out. the one of the things we've duplicate is most recently is we have modified a policy where the department of human services. we've worked with the labors. we had a d o w policy as you know there's a cap for the cap for firefighters is 6 hundred and 33 hours. if someone is willing to work on overtime shift the exception is granted for that. also which comes up not very often is if the person is not been able to be on a working shift and they have to go to mooned training but that's not

used often that were and if we were to go to wildland fires then we receive money from that >> so that being said we have higher earners. so people are put into the shift we're allowing those to work who want to at unsafe levels. one of the things we've done is put a cap into for 11 hundred hours to try to minimize it's not going to change the time but it will distribute that. >> so i know that many people

who are doing over time hours not just people who were doing the offer time but across the whole department it leads to exposure risks and chaufgs. and have will every ever been you mentioned mandatory staffing level and we have guarantees that we have to have a staffing levels. and now we're saying because the mandatory staffing levels to harm people possibly does that make sense to change the levels >> i think it's a fair question peer we're not overstaffed, in

fact, if you look at the growth of the crane in the city you can see our california volume has gone up. 70 percent medical calls and thirty percent fire calls. the reality it that we're - >> the response to calls does the mandatory staffing level you can actually reach the calls i think the studies that have been done in the past you can have the lower staffing and meet the calls. >> we're mandateed to be on a call in so many minutes. if you're question is whether we're going to reduce the fire people on the fire trucks it would be going against the code.

i can tell you we have a 2 code fir alarm and if we see the outcome of fire people going into scenes - >> i'm talking about the local prop. >> that calls for a minute amount of stations and coverage. >> and mandatory staff in the fire department's. so that calls for that. so we also had chiefs that would

lead to a large reduction >> so reduction in spend and reduction in risks. when i came into the department we had 3 divisions and 10 divisions. i'm happy to have the debate and a besides asking for a reappropriation within the department we could look at the staffing. and they're there to make sure we don't look at those things we need to look at those things >> i have no disagreement.

i think we have the budget analysis report they have a difference of $460,000 range. they don't believe our expenditures will net at that time, so we would agreeable vigorously that our figures truly reflect the numbers we used the numbers from last year and we took april, may and june weigh-in we're on the target. we have been correct when we feels we're not spend the enemy we are we're spending it. i can give you previous years data. for example, mr. roses offices

when we had seen a reduction in budget we needed that money and if i think the million or so dollars we were asking for more we would have come back to you. we're fully prepared to come back with you if you go with mr. roses recommendation. i'm a taxpayer in this city i'm telling you this is real numbers. i know we're headed in the right direction. i have the ultimate respect also for my staff. and we feel we're within very close to ask for a reallocation

of overtime >> thank you chief for the presentation. i believe that mr. howard's has to staff over time information but the over time increase has been about 8 percent increase. that since you brought it up the reference to over time at least two fire department staff has racked up oh, $50,000 over your salary and the presidio salaries are way up there. i think your efforts to create caps are important i want to plaid them but we have to

control the offer time spending. i want your response to what the report is maybe inaccurate. you referenced two members that's 5 i have 5 people over 15 hundred hours at this time. we work really close with the mayor's office it's more efficient to staff on overtime. your staffing lflz are so although, the mandatory overtime is critical. >> so maybe this might help so there's one station 39 lieutenant that racked up $221,000 to a total pie that's

50 above your salary. >> there's a citywide cap of 21 percent but your firefighters it's $633. >> our shift calls for some exemptions that were granted there are 4 to exceed the cap if one the member is held over for mandatory assignment and no object o other members is skilled. so if the shift clarification

has a list of people and the second one is allowing people to work a lot of overtime. and the second exemption if the member would be forced to work an involuntarily shift and any i member wouldn't be allowed to work that assignment. so for example, if someone exceeds the cap if they're available for it to avoid the person who has childcare issues >> if the members assigned to the shift. and then the final piece which is third party recoverable so if

we get sent to a special area and we don't pay that out of our fund that's exemption. this would eliminate. >> i was wonder if our the mayors budget director could talk about the staffing over the two years. >> so you're right to highlight the relationship between overtime and staffing levels so it's true it the departments overtime actuals have increased

over the several years. at the same time the number of uniform f t e have declined. we think the fire department is ready to talk about this. perhaps this chart would be helpful to show. so the chief can speak to this as well as i can if we could see the chart on the screen. so in blue is the total number of uniform f t e's over the last 10 years and the red line that you can see climbing is the total number of overtime hours in that given years. so as the number of uniform firefighters have declined the

overtime hours have increased. there's a direct relationship between the number of full-time staff. and the fact that he have a mandated number of fire department's stations that have to be oppose and there's a certain number of positions or posts that have to be filled everyday and when the fire department lose firefighters because of retirements if they're not able to bring on fire cadets quickly enough then

we have a overtime. so we're going to ask for a class this year and we're going to be working with the fire department during this budget cycle to see if there's anything else we can do about speeding up the number of firefighters. however, that has to be a different conversation. we've making sure they're getting the most sufficiency out of their hours >> thank you very much. this will lowering the overtime but i appreciate the explanation >> i appreciate the partnership

working with the mayor's off and we coming up with those projections. supervisor reed. >> i'm just curious as to why clearly the direction with the mandatory overtime with the need for new classes and a more rapid pace why did we choose to open station 35 rather than a cadet class. >> when the construction was completed we opened that station up. we basically deviate from prop f for two one half years so we were overdue with reopening that

station. our response time showdown response times so we, you know, we worked with the mayor's budget office we knew we were bringing back that station and that cost is it in overtime it's between 2.5 and $3 million every year >> the disrespects i have asked for an additional class in addition to the classes coming on line for the mandatory overtime and the response was that we choose to open station and this wasn't from the department necessarily it was between reopening station 35 and

open station 35 and there was in favor of the opening the station. >> because obls we basically restaffed the beer continuing to work with the mayor's budget office their fully aware we're understaffed and we're doing the best we can. to me the mandatory staffing requirement with our salaries and the higher amount of overtime it worked well, for awhile but now we're feeling the pain. >> another question i had in the budget analysis report is

part of the budget expenses are coming for the airport. my understanding is the airport sooshdz all of the expenses of that department i'm confused of all the allocation of the airport for the budget >> you're right we have if you happened from the port and the airport and it pays for the stations. and they also pay for the overtime? correct >> but it doesn't read that why harry rose? >> there's general fund portion and it's clearly stated on page

3 of our report if you take a look at on table 3 for the source of fund we say that the airport would be fully paying for the request. the balance of 4 million would be paid but he general fund. we totally agree with the department and they ago with you on that presentation >> i'm trying to said why there's such a large amount of overtime for those folks in particular. >> so i think that was accurate. there's 3 chiefs that exceeded

the amount of salary but because of the shortage in our personnel if they put in a shift for mandatory overtime they're able to make that >> i know there is a large number of chiefs for the department and it doesn't seem as if there should be a significant need foro. in that particular category. i'm trying to understand how you that is possible with the chiefs in general >> you know it covers not only the requirement that it would be preinclude a sick pay or leaves

of absence that's what it counts for . >> the occurrence of mandatory overtime are much more prevalent is in the lower ranks. >> and also with the firefighters and paramedics as well there's a lower number of positions correct? >> yes. >> thank you. colleagues any other questions for the chief? okay. thank you very much we might have more questions we open the analysis report. and a member on the report of page 2 of the report excuse me. page 3 the fire department has based on their proenlss on the 3

months of fiscal 2013 through the pay period. based on the most rights expenditure data due to the pate period ending the 34 hundred and 66 thousand less than department projections as supervisors it is absolutely correct this is simply a transfer of fund a reappropriation from surplus permanent salaries and benefits to overtime. so there's no additional funds from the department being requested. in fact, if those fund were not needed for overtime a portion of

which she is sigg is telling you or not that would be would go back to the fund to fund any other project in accordance with the priorities of board of supervisors. supervisorss i also want to state that i will stake my reputation as of june 30th the forth coming the fire department will have more than 5 how does of structure plus funds. of 18 hundred and 18 employees i will stake my reputation the controller can verify if i am correct or not. the point is if you leave the money now here it will be

extended ono.. if you reduce the request and then the department subsequently comes back to the board of supervisors and a shows a demonstrated need that we're wrong and they need the additional money we would absolutely say they're correct. but i'm stating that i do state my reputation there are be more than competence money. we recommend that to reduce the general from 4 million to 3 you million 188 and that you reduce the same reappropriation to 4

million and that you approve the proposal. and if you accept that that money will run to the general fund. >> thank you, mr. most o rose. chief mentions or articulated the numbers you used were based a number it's a trait line number and it's been stated in past years there's been spent so straight line take that off that summer time - >> we didn't use the straight line figures. going forward into the summer we looked because it was in our

data stats it was definitely increased spending there. there is a period, however, we don't really see a need for above average spending. we take into account there might be holidays and such but they couldn't tell us how the spending would be used. >> a few comments colleagues because of the legislation that was passed were back before us today. this is the legislation i helped to sponsor. clearly the fire department has its nuclear situation with the staffing levels and the current

status of our workforce and i think it's embarrassing as a city that we don't fund those. i do want to look at this again, i think it's a real travesty we don't do this as a city. and over time as you replace salary with o.j. to fund those missing short time hours. i think it's like we refund the police department different program but at the same time issue. we're going to have to hire more folks. i think what he have is an issue about the $400,000.

we can accept mr. roses recommendations or regret those recommendations. we could also put that amount of money on budget committee reserve florida we needed this money down the road we wouldn't have to have a month to month appropriation issue that were we could then revisit and see if we need to take up mr. roses reputation as well. >> i have a question for mr. rose i want to make sure i understand. if we kit the $466,000.

you believe they're going to use less over that time and a supervisor i'm talking about their entire budget they have a many 3 hundred and have $6 million budget and by june 3rd they're going to have more than that. my point is supervisor if you don't accept our recommendation or reserve it it will the department will spend it on overtime in my judgment unnecessarily. i'm sigg to the board to reassure yourself whether or not i'm