floor and in addition there is (inaudible) of the first offer and a year from now is something like that. nobody says what we are going to do with the needs or the material that people need with the space for access for the people in the library i have been hearing all morning, that is all under the curtain and under the carpet. and not being paid attention to it, nothing is being done about helping us to move with just the city's obligation under the city's charter. and i am just frankly very, very distressed at the way in which the city administration has handled this and i urge you to reject the resolution for the reasons that i have stated on which i could go on to state longer thank you very much. >> thank you. >> supervisor mar? >> has a question for you, if you don't mind. >> could i just ask. >> i just reviewed the 2004, willie brown and board of

supervisors resolution, i don't think that it reference 30,000, where are you drawing that from that it is sufficient and adequate? >> that would help if i could see that and the other question is, how is the storage at brooke's hall being paid for? >> i can answer that question, but the librarian is in a better position to answer the first question if i may. come up here marsha and help me. as to the brooks hall is being paid by the city but i urge you to go over there and look at it. it is behind a wire enclosure piles of boxes that are deter ating and the books are not accessible and they are rotting. this is which is what we put in it there for two years during the remodeling process, we thought that we could do that, it has been 18 years

>> before miss bell answers the question, from mr. charles diers report, did he conduct you or the library staff? >> i am glad that you asked that. the city attorney office contacted our attorneys and that they were going to have it and he was going to serve as a mutual facilitator and mediator and then the assistant city attorney told them that they changed the position and their mind that he was going to be a partisan expert and so we dealt with him as a expert and we were polite and no corporation. >> thank you. >> in 2010, the controller's office undertook its own study and invite the library to participate and came up with something that is called a draft report which was issued

in june of 2010. in that report, the conclusion of the city was that the law library needed that minimum 35,000 square feet throughout the materials in the litigation, the city refers to part of that report, and there are things in that report that are otherwise inaccurate. but that is where the two statement came about 35,000 feet and with respect to brooke's hall to go back to 1995, when the bond issue was paying for the move out of city hall and the temporary move out we were expected to come in back in as all of the other stores would come back in and there is no expectation that we were not and so the move in the materials and the offices were paid for by the bond funds and at the reoccupation of city hall, and suddenly the law library did not go back in. so the materials have been stuck in