more questions, why don't we go to public comment. thank you, ms. jones. >> thank you. >> so, we'll now open it up to public comment. public comment will be two minutes. when you have 30 seconds left, there will be a soft bell. when you're two minutes is up, there will be a louder bell. yes. >> if i could just make one comment. i have received hundreds of e-mails the last few weeks on this topic on both sides. and frankly a lot of the e-mails and communications i've got have been i think etiologically based might be a strong word. folks hate what one, my colleagues have put out, what i find would be helpful is specific comments addressing specific issues with legislation as opposed to sort of i hate this or i love that. the more we can sort of boil this down into specific issues and specific solutions, i think that will help certainly me and hopefully my colleagues figure out the best way to move forward on that. i just want to say at the outset that is what i will be listening for.

>> thank you. i think of course it's always important for people to be specific. but there is also -- and this is on both sides. i think there are -- in addition to the specifics, i think that there are people who have a great frustration in general with how ceqa applies and its impacts on projects in the community that are broad in nature. in addition to the fact i think there are people opposed to this legislation who have a generalized frustration about not knowing enough, believing that they don't have enough opportunity to object. i'm all for specifics, but i also don't want to downgrade the more general views about how land use happens in the city and the perceptions on both sides because i think that those are valid as well. >> i'm sure we'll hear a lot of that today. >> so, okay. i will call a number of speakers, and you can line up. you don't have to go in the exact order that i call you.

christin ham son. pat scott. francisco dee costa. howard wong. sally stevens. steve seltzer. po bronson. tess well born. [speaker not understood]. espinola jackson. [speaker not understood]. paul page. leah [speaker not understood]. and george wedding. welcome. thank you. >> you can go ahead. okay, all right. hi, i am christin ham son and i'd like to thank you for having me here today, supervisors. ~ obviously this is an important law. i also believe that the reforms that are being considered today are very important as well. i was asked to share a little bit about our family's story. i'm here to talk about one of those home remodel projects that came up against the ceqa process as they are implemented

today in san francisco. and, so, i'm here to talk about some of the real impacts to real families. i can sense there is concern in the room about some of the changes that are being considered, but i hope that our story might help people think about some of the impacts and the way ceqa is implemented currently as well. we did a home remodel project. it took us about 2-1/2 years to get through the full approval process. we went through mediation, the planning commission, and the board of appeals. and that was the first year and a half. once we did all of that and we were approved at the board of appeals, our opposition triggered ceqa at that point in time. we didn't expect that that was going to happen. we knew it was the remote possibility, but they did in fact trigger it, it was consecutive and it followed after all the other appeal processes that occurred.

ceqa was by far the longest most unpredictable, most stressful and most costly part of the process for us. and i don't know whether the reforms being considered today will [speaker not understood] addressing situations like that confronted by our family, but it might be a good start. anything that would compress the ceqa process, make it more transparent and allow people like us embarking on remodel have a better sense of what we're going to be up against from the very outset would be a lot better. we might have been able to decide earlier what decisions we needed to make, what costs were involved, and [inaudible]. >> thank you. thank you very much. next speaker. francisco de costa. supervisors, this is a very important topic. and as you see, when we come here for the meetings, you three supervisors at the podium

have had your say and i don't think any one of y'all are land use experts. and, so, with your comments, you have convoluted this issue. and ton top of that, one already had the audacity to tell us what we should speak to you about. let me tell you, for 45 years i've been reviewing e-i-rs and i'm pretty well attuned to ceqa. now, in our planning department we have a system. the planning director stated that. you've heard those comments. unless we can connect the dots from our ero and we the community, especially the bayview community, again and again and again have been

shafted by the supervisors. ceqa came about from the light of the e-i-r going way back in 1969. some of y'all were toddlers. yet we the advocates who come to the meetings and have to suffer, as we did today, out of no respect for seniors who have to sit there for 45 minutes and that is the point i want to make. we do not need any amendments. because the amendments are not coming from the right place. one of y'all doesn't have the heart to represent the community. thank you very much. >> thank you. (applause) >> actually -- okay, a couple things. first of all, under our board rules, we request the members of the public not make audible

either booses or clapping. ~ if you want to do a thumbs up or thumbs down, feel free to do that. also i should have noted earlier, if there is anyone who because of the disability or other need physically needs to go early, even if i haven't called you, let us know and we will accommodate you. [speaker not understood]. thank you, supervisor. you have a copy of my letter in front of you. i would like to make comments about one particular negative declaration that shows the need for a change. and will be addressed [speaker not understood] supervisor kim's legislation that we'll be seeing tomorrow. on october 24th of 2012, there was an e-i-r filed for no more than 5,000 square foot ground disturbance at 789 frederic street.

in fact, more than 16,000 square feet were disturbed so there was a deception there on the part of rec and park. and there were potentially hazardous materials at that site. and nothing was done about that. so not only are there issues about why that was given a negative declaration, but there is no follow through on saying you blew it. and that's one of the very frustrating things about this, too. so, besides the permits that are going through this process, once decisions are made, where is the teeth? here's something that rec and park did that has not -- [speaker not understood]. i would say, too, that permission that was given at whole foods on stanyan, that were conditions that were not upheld.

so, [speaker not understood] supervisor wiener was drafted at ceqa and not discussed. supervisor kim's legislation was drafted in public and now is being continued in public. when notice is given it needs to be pushed out to the public. we do not need to go to the website and have to search for information. we need 60 days on large projects. thank you. >> next speaker. howard wong speaking for san francisco tomorrow. first, we'd like to see supervisor kim's proposed legislation fully considered before adopting any measure before you. the ceqa process, as you know, is a very difficult to understand even for elected officials. but for the average citizen it's almost incomprehensible. the changes that occur in a project are a great multitude

of changes. as an architect, i have seen critical path schedules which are very complex. ceqa is often a very small part of the very complex project. we also don't always appreciate that even planning professional are not always accurate. a project can be defined in such a way that easily is misunderstood by the project provided by the public. look at 110 embarcadaro where an historic building was to be demolished because the address of 110 embarcadaro and not 113 stuart which is on the other side of the building by which it was known. an historic resource where long shore men had their headquarters during the great general strike of the 1930s. the cpmc project, look at the evolution of that project or

americas cup and its evolution. many houses change dramatically, many houses which are historic resources are not even identified by planning staff at the counter because for whatever reason they don't have the databases or the knowledge about what the buildings constitute. it's complex enough for legislators and architects to understand [speaker not understood]. you need time. you need time for people to [speaker not understood] and react. >> thank you. mr. wooding. good afternoon, supervisors. is this on? >> now it's on. good afternoon, supervisors. my name is george wooding, 120 central council coalition for san francisco neighborhoods. i wanted to say quickly that many neighborhood groups do not support what scott wiener has been representing. the groups he mentioned are

just about a small fraction of what san francisco neighborhoods are all about. i think one of the problems here is [speaker not understood] amendments, supervisor wiener's legislation has been a moving target and many people cannot keep up with it. jane kim is introducing legislation tomorrow. people by right would like to see both side by side compared and would like to look at this and [speaker not understood] the best part for both pieces of legislation could be combined . i think that would be a fair thing for the public to look at as this has been a difficult process and a quick process, and as howard wong said earlier, ~ people don't get it. i'm going to bring up what i think was extremely unfair categorical exemption.

it's, the soccer field in golden gate park were listed under different lot numbers and they were supposed to be supposedly nothing more than another grass hill. turned out it was going to be a thousand-seat stadium with lighting. this was all found out by nancy warfol. so, i appreciate what she has done and you can see that this process can be abused. i think when i talk to citizens, they're very worried that a project after it has gone through the ceqa process will be changed. this gives people the right to sugar coat a project and then after the project is approved, they would then go ahead and change it. thank you very much. >> thank you, mr. wooding. ms. jackson. dr. espinola jackson, [speaker not understood]

bayview hunters point, san francisco. i would like to say that, supervisor kim, i agree with a lot of questions that you were raising, but one of the things i think all of you should do is look at how city planning was being run 20 years ago. i've lived here in san francisco for 70 years. i've been voting for 55 years. all right. so, that's a long time. and the thing of it is that those of us, the citizens of san francisco whom you are supposed to represent -- not what your ideas are, but what are the citizens' ideas, what do the citizens want. and this is not being done. and i'd like to say i'm very disappointed that we don't have anyone from district 10 because that's the largest area of land use to be carried out. it's over 800 acres of land with the shipyard. and with the sewage plant. aim very concerned about how we

have been shafted. you all shafted us before. and what happened, we had to get a lawyer. we shouldn't have to get a lawyer because of ceqa. we should thev have to get a lawyer because you vote on something that you should not be voting on because of big development. and i am getting tired of hearing about development and not about the people of san francisco. thank you. >> thank you, ms. jackson. ms. stevens. say what? >> i'm calling the next speaker. hi, my name is [speaker not understood] stevens, i live in the golden gates neighborhood association. our association represents about 500 household in the west of twin peak center [speaker not understood] part of the city. our neighborhoods primarily owner occupied single-family houses. for many of us our only action with ceqa is one to make changes or additions to our house. right now the process is just complicated. people don't know what's going on. there is disagreement about

that. supervisor wiener's legislation will create an open predictable process to resolve these disputes. it will make it easy for everyday people, not just attorneys to understand the deadlines. it will make the ceqa process open and more clear for the little guys in san francisco, the homeowners who want to make small, important to the home owner improvements to their home. we therefore support supervisor wiener's legislation. by contrast, we're concerned that supervisor kim's legislation might have a negative impact on our members because nearly all the homes in golden gate heights are more than 50 years old. according to supervisor kim's proposal as i understand t the over the counter permits that our members currently can get for minor projects, for example, you know, replacing a broken handrail, windows, leaky roof, that sort of things, would no longer be allowed. this would add months of delay to a home remodel project upwards of $500,000 or more to obtain a categorical exemption certificate they would need to continue with what is essentially a minor project. home repair.

we think that her legislation will make it more difficult for our members to make the kind of home -- minor home repairs and remodels that we need to enhance our homes and protect our investments in them. we therefore oppose supervisor kim's alternative legislation and support the legislation of supervisor wiener. thank you. >> thank you very much. next speaker. steve seltzer, united public workers for action. it is interesting that this so kayedv reform being proposed is also coming alongside governor brown's attack on ceqa because that's what this idea of reform is. ~ it's to dee regulate land use and make it cheaper and more profitable for the developers. that's really what's drive thing and that's what's been driving our big chairperson here who says he's interested in good government. i think that's a laugh because i was at a park merced hearing where i saw your good government. the city attorney came in with documents from the developer and said that was the legal

[speaker not understood] of the city. is that good government when you take the developer's legal opinions paid for by the developer? i think this really is a fraud. i think that it shows actually that what's going on is the bully -- the people of san francisco, the community for the projects of the developers, and i have to say that we have a case where the supervisors, all the supervisors just voted for $750,000 settlement for dr. derek kerr because he was bullied, as have been the planners in the city department, senior developers were bullied out of the department [speaker not understood]. where is your concern of good government when you're voting millions of dollars for retaliation suits [speaker not understood] by the workers of san francisco, public workers who oppose the corruption? because that's really what's going on i think in san francisco at this point. workers, public workers are being bullied. they're being told go along with the corruption, go along with the scams that are being put forward. and that is a clearly the case

in the park merced where you violated the sunshine agreement to push through new amendments without public comment, violating. instead of dealing with that you get rid of the sunshine commission. you refuse to employ people in the sunshine commission. it is clear corruption, [speaker not understood]. >> before we get to the next speaker, i have a question for the city attorney. supervisor kim, her legislation, which i understand will be introduced tomorrow, has been mentioned obliquely or directly a few times. can i get a clarification since that is not on the agenda today, what we as a committee can say or not say with respect to it and what members of the public -- i just want to make sure that --

[multiple voices] >> please come to order. [gavel] >> mr. givener. >> john givener, deputy city attorney. the committee and members of the public can discuss the legislation that is being considered by the committee today. of course, supervisor kim's legislation is closely related, deals with the same topic. so, it's perfectly fair for a member of the public or committee member to mention ideas in supervisor kim's legislation as a counter point or suggestion for amendments to this legislation. >> okay. i think that's very important. i'm glad to hear that. i think some people may have thought otherwise. so, just to be clear, we are allowed to talk about supervisor kim's legislation today. if folks could please -- this is a hearing that is run in a certain order. everyone will have an opportunity to make public comment. please no outburst from the chamber. yes, mr. givener, just to be clear, we can discuss that?

>> you can discuss it. again, to the extent it informs decisions about this particular legislation. >> okay, thank you very much. okay, next speaker. [speaker not understood], a member of the sun site heights association [speaker not understood], which strongly supports supervisor wiener's ceqa legislation. our neighborhood association is 100 years old and we thought we saw it all. we think that this is a very important open government measure that promotes transparency. it's unjust to keep the planning process hidden from the general public and accessible only to the experts. who under the confusing rules. you're going to hear from the usual suspects here, i trust, and maybe their attorneys. i heard one activist saying i

had a long talk with aaron last night. so, you will hear that. but let's think about everybody else here who doesn't have time to come to all the hearings who doesn't fully understand ceqa. supervisor chiu asked about what specifics, what's important. what's important to us is clear notice, clear notification so we all know what's happening and when we can register our thoughts. we want one appeal, not two or three or four appeals. people who are working people who have families don't have time to come to multiple hearings. do it. and then finally, we think it's only fair to prohibit appeals. the very end or particularly in some cases in the middle of construction, that is simply not fair. san francisco is the only city in california that uses such complex and confusing procedures. this clearly is not going to

hurt ceqa because other counties and cities have similar processes. let's make it clear. are we so special that we have to be bureaucratic and wasteful? i think not. this legislation doesn't take away the right to appeal any planning decision instead it strengthens noticing requirements. thank you very much. >> thank you. before we get to the next speaker, i just want to call a few more cards. anthony urbina, pat scott, hiroshi fakuda. [speaker not understood]. [speaker not understood]. rose hillson, tamika ross, mike [speaker not understood], mike bueler, robert [speaker not understood], judith. nick hefner. judy irving. and next speaker. i am [speaker not

understood] bronson, [speaker not understood], and volunteer san francisco biking soccer league. we register 8,000 kids to play soccer. we are a significant partner with our rec and park department to provide that for children. and the opponents to the supervisor's legislation, supervisor wiener's legislation, have brought up the beach l.a. project in a way and i think that's a misunderstanding. i want to be clear. my understanding here is that under supervisor wiener's legislation, there would have been more proactive notification of the categorical exemption for beach l.a. and it would have been easier and better for opponents to know what's going on under supervisor wiener's legislation than as it was last spring. in support of supervisor wiener's legislation, it is common sense and as a journalist easily understanding the rules of governance that creates fair competition of these ideas is vital to the

city to pass this legislation. thank you. >> thank you very much. next speaker. hi, xiiixv. supervisors. my name is sam ball. i'm a film documentary maker at the [speaker not understood]. my wife say public school teacher in san francisco unified. i really appreciate supervisor kim's questions and comments about large scale development and i just want to speak about my experience in support of supervisor wiener's legislation because i think it's a small step in the right direction of transparency. i think the current process the way we've experienced it discourages transparency. we notified our neighbors of our plans and showed them plans well before we began construction. we brought up lighted property and uninhabitable property with holes in the walls, faulty

electrical, faulty plumbing. and we were not expanding the building [speaker not understood] or changing the building or the appearance of the facade. and as happens with severely dilapidated properties we found dry rot into the walls about 40% of the way through construction, 40% of the way into our budget when our next door neighbor who had seen the plans many months before suddenly started filing appeal after appeal and waiting until the 11th hour of the last day every time. just one of those six appeals was a ceqa appeal, but it was a devastating one. it took a long time to schedule a hearing. it cost us mortgage. in total over this process, we spent more than $100,000 on the six appeals, though not one of them went the wrong way. all of these appeals were very easily decided, and yet the

bureaucratic process and the overlapping jurisdictions and the sheer amount of expertise it takes just to understand the legislation cost us far more than a public school teacher's salary for the year. thank you. >> thank you. mr. ball, that was the bernal heights appeal i referred to. i should mention its was the appeal. it's just off mission street both of you are referring to. >> with the rotted out walls? that's right. >> thank you. next speaker. hi, my name is paul page. i submitted something to each of you. it's an e-mail. it's an e-mail of a project that happened on 5 37 natoma street in supervisor kim's district. and it was a discussion between myself, ben fu, and to a lesser extent john ram. what i wanted to highlight is that there are already timelines and deadlines on

appeals to planning decisions, dbi decisions. so, it's not entirely true to say there aren't. and the other point i wanted to make that the ero mentioned to one of supervisor kim's questions is she was surprised or had never seen an example of someone appealing a project after the public notification period had ended. i work with nepa in transit projects and i see it fairly regularly and i don't deal with 6,000 projects or cat x's every year. even in the instances i work with perhaps 10% are appealed after the public comment period, frequently by the owners themselves. so, this isn't an unusual thing to have happen. i think if you restrict the time period for commenting or close the public comment period, it's simply going to create more problems, legal problems later on in the process. so, if you look at the 5 37 natoma example, i had wanted to -- i had asked some questions of planning while the project

was still in the planning stage. and i basically asked, is there a pre-app meeting that it happened? and the planner blew me off and waited for the expiration of the comment period and then he sends me a comment, an e-mail saying, well, i commented but you didn't respond back. so, what ended up happening is the developer of that project had to spend a lot of money as it went through subsequent appeals while he's pouring concrete into the ground. so, if you did a better job at planning, you wouldn't probably need to do much modification with the actual ceqa regulation or the rules you're talking about. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker. hi, supervisors. i'm here speaking on behalf of golden gate [speaker not understood] society. we have thousands of members and volunteers in san francisco bay area. we believe that ceqa is a tool for ensuring decision-making process he and [speaker not understood] public involvement. but i have to say that supervisor wiener's proposal amendments would undermine