outreach and i ask for a continuation for lori's diner to do outreach to the community, because the community isn't all business owners. the community is retired people. it's disabled people in our district. and they would probably much appreciate outreach by lori's. we see it and it looks like the '50s all over again. i know not everybody in this room lived through the '50s, but you know, to tell you the truth, the '50s weren't that clean. so i appreciate this homage to the '50s. thank you very much. >> thank you very much. >> good evening commissioners,

my name is john knulty and i'm here representing and co-founder of the association of san francisco and i would like the overhead please. here is the signage for the permit for -- this is the one on sutter and this is going up powell. so a person walking up or down the street, this is your permit way up here on the third window. i don't consider that even the front of the building. i don't consider that a proper place to place your entertainment permit for a venue. then for his diner on mason, again up in the corner, way up in the corner. that isn't eyesight for people to look up there for a permit. city and county has permits

that are issued for various reasons and that is not where the city and county of san francisco allows under their laws for different departments to have a permit placed. so i don't know about yours, because i couldn't find it on your website and that is why i am concerned about where the permits are, because that is not giving the public notice of what they are doing. and also, again, i met with him, and his ceo in may for them to come to a community meeting. neither of them showed up. also, we asked -- we told them in the meeting that they had to come to our meeting and that we wanted to hear about their security plan and also to hear about what do they plan on doing and how they are going to comply with the entertainment permit? we did nice outreach to them and tried to explain to them

what the process was. they didn't seem to understand it and why they have to come here and this is the first time i had to come in front of this commission, because i felt, well, i took the time out of my day to meet with the president and then his ceo. neither of them decided to come to a community meeting, were they were well-informed that day and emailed and so forth afterwards and never showed up. i am concerned about these consultants with the union square bid. this is not the first time i had heard -- because i watch this commission meeting heard, that they come and considered outreach when he is a member of the board. the union square bid enlarged, doubled in size and took over half of the area and i'm concerned that they are representing the business.

>> thank you very much. >> they are not representing the residents. >> any other public comment on lori's diner? seeing none, you already spoke. any other public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. so come on, if you want to talk, talk. >> my name is it [ [ inaudible ] , i am one of the employees at lori's diner and want to let you know how great how great mr. kim is to the employees,

230 employees. i believe one of the motivations from mr. kim to open up sutter street for 24-hours is to accommodate some of the employees that we're being laid-off for a good few months. i really appreciate that. i think it's a very good heart on him. by opening 24-hours, 8-hour shifts saved at least 5-10 employees to be able to be employed for at least to support their family and so i hope that will be taken into consideration. thank you thank you. any other public comment? [ gavel ] public comment is closed. okay. so commissioners, before

we consider a motion, i have a question for staff, and then i want to make some comments. with regard to the placement of the permit, the notification of permit, is it considered placed properly? >> no, and when they come in, we told them that it has to be visible eye-level. and it has to be visible when you are walking in the door. >> okay. so if the permit is not placed properly. >> the notification. >> the notification, sorry, if the notification is not placed properly, do we continue and replace -- make them repost the permit? and then come back to us? what is the rule? >> if the commission considers that notification not conspicuous enough, you can do that. it's your discretion. >> okay. what is z staff say? is it conspicuous enough? is it placed properly >> well, again, i only took a small look at that. i would have to look at it

again for you to note the decision on me right at this moment. yes, the other consideration is -- thank you -- the other consideration is other ways as well to outreach -- thank you. whether there is any other indication that, in fact, there was notification done. this is one way, obviously, that we ask them to notify. >> while you are looking at that, i want to make some comments. first of all, i wanted to talk a little bit of something that supervisor duftiy supervisor dufty did with the castro

district to bring the district into compliancing and at that time, it was never that these businesss in operation for 40 years, 50 years close down. they operated for 40 years without a permit and they had to do it by a certain time and all of those people that did got their permits. but we never required them to close down and i think in some cases we take cases individually; that might actually have set a precedent for having the business, who is a long time operator, not close down, if they were not aware that they needed a permit. in the case of nan curry, that was a different situation in my

view. in my view about mr. kim being on the board of bid, neighborhood associations, historical societies, he is in the industry and it would only make sense he would participate within his industry. now i'm on a lot of things in my industry. so i mean, i don't see that that would be a negative. certainly people should testify for him that in organization s where he does not sit on the board. however, he is active in his industry and i personally don't see that as a conflict and lastly, but not least, i think local businesses and neighbors should have neighborhood outreach. but i am not an advocate for any neighborhood organization

telling anyone that they "have" to come to a meeting, that they "must" come to a meeting or else. that is a form of bullying and i am personally, just feel that is unconscionable that you tell them that they have to do that. in any my view, nobody has to do anything that. is my two cents. anybody else? >> i am curious about the police recommendations. we have the situation that we have currently and it's case-by-case. >> right. >> i agree that the signage issue and the hours of

operation comparison with nan curry is a different situation. it was an inconsistent message with a hostile environment that was createded as a resulted and that was our issue. >> thank you, anybody else? that is funny, i had "being told" written down, too. i agree that you cannot tell a business that "they have to" come to your meeting. going to an organization that you sit on the board is an easy way out and you are not really going out into the community and integrating into the neighborhood, and presenting your permit to people who may offer a different view an the organization that you actually belong to, or are a board

member to. so there is definitely in my eyes an issue with only going to your organization. however, at the same time, they have been there for forever and they have been open late for forever and i personally do not think that we should withhold these permits, but i am going to speak to condition no. 2; if we do accept these proposed conditions for lori's diner that it end with a period after "30 days and strike, be made "available to the, et cetera." >> is lori's central? >> one is central and one is tenderloin. >> has central station

received complaints about lori's diner? officer matthias, can you speak to that. >> steve matthias from from central station and looking at the stats and i don't have them in front of me. any time you are open late-night you have to look at your clientele and it runs the gamete from people traveling with hotels in the area and people with jet lag and they will get a bite to eat in the middle of the night. you have people at the nightclubs that will come over and sober up and you have others getting off work. looking at that, i would say, the businesses, both businesses from a law enforcement point of view, we really like them. it's a really well-lit place. there is order in there. they have cameras and i know on sutter they have a security guard available and so you have that visual presentation

presentation and if you look at crime prevention through environmental design, he has the criteria there, being well-lit, windows open, and the booths, no backs on them and you can see it and the environment is really good for having late-night, any time, but it's not a secluded, dark place. so for the central station, and actually i'm here to speak on behalf of the tenderloin station as well tonight. we are looking for approval for both of those. i think we listed a couple of conditions. no. 1 was regarding the security guard and 2, maintaining the security system that they already have have and making sure there is no loitering outside. >> thank you. so commissioners, after looking at

the pictures, jocelyn, do you think there is a problem with the posting? >> i would say that mason, on this picture in particular looks high to me. that is not conspicuous in my opinion. i think the other one is adequate. >> okay. thank you very much. so with regard to all right no. 5 a, man kim doing business as as lori's diner, 500 sutter street, to move to approve with condition endsing with a period after "30 days ." and being made available to sfpd and sf ecupon request." >> motion and second. >> further discussion on 500 sutter street, it lori's diner?

>> i have a question can we deal with the motion of 500 sutter only? >> whether it's that or in general. i am saying that i'm still on the fence about operating after 2:00. and obviously when he was applying because it happened on broadway and things like that. and i'm just afraid that another applicant is going to come up and use the same excuse and there might not be as clean as mr. kim's place and it might be a security issue. so how are we going to discuss that one? >> i think in that kind of scenario, if that does come up, we're treating things case-by-case and we'll know that they are not clean. we'll know that they have a record. we'll know that they are bad to their neighbors. >> we won't know that until we have already posted. >> i think that that is beyond

the scope of this motion. so i think we stay with the motion. if you want to discuss the approval or lack thereof for 500 sutter, the discussion is a motion on the floor. any further discussion? >> as part of the motion to allow them to operate after 2:00? >> the motion is for an extended hours permit. >> this will bring them into compliance; right? >> it's for an extended hours permit, bringing them into compliance. >> i would like to make one comment really quickly, because i think it's relevant to the permit. it sounds like we're getting hung up on technicalities of the process and the process is in place to ensure safety and entire that neighbors aren't bothered and to ensure that they are running a good business that serves a need out there after-hours. when we start to pick apart the

process and say you are not meeting that process, when the real intention and the question here is that they have been good to their neighbors. they have been secure. the police like them. i don't know that we want to have the technicalities get in the way of them continuing to run. so i think there is at different points in time we pick apart things and maybe because they are the only applicant today we are picking them apart with a very fine-toothed comb, but i believe they behaved very well and where you place your sign is sure important to the process, but it seems that they have already met that. >> thank you very much . is there any other discussion? call the roll. >> approving extended hours for 500 sutter, commissioner tan? >> aye. >> commissioner lee? >> aye. >> commissioner joseph? >> aye. >> commissioner hyde? >> aye. >> commissioner perez?

>> aye. >> commissioner akers? >> aye. >> so taking commissioner tan's comments into consideration, our choices commissioners are to move to if they had to repost 336 mace [kwro-rpbgs/] mason, how long would that posting be for? >> 30 days. >> so i present this to the commission. we either require them to repost 336 mason, i'm sorry, mr. kim, you already had your chance. the matter is with the commission. there is nothing for to you say. so we either ask them to repost 336 mason and ask them to continue until that posting is done correctly or we make a decision that enough outreach was done, so that people are aware of this and also, because their operation has been continuous for more than a

decade and the matter that we make a decision it's sufficient notice? so that lies with the commission here. i am open for discussion on that. >> i don't think it was the best idea, but i am going move to approve this with the same conditions that were set on the other one, striking after the period "30 days." motion. >> second. >> a motion and second. further discussion? >> same house, same call? >> so moved. >> okay. all right no. 6 -- >> good luck to you. >> item no. 6, discussion and possible action to implement neighborhood outreach policy for permit applications. commissioner hyde, you are up.

>> this is just to pinpoint how outreach should be done. i would like to strike no. 2 and no. 4 and say they are covered under no. 1 and another intention is that, which i think is going to probably go into discussion is that applicants must do two of the types of outreach that are being said that are acceptable. these are suggested practices for meaningful neighborhood outreach and they are intended to take the guesswork out of what kind of outreach is acceptable and how it should be a[ko-frpbd/], integration into the fabric of the neighborhood is a vital part of maintaining nightlife vens and these guidelines are to encourage better communication, integration with neighbors and neighborhood communities. when doing the outreach a permitee must include the information about the type of

license applying for, the hours of that license will be in use, the permitee is also asked to do two of the following types of outreach: and be completed by the time they make their presentation to the entertainment commission and they should be prepared to answer the commissioners' questions about this outreach. it says failure to do so will impede the process being granted the permit until the outreach stated below is complete, but i believe that is actually something that we cannot say. and then, i'm just going to talk about the types of outreach. no. 1 is the presentation to the neighborhood or community groups. specific information must be given to the type of permit that the permitee is seeking. the permitee is to share any and all relevant information as to hours of operation and entertainment type, security

plan, as well as plans for neighborhood integration. and that if they have neighborhood integration also covered in our good? neighborhood policy. there should be an oral or visual presentation given before the members of the group at least one of their regularly scheduled meetings and members should be able to voice concerns about the license being sought. a letter from the community or neighborhood group should be included in the permitee's packet for review by the commission; which would be no. 2. and we can have discussion about this, but we had one meeting so these are our ideas. 50-100 signatures is another way of doing outreach. the permitee may present information to neighbors about the type of permit the permitee is seeking, including types and hours of operation, security and neighborhood integration plan and should be gathered within a four-block radius of the front door the permitee's

venue to inform neighbors of the changes to the neighborhood fabric and impress on the permitees that the venue has you ascope on the community and not just the surroundings. these signatures should be presented to the commission for review in the pack, et cetera. and the third choice, which would be no. 5, moving to no. 3 is presentation to the leadership of local non-profits that deal with the community support such as housingion, at-risk youth, health and mental services. the presentation must include information about the type of permit that the permitee is seeking, including type of entertainment, hours of operation and security, as well as neighborhood integration plans. a letter from the organization must be submitted in the packet for review at the commission hearing. and then we also would like to put into writing that -- and i'm not sure where the community groups are, cami.

i know there is a website where the community groups are listed. >> if you go to the planning department, it will bring down a list. >> if we could include how to get there, i would appreciate that. i just kind of sfgov.org, but to replace that with the actual website. >> i will give you that. >> and suggest that you contacts your supervisor's office or look at the list of community groups at the address that cami will provide -- miss black s.t.o.p., sorry to call you by your first name. i would like to open up for discussions. >> that is great. maybe somebody doesn't know what a poe or extended-hours

permit. so type and description and i think it's important that we put the onus of how intense the outreach is based on the population. so in item no. 3, which is 50-100 neighbor signatures, i think that that could be unreasonable if there are only a few homes in the neighborhood or only a few businesses and it could also be unreasonable as too little, if there are like massive amounts of high-rises, with thousands of apartments in them. so i would like to suggest that we put a reasonable basis and we would have to think about the words, but a reasonable amount of signatures based on the population of the neighborhood's businesss and residents. i think the onus of how intense

the outreach should be should also be based on what is being applied for or what is going on? so a new poe or a new extended-hours permit or new limited live, where one has never existed before, should have a greater amount of outreach than somebody who is having a change of ownership for a business that has existed where there is no change in the way that the business will operate. so if joe as nightclub has been here for ten years and joe sells it to jim and jim doesn't want to change it, [pha-eubt/] outreach could be less if there are no compliant complaints and if somebody is out of compliance and they have to bring them into compliance, but they have been there for a long period of time. maybe the level of outreach, if there were no complaints would

be different. and conversely, where there has been outdoor events, you know, outdoor where sound carries, i think possibly the outreach should be even greater than that of a new poe. so i think that we have to think about levels. also commissioners, if you were not aware, the entertainment commission already has a neighborhood outreach policy for applicants which is in your packet. and i do believe it's on our website. i do believe this was developed a while ago. and so, maybe we can find some time to read it and also, staff has included the -- this is the planning commission's neighborhood notification. so maybe you would like to really read that as well. i think it's a great idea that we do neighborhood outreach.

i agree with commissioner hyde that building community is a great thing and those are my comments. anybody else? >> i have a question. i was wondering if we can ask them to notify the staff, if they have been -- if they are planning to going to a neighborhood outreach. so that some of us might want to be part of that or go as well? could that be something >> is that a burden to the staff is the question, we don't have a lot of staff. and we have five applicants for a brand-new poe and five different neighborhoods meetings, can we ask the staff to accompany these people to their meetings? >> just alert us that they are going to a meeting, so some of us might want to go to that meeting. >> i see. >> and so to go back to that.

so all of these determinations of how -- which outreach, you know? because when they get the application and they spend their money, they walk out the door and who do they report to say, well, i believe it's this kind of impact. so i'm going pick this kind of outreach. you see what i am saying? by the time they get here, you are not satisfied and then what? we continue? >> i think we enumerate, based upon the permit that they are applying for. >> giving credence to audrey's concerns, if they are national hurricane center they have to do two of the theater and if it's outdoors all three and that sort of