that could happen. and if that happens, first of all, it is a maximum of 90 days, but second, the director has the authority to revoke the permit. so if you have someone who comes in and all of a sudden starts acting out and doing all sorts of problematic things the director can revoke before the 90 days and say, go and apply for a regular permit. i gave you a shot and you screwed up. >> yeah. i get the reason for why we would give the stopgap measure and i am sympathetic to the employees and the people depending on a venue and not understanding our permitting process as to the reason why they can't go to a venue, there is a reason why new owners get vetted and a good way to get educated if they are not familiar with what is necessary to be a responsible owner. so you might have a case of a new owner that wants to be responsible but gets educated through the permitting process. but knowing that the dreker has

the right to deny or to undo, a stopgap permit that makes sense. >> that was my question. thank you. >> i did and i drafted and this will be the same language unless you drafted something already. for the extended hours and place of entertainment section and it would be, i think that those are, identical paragraph and it would be at the end of the paragraph saying that this temporary permit may not be renewed as a temporary permit. only those two locations. >> that is great. and i did have the one, and the one area that i am concerned about and i see a lot of responsible permit holders and the audience today, is when you have a permit, for a place that

has been problematic. and just use, and imp ala in north beach and that changes hands, is there additional or should there have... i i think that there ought to be a bit more scrutiny to insure that when a problematic permit holder is trading or is changing hands, that we are not simply whitewashing or putting on new, you know, a new name, suggesting that it is going to the new ownership when it is going to continue the same activity and could you give us a sense of what type of additional scrutiny and the staff will do to insure that is not the case, i have wondered if we should put in the additional language for the permits to take the prior factors into account and get your thinking on that. >> it is a good question and a reasonable thing that arise. and typically when you have a problem venue let's just say impala and they are no longer

in business. and obviously it is clear to us, you know, at that commission, why and who was involved, and in some cases it is better to move them out then do another kind of lengthy you know corrective action and so they might sell, and they might give themselves up to par and what would i do with respect to a nut operator applying and this includes a security plan and any other disriptive stuff as to how they intend to operate and these are the operating permits and that is the function of this, and the partners in the police department and going to help me, and we are going to determine whether it is in fact a whitewash, as you called it,

or someone honestly coming in to create a new business. >> and i guess the situation that i am concerned about is even if it is totally new operators, they are operating in the same place in the same venue and folks who have been used to going to a particular venue and stirring up trouble where they don't need to be are going to show up saturday night and that is what we know and even if it is new operators it may not be that significant change in how they interact with their clientele and so, again, i have actually wonder first degree we should include a little bit of language that says for the temporary permit if there has been a history of public safety issues at that place, that the entertainment director shall ask of the new permit how they intend to resolve the issues trying to make sure that we are asking those new operators to do their homework in thinking about how to run a business differently to not create issues for the commercial corridor or the neighborhood. >> we have sense in your mind of how long it will take for the old clients to not come

back? >> i have no idea. i would not mind getting feedback from the experts in the audience, again we are saying. >> i think that the issue, the question is whether we should just try to... >> and not necessarily legislate it or that we should try and implementation or apolicy level at the entertainment commission to make that decision on how we implement the way that this is written here and then have to get a little more nimble if it is not adequate. >> and because we all hear about the problematic venues and how they closed down and start up again and still remains problematic. >> but i hope that we are not hearing that very often any more. but i am hopeful that we are enough in our corrective action that the people get the message that we are not hearing that. >> if i could just... i understand president chiu where you are coming from, but i think that we are trying to balance with this, you know,

allowing, you know, the overwhelming bulk of these businesses are not problem venues, there are some that are but there are many that are not. and allowing there to be a transition and the more analysis requirements that we put on the commission and say look into this and say this and this, and it almost defeats the purpose for allowing for a one time, temporary permit, in addition to legislation does not require the director to grant the temporary permit and it is more, it is permissive and may and so if there is a venue that has had problems, and maybe did not rise to the level of revocation, the director certainly can say, you know what? i think that there are changes that need to happen here before you get up here. >> and i know that the commission is subject to criticism about not enforcing at the level that we wanted.

but over the last few years in particular, i think that the commission has really stepped up its game in terms of going after bad actor and giving them more enforcement tools here and i think that the way that we have it drafted here as it strikes a good balance, and we are very careful about the way that we did it. >> and if i think about a quick response to that, and i would keep thinking about this to add on the language it was just something that i was concerned about. and i would agree that in my first couple of years in office in 2009 and 10, and 2011 we were all concerned as a city about the lack after tension of the entertainment commission on the variety of different venues and i think that that has changed now. and now, i would like to see the reports so we understand and so we had a hearing at our public safety committee where it showed that for 2012 members had increased significantly, for a variety of reasons, and

certainly my district, the feedback that i continue to get and the phone calls that i get from the neighbors is the problems have not gone away and there are times on this issue, that i wish that we could change the places and represent each other's districts to have a sense so that the folks can understand the issues on the street with that being said. i would just simply ask the executive director and of the commissioners who are here, and to the colleagues of your entertainment commission, i would appreciate continued vigilence to make sure that as the transition occurs we are not transitioning problems from the venue to the same venue. >> and i will just say that i think that there was a debate about the statistics about what they actually meant and so that there was, i think, not necessarily an opinion about that and while i would be, i would be happy and i would be great that we should all be training the districts and try to understand the districts because we all have to make the decisions for the whole city

and not just for the district and i know that three members of this committee, i think that we all do a good job of understanding what is going on around the city. i completely, i do, broad way is definitely a problem. and my district and supervisor kim's district and i know that we all have our challenges in our district. and crowd issues not at the level admittedly but it is something that we deal with and i have had bad actors in terms of night life venue and some of them are gone. and that is a positive thing. but it is something that we all deal with, but i and the commission were very conscious of making sure that the commission has the tools that it need to both allow for the night life and also to enforce against the bad actors and that is why we increased the

enforcement to pass and the powers of the commission significantly in several areas so that the commission can crack down on bad actors, without throwing the baby out with the bath water. >> could i ask one other question, i know last year during the budget process, supervisor weiner and i had worked together to give your commission the authority to hire additional staff and the last that i heard was that you had had challenges getting approval to hire that last staffer from others within the administration, where are we right now? >> we are weeks away, we have an offer on an individual and we have been through the interview process and i want to say weeks away, long it takes to do finger proofing to hiring that additional enforcement person. >> i am very glad to hear that, i know that you have been diligently pursuing that new hire that we have vanted to see, i do not know what the hold up was, but i am glad to hear that news. >> and i know that you we ,

so i know that it is not an entertainment issue. and i think that it may have been the civil service process. but i just to convey how incredibly frustrated i am and i am sure that president chiu after we got the funding that we are now to approve another budget and the person still is not on the staff. >> and so, that is a frustration that will convey to whoever is listening. >> supervisor kim? >> thank you. >> i am very frustrated that we are almost at the next budget cycle and this position that we proved has not been hired yet and i know that that is not an issue for the entertainment commission but many other departments have expressed to me how difficult it is to get the hires in that we approved last year to see the processes better for the members of the public. so i will just reiterate that frustration too. i actually had a positive experience with our

entertainment venue owners in district six. and it is really more, the just in case question, and i know that that will certainly be a big concern for the neighborhoods but i have to say that we have had really good venue owners in district six and so i will just say that, and i did have a question about ex-expanding llp to outdoor, venues and i was just reading the language, and i know that it was before, and when it said that the local is in doors and 200 square feet and that also applies to the new amended language that was put in saying the outdoor plaza courtyard of 200 feet or less. enclosed by the surrounding buildings, with or without the means of public egress or egress. is that referring to the surrounding buildings or to the outdoor plaza courtyard.

>> i think that the plaza courtyard. >> okay. the way that it reads to me and i am not sure sf the city attorney wants to weigh in on this, it seems to refer to the surrounding buildings. >> what page are you on? >> page six. and that does not make sense, i know that it was the other way but i can see the confusion. i think that it is just good to clarify that. >> what? >> this is actually lines one and two.

>> we will deal with this after we duplicate the file is the language that i outlined before about the temporary permits being non-renewable that i stated for the two locations and the place of entertainment and extended hours, and then on page 6, line, two, and insert a comma after the word buildings. >> and then are we going to think about or consider any additional noise issues if we give an llp to one that wants to use it in an outdoor plaza verses in doors, i know that sound just travels much, much father when you are outside verses within a building frame.

>> so, the question is, are we going to consider... >> i guess what would be the considerations in granting an llp to the outdoor courtyard. >> so the biggest consideration is what you said, is that there is four walls and a roof and so you can't be required to contained inside of the building but we would obviously use the sound check and if you can get into a neighbor, unit, we would start at a decibel level and something that we can have a bright line on to know where it is, and violation or not. outdoors is a little more complicated at times because of the ambient besound moves around and so we are talking about to ten p.m. period. >> and so hopefully we do the sound testing at a fairly reasonable time frame. and then, when it really drops, the music is off any way. ten p.m. instead of where it is

ambient outside it really drops. >> you would test the ambient noise and similar to what we would do in a sound test situation for a larger permit because i did think that the pim impacts are real and i also want to just let you know that the number of llps is quite small, right now. and the number of these unexpected to be a large number, by a long shot. >> so, we will start slow and we will see how it goes. >> how many llps are currently granted? >> probably 25. at most. >> of just the first requests for an extension of hours? >> because, you have to wait a year without incident and so we are creating that process, now, and so there are very few of

them and so this is nice to have a tool that starts slow, and hopefully this will work right out of the box. >> well those are granted an outdoor permit be able to get an extension from eleven p.m. after a full year. >> i don't think that the law is allows that. i think that we decided... we limited it to ten p.m. >> okay. >> i think that we made... >> okay. >> and the extension is just for a live performance, just for indoor. >> okay. >> thank you. >> great, colleagues, are there any additional questions or comments? >> seeing, none, we will move to public comment. i have several public comment cards, brian onan, joshua smith, kevin carroll, gary marlin joe grubo. and you don't have to do it in the same order, you can come up and start.

>> my name is brian onan, and i am, the walk the city in many hours and i am a little bit perplexed because a lot of these venues that you have discussed even where alcohol is sold, where there is dancing and so forth the noise level is not a factor, the city basically closes down pretty early into the morning hours. and the it is actually a safety factor to have many of these organizations running. the other thing that i have a concern about noise in terms of civil liberties. for example, in the mission, if you go there any sunday in particular, there are hispanic christians speaking in spanish

and using very homophobic hate speech and they are near the mission police station, and nothing is ever done about that. i do respect their right to freedom of speech, but they do encourage violence against transgender people in the mission and gay people. also, unions, who have protests, and where noise may be used against them and also how do you distinguish between, for example, the people on union square you are talking about, the guy that plays the drums or the bag pipe who comes occasionally and gives us beautiful music and there seems to be a constitutional problem there and so i would urge for a little consideration on some of the constitutional issues that are involved with this issue of the noise.

>> thank you. >> good evening, supervisors, so i was going to come up he and say that this legislation has come before the commission and vetted by the commission and the commission voted on it unanimously and that we were happy, the legislation, we felt was going to help us promote more responsible night life and give us further ability to do our enforcement. but, after hearing your questions, i wanted to address a couple of issues with regard to the outdoor sound and supervisor kim. these permit come before our commission and i pretty much require to give me their sound plan. for outdoor sound, right now, there is a new technology in speakers, where they are low profile and low throw. and it is something that if this goes through for outdoor sound i am going to require people to do that installation. so the low profile and low

throw and just involved the installation around a pool and very residential area, that we put 14 speakers in. we spaced them apart by ten feet, you cannot hear it at all, outside of the pool area. the throw is only 10 feet. so, this new technology is something that i am hoping and they are not, they are not request for evidence. and so i think that this new technology is something that we would ask the people to investigate, you know, and because they are not cost prohibitive, i think that that is really important and also with regard to the extended hours permit. i am proponent of late night food personally. and i really think that late night food is important in our city as well as in many other cities. and what we have seen a lot with the extended hour permits is primarily food. so having said that i just also wanted to mention that the members of the snac supporting this, and supporting but they had to lee.

so i wanted to bring that to your attention. >> thank you, very much. >> good evening, supervisors i am the executive director of the hotel council and also the board member of the id and i want to thank you, supervisor weiner to working on this legislation and supervisor chiu for the work that you have done to work with us in the entertainment industry, and the hotel industry will respect and honors the entertainment industry and we worked together to help people enjoy the time that they are here and i wanted to share with you the situation that this legislation is going to help us out. and my office is on union square and across from two major hotels and probably 2,000 hotel rooms within and right next to union square and quite often from one in the afternoon to ten at night we have a difference between drummers that come and just drum continually, and so it will be like sitting here in this meeting today and having a

drummer outside of your window drumming and in the evening we have a band that sets up that should have a permit but doesn't, that is four speakers pointing upwards and we talked about the sound traveling and this is pointing up at a hotel and an office building and a place for hours and sells cds without a permit. we call the police every day and we work closely with them and the situation if there is no ramifications if someone is cited so this legislation is helping us and we want to thank you for that tao. >> for those listening that the idea that definitely the freedom of speech is protected amplified is not. and when you have amplification on something that is bombarding a hotel that is selling to allow people to sleep, our hotels are issuing every single morning because of the drumming and live bands that are set up illegally outside of the hotels and that is costing thousands of dollars when it happens and

we thank you for the work on the legislation and appreciate it. >> thank you. >> okay, supervisors. i'm with becca and bfc and bfc has a management company that has venues that operate in president chiu's district. and representative kim's district. and i think that this is kind of a reasonable legislation. and i also had a couple of comments listening to the questions back and forth. and i think president chiu has done some great legislation and this is kind of a carry on and i also believe that the entertainment commission has been a lot more responsive these last several years and we appreciate that since we were all looking for kind of a responsible club owners, as well. and now, i would just say that as for the late night, you know, it is kind of a double edged sword and so there has

been an explosion of the underground late night venues, and they are in both of your districts. and it is kind of the and so they are out there and so they are unregulated and so i just kind of be careful about that. and so, that is about all that i have to say. and i want to support the legislation. >> good evening. >> i want to ask you a quick question, what would you do now that they are under regulated to deal with the situation. >> the under regulated clubs is just a police matter and they can't do anything with it. >> as far as... you have places that don't have a good late night plans, you can stay open a couple of hours, you have to do aband c and you have to have a security guide after eleven in the evening and you might

make your neighborhood more secure. but you have all of these guys kind of pouring out at 2:00 in and you are adding a low security on to the street as opposed to having these places that are unregulated. so i think that the answer to it is having venues that are regulated with good security plans, camera good lighting and whether that be a pis za place or a club, i think that it would be helpful. >> thanks that confirms a lot that i have heard. >> if i could just yeah, if i could just add to that he can change, i think that also, to be it is nuanced because we had a situation where the entertainment commission for a minute was interpreting the police codes to require that every 24-hour restaurant have a security guard in the middle of the night. and including for example, (inaudible) in my district, and a requirement that for some 24-hour restaurants i think

that it would cause them just to close down in the middle of the night because it is no longer economically viable and so i think that it is important to different neighborhoods of different needs and corridors with different needs. >> thank you. >> >> thank you, supervisor and good evening, chancler with the union business and i am here to speak in support of this legislation this evening and i want to thank you for introducing the legislation and i understand and realize that there are probably (inaudible) indoor venues but i appreciate you accepting the amendment from supervisor chiu and urgent to address some of the other things taking place on union square in the sidewalks. and you have amplified news that is bombarding our business and our individuals are trying to work during the day and the guests that are staying at our hotel. again all of the (inaudible) we

called the police daily and to it and have urged us to introduce the legislation that will give them the tools to enforce the noise regulations in the area. we appreciate you introducing this and working forward to bring this amendment and we do support it. >> thank you. >> next speaker >> good evening, supervisors my name is (inaudible) and i am a permit consultant in san francisco and i have taken many project sponsors through the process. and i just want to say this, when the limited live permit was originally issued, because there was a lot of demands it was cost prohibitive for many venues to operate because of the accessive, the $2,000 fee and the inspections that you have to pay and whatever else you had to pay in order to obtain a permit. even though we only have 20 or 25 permits haen

issued, i don't think that there is any insurance did incidents on those that are problematic and i think that we are on the right track and however when that was issued there is an understanding that after a year there would be trailing legislation and everything else. but you did not want to put everything on the table at the beginning because it was new. and i think that after a year, we can see that you know, having the outdoor version of that up to ten, i mean, it is not uncommon for someone to have a house party in their own home with no permit or their backyard but ten has to be cut off for that because then is goes into disturbing the peace or adverse impact or what have you. in addition, i wanted to touch about the moratorium or the thing about late night, what has happened as there has been some police activity to monitor spaces to find ouif people are incompliance and so it is

not a trend that there are all of those people that want late night and people that are operating without a permit and without a proper security plans and without the surveillance cameras and the proper security and without good lighting and not taking care tf and or the good neighbor policies them coming forward right now is a great sign, so now that we have more responsible owners and issues in more eyes and ears on the streets and so a brighter future with everybody in compliance now. >> thank you. commissioner lee? >> okay. hello supervisors, i am one of the entertainment commissioners in the industry and also a club owner, and i have had a poe since 1998, and we treat our poes as a gold, you know, asset of our business. and after extended