far. you can see from that list, the bulk of the high schools it's a thousand feet. and for a number of the high schools the district did not object to the 750 feet. i completely understand the desire, but i think on balance this is still a block and a half in every -- in every direction. so, that was the thing. i would also note, i forgot to mention before, in my discussions with the food and fitness council in particular, one of the issues that they raised is that in some schools, the school that you don't have enough capacity to serve enough school lunches given the size of the student body, and that they -- there was a desire to have school lunch vending machines that sell the identical lunches, but that increase capacity. and, so, that is part of the budget last year. i was able to obtain an allotment from the city to allow the district to purchase four of though vending machines

to address that issue. i know you're in the procurement process now. so, i definitely tried to put my money where my mouth is in terms of supporting the school lunch program. so, that's the background, president chiu. supervisor kim? >> thank you. actually, it would be helpful for me to see the map just to get a sense of what we're talking about because for me 750 and a thousand, kind of like we're splitting hairs. if i could see a map to have an understanding, i could understand what the impact is either way. i'm not sure i have a strong feeling about either number, but not being able to see what the impact is, i'm not sure i could make a decision. but i did want to ask -- did the board officially take a position via a resolution or is this an informal discussion? >> the board considers it at rules committee. >> okay. >> with the understanding that they were speaking on behalf of the board at that meeting. >> okay. and their position that this is the third column was the position that they took? >> essentially, yes. >> okay.

and could you -- you know, honestly as a policy maker, i prefer one, one footage distance for all high schools. i just feel like there's fluidity amongst our schools and there are changes that happen, exactly what i explained before. co-location, kind of changes in open, closed campus policies. i know that wasn't one of the driving factors in the end, but i guess i'm having a hard time understanding the distinction between these seven schools and the other schools. for the school district, i get it for the planning department in terms of the planning code kind of restriction in the area. but i guess for the school district, i'm curious as to why hilltop, principal center and civic center is okay. i don't understand why a smaller school population would matter in terms of the overall policy around healthier food. do you understand -- >> sure. >> we care about we care about nutrition, we don't care about

the smaller schools. i'm curious about the logic for that. >> first let me be clear. we don't careless about our hilltop students, they're all our children equally. we want to make sure they're eating healthy. the other great thing supervisor wiener was great to provide, we don't want class conflict, other issues. i believe partly in was in the spirit of compromise to, to recollect some schools. the other issue is -- there are two counties schools. there are tougher restrictions on the movement -- in terms of -- excuse me, i don't mean tougher. i mean the movement is somewhat very, very different from the way that a comprehensive high school would work. ~ reckon so, for example, if we take civic center high school where the students come and go throughout the day, it's a little bit tougher to control that or keep it under any guidelines it terms of their movement and the way they would

move across the city. ~ in terms in terms of priority and the actual dynamic of what's happening at those campuses, it was less urgent at those sites than it was at the three comprehensive with larger student population. from a more practical standpoint more students affected. and also a past history of what we've seen in the past. president chiu, you brought the case of gallileo, that was the impetus for what happened with the food truck legislation in the first place. it was vendors were right outside the campus. >> i remember that. >> yeah, you remember that, supervisor kim. so, that was really -- so, i'm not sure if i explained -- captured your opposition well. that was really the impetus, distinguishing between those four and those three. >> three of these schools i understand are county schools, principal center is county school, hilltop principal center and civic center. >> correct. >> you're saying you feel like you have more control over the

in and out fluidity of students at these three sites? >> actually we have less control -- >> you want a greater buffer, then, for the students? ~ don't you want a greater buffer, then, for the students? >> i believe there is the understanding or the sense that it was really kind of a moot point given the way that those students move and their dynamics and to try to restrict them from a food truck being outside civic center, when the students are doing a job across town, coming in for a single class, just from a practical standpoint wasn't as big a priority. >> okay. do you think there is a real distinction for high school students from 750 and a thousand? do you think that will really impact a student's ability to get or not get food from a food truck? >> our position on the board is yes. ~ that it is. the challenge is we don't have data on this. but our position was that reducing it from 1500, cutting

that radius in half would be a tipping point. but it's hard -- without empirical data it's hard for me to answer that question, but it's more just a concern. >> and in terms is 750 feet half a block? >> yes. in talking with i believe it was commissioner wynn's about some of the thinking when this was first adopted, 1500 feet, was having students cross two streets. 750 versus a thousand in terms of the number of streets to be crossed, it would still likely be one street. it's different on average, 1-1/2 blocks and two blocks. personally, i don't think that that makes a big difference as commissioner persky indicated if a student wants to go to a food truck, whether it's a block and a half or two blocks. it could make a difference in terms of ability of food trucks to be in particular neighborhoods that happen to have those high schools nearby. we know that mission and

o'connell and gallileo happen to be in some pretty heavy duty, high pedestrian foot traffic, busy commercial districts. >> and my last question, civic center used to be an elementary school. so, is it reverted back -- which i don't think it would. if it reverted back to elementary school, would planning code understand that change and have no buffer zone? >> it's only -- it's a public works code. only indicates high schools and middle schools. so, we'll go and double-check that language, but i think it would be pretty clear that if something became an elementary school, it would fall outside the scope of the legislation because we've never had a buffer around elementary schools. >> okay. the legislation specifically calls out civic center high school assessor block and a lot number. so, it may be that -- i just want to know that there is some

level of flexibility because there are changes within the school district map. and, so, i'd hate to amend the legislation every time there is a change. >> and i will also say that we in our lengthy discussion with the district and others, we had considered at one point, well, should we distinguish among schools based on whether they're closed campus or open. maybe closed high school campuses should be treated like middle schools which are closed and we decided in the end that given that it's up to the school community, i believe, and the principal whether that school will be closed, open, or partially open, we didn't feel it was appropriate. so, we did abide, really by location and what the impact or lack thereof is on the surrounding commercial district. >> mr. chair, is there a map that we could look at to understand what that extra half block is going to add -- [multiple voices] >> we don't have a map of the 750 versus a thousand. we do have a quite large map with a 1500 feet that was very

labor intensive project with department of public works early on. i know the district considered doing its own map, but i don't think that that happened. >> we don't have a map to show you. >> because one thing i'd like to ask during public comment if folk have perspectives on this issue, you can explain it during public comment, it would be helpful to hear. >> thank you. thank you, mr. armentraut, much appreciated. okay, next i want to call up the three organizations i think really led in the negotiations, and that's rob black from the golden gate restaurant association, matt cohen from off the grid, and then john boseman from building managers association. ken was the lead on this, but had it a family situation and had to go back east out of town. mr. black. >> good afternoon, s.p.r.x, it's a pleasure to be here.

rob black executive director for the golden gate restaurant association. we represent a little over a thousand member locations of restaurants throughout the bay area ~. but we also have good number of food trucks that we represent as well. so, we're one of those entities that are looking at both sides of this issue. i will say it has been an interesting couple of years in conversation, but i think what -- to me what really captures what we've been trying to achieve, i think everybody at the table, is that idea you don't want to compromise your principles, but you should not be afraid of a principled compromise. and i think that is harp we have come to with this piece of legislation. everybody has given some and taken some. what it really i think attempts to do is address some of the failings of the previous legislation. a big part of that from i think a mobile food truck side, and frankly from a brick and mortar side or property owner side, is

the insecurity of how the previous legislation or the current legislation treats people who participate in the regulatory process. the time and expense of going through challenge over challenge has been really difficult for i think people who are trying to start up a food truck. it's been stressful for those folks who might have a brick and mortar that are initiating challenges to permit. so, i think what this legislation does is or will do would provide a clearer path to all sides about what is allowed and where, really trying to understand how impacts pedestrian traffic, how it impacts our streets. and really striking that balance. we do have one of the most dynamic, if not the most dynamic food season in the country, and part of really integral part of that is what happens on the street.

and, so, allowing for those entrepreneurs, expanding though spaces with the college and hospital campuses, looking at the impactses at the 1500 foot been has had around the schools and reducing those impacts, create more opportunities, where appropriate, ~ for this type of activity. on the flip side, we want to make sure that where a truck is located is, again, appropriate for the space. is there a lot of already existing pedestrian traffic around existing restaurants or other activities that make it not as combatable? and i think the supervisor's legislation really tries to address that, again, from the folks that i've talked to who are representing food trucks or have a food truck, they're not necessarily totally happy with everything, but they get that it's a vast improvement over where it is today in regards to their ability to know what's permit and had what isn't. on the flip side, i think folks who have brick and mortar

restaurants often would want more production. looking at a thousand feet like in chicago. but that's not i think in a dense environment and, again, really trying to create a compromise that works best for everyone, something that in the long run made a lot of sense. i think what the supervisor and the staff and andres has been just a spectacular, really trying to balance and bring everyone together and integrate the conversation, he has done a great job and a great service to the city. so, we're here speaking in support of the legislation. again, it's a mixed bag that we're representing, but we think that in the broad scheme of things it is a great improvement over the existing legislation. so, thank you. >> thank you, mr. black. mr. cohen from off the grid.

>> hi there, good afternoon. my name is matt cohen. i run off the grid. supervisor wiener, thank you very much and andres for what i think is a very -- has been a very earnest two years of effort trying to accomplish what is a really difficult task, which is how does mobile vending fit into a vibrant food scene here in san francisco. so, i appreciate that. i think that from the mobile vending perspective and the more than 50 people that i've talked to as this process has continued, i think that this legislation principally removes the subjectivity of the city deciding what is like food and removes the really unknown pieces of the existing legislation about the timeliness that permits will be delivered to them. just because right now the process can continue for so long.

and i think that this legislation accomplishes that very effectively and hopefully will be a big improvement over the existing legislation. i can speak a little bit to the food or to the school's distance. i think that we would always defer to shorter distances from schools obviously. our market isn't students. our market for the most part are other people that might be near schools. and i think implicitly in the argument with the school lunch program is some question about how healthy the food delivered from trucks are, but there is no similar standard for convenience stores and restaurants that might locate near the schools themselves. so, i would just point that out as well. but on the whole i appreciate, supervisor wiener, your efforts, and i think that this legislation will do good things for mobile food in san francisco. so, thank you. >> thank you, mr. cohen.

mr. boseman from boma. >> yes, hello, supervisors. john boseman with boma in san francisco. ken was the lead staffer for boma, but we did brief each other every weeks. i was fully aware over two years what was going on in the discussion. our members support this legislation. again, after two years of discussion, i think that we found a compromise solution to addressing location, distance, and other issues already addressed here. the effort to improve on the current law is appreciated by our members and help to improve the regulatory framework for future and mobile food permit applications. i appreciate your time. if there's any questions, i'm happy to answer them. >> thank you, mr. boseman. i would note dpw and mta are here in case questions arise

for the agencies. i also want to note i've distributed, we have some technical amendments, nonsubtantive changes to the findings that i've distributed and also the city attorney has requested -- i guess the new trend is when we do definitions in legislation, we don't have numbering in front of them. so, we have the definitions as a, b, c, d, et cetera, under section 184.80. so, after public comment i'll be moving amendments to delete that numbering or lettering, i guess, and also to make the nonsubtantive changes to the findings. and then one last thing before we go to public comment. ~ we had had discussions during the negotiations about the issue of whether -- of brick and mortar restaurants being able to waive the 75-foot rule

potentially if there was some sort of advantage for the neighborhood, of having a food truck within 75 feet. we're not there yet in terms of what that language would look like, so, those will be continuing discussions and possibly trailing legislation. but that was -- has been an on again off again subject of discussion. if there are no additional questions or comments, colleague, we will open it up to public comment. public comment will be two minutes. i have one public comment card, although i know there are -- i think there might be more here. through blue cards in the front. please fill them up and give them to the clerk. so, i will call up dee-dee workman from the chamber of commerce. ms. workman? good afternoon, supervisors. dee-dee workman from the san francisco chamber of commerce representing over 1500 local businesses in san francisco. the chamber commends you, supervisor wiener, and your

staff for taking on this very complex public policy while seeking to balance what's best for both mobile food facilities and bricks and mortar food services, cafes, so on. it is important to recognize the benefits both provide to craft a policy that as best it can encourages and supports a wide variety of food and food services for san francisco residents, workers and visitors without stifling or encroaching upon either type of service. this legislation goes a long way in doing that, particularly the permitting and noticing requirements, the radius requirements, the parking restrictions and controls, and the enforcement provisions. we need to continue to be vigilant to ensure bricks and mortar restaurants are able to serve the public and mobile food trucks as well without either enjoying unfair advantages. this legislation attempts to ka achieve that goal and the san francisco chamber approves it and supports it. thank you. ~ >> thank you. i have two additional public comment cards.

mike casso and carolyn kissick. thank you very much, supervisor wiener. mike [speaker not understood] located in the castro. we have a brick and mortar, opening up another brick and mortar and we also have two food trucks. so, i definitely understand both sides of the argument. i definitely commend everyone for all the hard work they put in. it's definitely a battle, but we have seen both sides and are very thrilled with the results so far. [speaker not understood] uponedth schools and the distance, i think there is a big misunderstanding about what a lot of food trucks and the quality of food that they are producing nowadays. i can only really speak for myself and what our company does, but we are extremely healthy, indian food from scratch. so, i take offense to some people in the past who said the

roach coach is nothing but fast food. it's quite the contrary what people are able to produce nowadays in the food trucks. we understand the difficulties and we really look forward to a great compromise in the future. thank you. >> thank you very much. next speaker. and also before you go, let me call the other three cards i have. dan ross, stacey bartlett, and patricia [speaker not understood]. hi, my name is carolyn kissick. i am a restaurant owner of a few businesses in san francisco. we also have a food truck. i wanted to speak a little bit towards the waiver idea. i think that this is definitely something that needs to get passed in the long run, especially because of the differences in restaurant schedules. one of our restaurants is open for lunch and dinner seven days a week. our other restaurants is open only for dinner during

weekdays. and then lunch and dinner on the weekend. we would not care if somebody parked outside of our restaurant during the week and had a food truck. we would actually probably like that. it gets more food truck -- i'm sorry, food traffic in front of our restaurant. it's good for the community. it's going to keep people in our neighborhood rather than going somewhere else during the week. so, i'm really looking forward to having something like that in the legislation [speaker not understood]. and then i wanted to speak to the distance about schools a little bit. i have done a lot of footwork, especially in potrero, on where the boundaries -- the biggest issue between, you know, 750 feet and a thousand feet is actually these schools are pretty close together. so, the problem is these overlapping areas where there may be like a small diamond area that's open, but there's nowhere to park within that. so, 250 feet can actually make

a huge difference in allowing a full block where you could park a truck rather than, you know, a quarter of a block where you probably aren't ever going to be able to fit a truck if there's fire hydrants, et cetera. so, i think if we could keep it to the 750 feet, it would open a lot of space in the denser parts of the city. thanks. >> thank you very much. and actually, i raised the point i forgot to mention at the beginning, the 75 feet goes until 10 o'clock at night so that, for example, if a food truck wanted to seek a permit for the evening, say outside of a club so that people can have something to soak up the alcohol, they could do that. but as is currently the case, nighttime permits would require noticing to residential neighbors. so, with that said, go ahead. my name is stanley roth. i own the stanley steamer hot dog stands. this is our 39th year in business and i just wanted to

thank you, supervisor wiener, and also to thank andres for being so accessible and understanding. what's happened to me is everybody talks about food trucks, this baby in the background was getting thrown out with the bath water. and some of the things that didn't quite address my business properly are fixed in this ordinance. so, i wanted to thank you, thank andres, and thank supervisor kim and president chiu for all the support i've gotten from you all over the years. thank you. >> thank you very much. [speaker not understood]. hi, i'm an sfusd parent and also on the food and fitness committee and i just want to thank you for listening to us and taking the district's concerns to heart. i would love to see a thousand-foot limit for all of our secondary schools. but having said that, i understand all of the things that you're trying to weigh. i myself am a food truck patron

and i will say that it's not necessarily the quality of the food that somebody stated earlier, but more about the access and ensuring the stability of our school lunch program that we've worked so hard to improve. the vendor that we have now is outstanding and we're hoping that that would be enough to compel kids to stay in because the quality of food that's being served inside the schools is no longer a question. but the lure of -- i mean, it's something difficult redthctionv, it's something new and you can get a tweet about it and hear what the hottest newest thing is out there. ~ different and there will be some kids that will be able to go and take advantage that of and some that will not, and that will degrade the social standing of the lunch program and that's one of the things that we're concerned about, that it is an equity issue. i would implore you to please produce a map. i think that would make it a lot easier for everybody to see, as an earlier speaker mentioned, an overlap. i want to be sensitive to that. i like having food trucks and i know there are a lot of other workers in the city that would

like to have access to them as well, but it might be able to help refine that 750 versus a thousand foot radius that would make everyone happier. thanks. >> thank you. next speaker. patricia [speaker not understood], cal hollow neighborhood merchants. we are in favor of food trucks and this is an improvement. however, there are some problems we have. number one is in our meeting with you with the district council merchants, you promised that we would see this legislation and we'd be able to have comments in it before it was presented to the public. it simply did not happen. you also promised a member of your group -- your district that he would see it and it has not happened. we feel that some of the legislation, because of the makeup of the group that you worked with for two years, did

not include the district council of merchants and other small merchants groups as a balance within that committee, and we would like to put some comments in. i'm asking for a continuance on this so that we can have all of the stakeholders at least have a chance to have a comment. the advertising on garbage cans, our brick and mortar aren't allow today do it. we get fines. the [speaker not understood] was taken out. our small [speaker not understood] stands will go out of business if you put a taco truck in front of them and [speaker not understood] needs to be -- needs to be defined correctly because it wasn't before. we're asking for continuance mainly because you didn't keep your promise. and we would like to have the right to have input into this

legislation as well so that we can have one legislation and not have to keep come back amending it and amending it and amending it. and i think we can do it in 30 days. thank you very much. >> thank you. is there any additional public comment on these items? seeing none, public comment is closed. [gavel] >> colleagues, before we get to discussion, in terms just so i don't forget the two amendments before us that i described before, unless there is discussion about that, can we take those amendments without objection? so ordered. [gavel] >> okay. so, colleagues, i want to thank you for participating in today's hearing and thank you to everyone who came out. and also particularly to the folks who -- from the many different communities who are involved in helping to formulate this legislation. we did do outreach very extensively and actually had several quite large meetings over time, in addition to going

out and speaking either by phone or meetings with different merchant groups, or business improvement districts. so, there was quite extensive outreach. as has been indicated a few times, this legislation did result from significant back and forth negotiation, sometimes very contentious negotiation, quite frankly. this is not an easy issue. and i think we came up with a good accommodation, both with respect to the 75-foot rule, et cetera, and also with respect to schools. and just as a reminder, we started out with 500 feet or one block for all middle schools and high schools. the youth commission overwhelmingly almost unanimously endorsed that blanket 500 foot rule as reduced from 1500 feet. but despite the fact that we got strong support from the business commission, from the

youth commission, from others, we nevertheless took to heart the concerns of the school district. and, so, for the bulk of the high schools we did increase it from 500 feet to a thousand feet. but we also tried to be very careful and thoughtful. and because, as i mentioned, there are some schools that are so embedded in the middle of active commercial areas where there's a lot more going on other than just the school, we -- i believe that 750 feet would be appropriate for those schools. you know, of the three schools, i know them all pretty well. the one i know best is mission high school, which is right in my district. and if you look around mission high school in terms of the two truck in dolores park that's probably 3 or 400 feet away, and the many other items of food that are being sold legally or illegally in dolores rk