be banned. and that is so we don't have -- i think the planning department was a bit hesitant to have conditional uses starting to apply to our roadwaysbecause that would be unprecedented. ~ >> that is correct. >> thank you. supervisor kim? >> i do have a question, because i know in the c-3 formula retail as of right, and i think one of the last things i want to see is a burger king or mcdonald's with a truck all up and down market street. so, i just wonder if there's been any consideration about that. i know that that is an area that we allow formula retail, but i just really think that that's just not the direction i want to be headed in. i certainly wouldn't want to see them popping up. >> i can address that. so, actually, i agree with you, supervisor kim. and this is one of those areas where this one particular aspect -- i don't know that there is necessarily a right answer, and i look forward to

discussion about it. i think there is a case to be made, we could ban it city-wide. and we took a middle path, but i'm open to other suggestions on this particular aspect. >> so, i guess i'm just open to some guidance and advice in the future. i think a lot of us support food trucks because it can be a great low-cost way for small businesses to get started. new venture folks that are starting to have an idea and it can be a lower barrier to entry, i guess, into the marketplace. and i don't think that we really foresaw kind of large scale retail like burger king, which i did not know about, using that as a model as well to kind of increase the number of locations that they may have here in the city. >> i very much appreciate that. to be clear, what we're voting today is currently right now -- [multiple voices]

>> i support that. >> there is a case to at least think about whether to go further, maybe in trailing legislation. >> thank you. >> yes. okay, thank you, ms. hayward. next, the youth commission which considered and endorsed the school buffer zone component. we have alan lu from the youth commission, also the vice-chair of the commission, nicholas persky. so, thank you for being here. >> hi, nicholas persky, the vice-chair of the youth commission. i have some memorandums from when we considered the legislation last april. i just wanted to express our gratitude for you guys referring the piece of legislation to the youth commission. and on april 16th of 2012, we passed a motion that supported this ordinance to amend public works code section 184.85. and we asked questions. i feel that we, you know, fully

vetted this legislation from the youth perspective. and we feel that this legislation helped strike a balance between two things, which is the sfusd's needs, which is to protect their school lunch program, but also to, you know, provide more opportunity for food truck owners and the food truck industry. and just speaking from the youth perspective, i personally don't leave my school, you know, to eat lunch, but youth are really, really motivated by food. and to the extent that, you know, it's 1500 feet or 500 feet or 1,000 feet, youth are willing to go, you know, pretty far just for food. so, i would definitely support this because, you know, youth are going to get food anyway. and, you know, we really -- at the same time simultaneously, we need to, you know, support food trucks. so, yeah. thank you. >> thank you. commissioner -- supervisor kim has a question for you, mr.

persky. >> thank you for being here. i appreciated your memo. i read it over the weekend. i agree with some of the thinking. you know, there' brick and mortar restaurants that may or may not sell healthy food less than 1500 feet from a school ~. and, so, it seems strange to single out food trucks from that legislatively. but i guess i like your thoughts on a thousand and 750 or the commissioner's thoughts on that. for me i have to be honest, i'd rather just have one footage from all high schools. and the reason why is for my time on the board, i know that there's a little bit of fluidity amongst our schools. schools change or open school policy, not every year, but i know changes happen. [speaker not understood] had an open campus, then it was closed campus. and i also know we often co-locate so size is a variable and we're okay being closer to

small schools than large schools. some of our small schools might grow or co-locate another school there. so, i'm just kind of curious with that, if you wanted that kind of level of detail. ~ went into efficient >> i'm not a planning expert. i'm a high cooler. [laughter] >> as far as the 750 foot, code stuff, that's not exactly, you know, my specialty. but i think i would just refer to what i said earlier. i mean, i think 750 would be okay because, i mean, youth don't really think about is it an extra 250 feet to go get food. they're just going to go get the food. that's just kind of what's on our mind. it's not really that much of an issue walking 250 feet. >> okay, thank you. >> perhaps supervisor kim gave a little background here. when i initially proposed legislation, it was 500 feet or one block across the board. and, so, when the youth

commission considered it, they considered the 500 feet. >> i see. >> and they endorsed the 500 feet. thereafter, we were negotiating with the school district and with the food and fitness committee and part of the negotiation we extended it. i would have been actually happy to keep it at 750 feet ~ across the board. but because the school district was very interested in a thousand feet for high schools, we compromised by saying a thousand feet, except for a few schools -- and it wasn't so much about whether they were a closed or open campus. as you know, that changes and different schools have different policies around who can go off campus or if everyone can go off campus. it was more about what the impact would be on the surrounding neighborhood if it it was a thousand or 750. o'connell, gally lay owe. [speaker not understood]. a thousand could cause more of

an issue there. so, that was really the thinking rather than who is open at this point in time or who has a closed campus at this point in time. but i would have been happy to have it at 750 for everyone. we were trying to be accommodating to the school district. >> my understanding from the school district is that their perspective is that the size of the school does matter. but i assume that they'll be coming up to present as well, so, i'll wait to ask. >> great. okay. so, next i'd like to call up regina [speaker not understood] from the small business commission. >> good afternoon, chair wiener. i want to thank supervisor wiener and his staff, an dress powers for the years, the couple of years that his staff has diligently worked on this and being very measured and thoughtful in working with the stakeholders to come up with, like you said, ~ a solution that not everybody is happy with, but that we all have come to an agreement with and really

want to extend my appreciation and the hard work that has been put into this. so, the small business commission did hear the legislation about the extending into the rh districts with the planning commission and did vote to support that and recommends that you support that. the commission has not yet -- the commission initially heard the first draft of the modifications in april. but since there has been since the changes that supervisor wiener outlined today, and they haven't heard it, but knowing that our office has been involved and that the key stakeholders have been consulted and worked with to finding a really good solution, i just want to know that our office does extend the support for this legislation. ~ note a couple of things in terms of

the school district if you do decide to have some discussion about the footage. i think from our perspective, we would go more towards leaning more towards the 750 foot as opposed to a thousand foot. with the understanding that there is other types of restaurants, there are corner stores that are within distance that sell some of the -- that sell the foods that are the concerns that i think have been expressed. and don't necessarily see that from our perspective, that the mobile foods would impede upon some of the goals that the school district has, but that is our perspective. so, i'm just here to make sure that -- encourage you to support the great work that supervisor wiener has done with this. it hasn't been easy. it's been very challenging, but i think that we can -- they're

great solutions and clean up that we've long been waiting for in accomplishing. >> thank you, ms. [speaker not understood]. and i want to echo -- thank my aide, andres power and julian gillette who was in my office. that's how long it's been going. next i want to ask chris armentraut from the san francisco unified school district to come up and say a few words. >> thank you, chairman wiener and supervisor kim, president chiu. my name is chris arm entrout. i am director for the san francisco unified he school district. i do want to emphasize and acknowledge, credit to supervisor wiener ~ and for i think your staff and you have been exemplary in terms of trying to work with us, coming at us in good faith and very

clear about what your needs are. and i do appreciate -- even though we weren't able to reach a very clear compromise, i do appreciate all the efforts and work that you did to do that in good faith. so, we are -- right now the board of education and superintendent has not taken a neutral position. we did consider this over the two years and we did formally consider this in february of this year. and we're actually quite close. if we look at this and break it down, we're pretty much in agreement of well more than 90% of what supervisor wiener has proposed. so, in term of the -- what the

current law was, beginning with middle schools, currently 1500 feet around each middle school, that's been proposed to be reduced to 500 and our board has agreed with that, mostly because the middle schools are going to be closed campus and are going to remain that way for any foreseeable future. so, that's about half of our secondary schools that are affected. the next list on here would be about half of our high schools, roughly half of our high schools that are listed there. the proposal is to reduce those to 1,000 feet and our board has also agreed in terms of that. the biggest difference is in terms of those schools that would be reduced to 750. and, so, for the seven of those in supervisor wiener's legislation -- ordinance, excuse me, hilltop, international state academy, the principal center, civic center, john o'connell, mission

high school, and gallileo, those are the seven in question. for those seven, the first four we are fine with 750 feet. we were agreed with those. it's for the last three, john o'connell, mission high school and gallileo, this is primarily because those schools have a large population, large relative to the other schools listed up there, and they've also had a history of challenges with participation in their lunch program, with students leaving for off campus. so, our board took the position that they wanted to not reduce that to 750, but allow a reduction to 1500 to 1,000. so, from looking up there in the aggregate, all the schools, all the high schools, and the section of one of the high schools there, that's about 92%, it's 35 out of 38 that we're okay with. it's just these last three on which we're split. and, so, right now our board does not support this legislation and has not taken a

neutral. we currently oppose it. and that was the formal action taken. i did want to add a note, supervisor wiener, we've had discussionses with you and your staff as well. our board did put requests that there be a clear map because there have been questions in the past about how these were drawn and whether you're drawing a square boundary around the schools or whether you had a circular from the very center. we reached some clarity with your office on that. we're clear it's the boundary from the school, but there is still the restriction -- there still is the request in order to be neutral to see a map. and, supervisor wiener, i know that we discussed about this and there's logistical problems with creating that, but that is still our board's position, i need to represent that. >> thank you. supervisor kim, just to clarify a few things, it's three schools where the district is in disagreement. >> that's correct. >> okay. and the district had raised i

think a question about whether the number of feet was measured from the entrance to the school or from the outer boundaries. and we clarified and it's in the legislation, it's measured from the external boundaries. >> yes. >> so, as far out as you can get and and not from the front entrance. and in terms of the map ~ i know the district had requested that there be a map created as an appendix to the legislation. i think we just felt that that was not something that we would typically do in our code. dpw felt it's measurements. i understand its desire for a map. anyone can create a map if you have the right geo coding. and, so, i think that's certainly helpful, but i just don't think that that's the legislation is the appropriate place to do that. but, supervisor kim? >> actually, you can -- >> president chiu. >> i just wonder if you could hear from the chair a little bit of back and forth on your

perspective about these three particular schools. i understand that, and i first of all want to thank all the stakeholders who have been engaged in this tier conversation. i appreciate the give and take of all sides. i certainly appreciate our chairman's work and his staff's work. it seems like we're really close, but particularly one of these high schools is right down the corner in my district and i just want to understand why you would want to keep the 750 and try to understand that from the perspective of the school district. >> sure. and like the other aspects of this legislation, what's before you today is definitely is a -- very much a middle ground, all sort of balanced on the head of the proverbial pin. when we initially proposed the 500 number of feet, typically 500 feet is one block. [speaker not understood]. the 500 feet, the school district after some discussion indicated they were fine with that for middle schools, but

preferred a larger distance for high schools, and that they preferred -- they wanted a thousand feet. and my response was that we're okay with that, except that there are a handful of schools where it does have a pretty significant impact. so, for example, if we applied a thousand feet for mission high school, it would -- everyone knows where mission high school is -- it goes basically almost all the way to valencia street along 18th street which is a pretty thriving commercial corridor. it goes west almost to noe street, and basically into the heart of the castro. so, it's a pretty significant impact. keeping in mind that there is a food truck, i believe seven days a week, in dolores park basically less than 500 feet from mission high school. for o'connell, has a pretty significant impact.

a thousand feet would include some significant swaths of bryant street, of south van ness, and gallileo a thousand feet would stretch onto franklin and lombard and hyde, i think also parts of van ness, chestnut and polk street. so, we tried to be very discerning in terms of which high schools we thought a thousand went a little bit too far. you can see from that list, the bulk of the high schools it's a thousand feet. and for a number of the high schools the district did not object to the 750 feet. i completely understand the desire, but i think on balance this is still a block and a half in every -- in every direction. so, that was the thing. i would also note, i forgot to mention before, in my discussions with the food and

fitness council in particular, one of the issues that they raised is that in some schools, the school that you don't have enough capacity to serve enough school lunches given the size of the student body, and that they -- there was a desire to have school lunch vending machines that sell the identical lunches, but that increase capacity. and, so, that is part of the budget last year. i was able to obtain an allotment from the city to allow the district to purchase four of though vending machines to address that issue. i know you're in the procurement process now. so, i definitely tried to put my money where my mouth is in terms of supporting the school lunch program. so, that's the background, president chiu. supervisor kim? >> thank you. actually, it would be helpful for me to see the map just to get a sense of what we're talking about because for me 750 and a thousand, kind of like we're splitting hairs. if i could see a map to have an

understanding, i could understand what the impact is either way. i'm not sure i have a strong feeling about either number, but not being able to see what the impact is, i'm not sure i could make a decision. but i did want to ask -- did the board officially take a position via a resolution or is this an informal discussion? >> the board considers it at rules committee. >> okay. >> with the understanding that they were speaking on behalf of the board at that meeting. >> okay. and their position that this is the third column was the position that they took? >> essentially, yes. >> okay. and could you -- you know, honestly as a policy maker, i prefer one, one footage distance for all high schools. i just feel like there's fluidity amongst our schools and there are changes that happen, exactly what i explained before. co-location, kind of changes in open, closed campus policies. i know that wasn't one of the driving factors in the end, but i guess i'm having a hard time understanding the distinction between these seven schools and the other schools.

for the school district, i get it for the planning department in terms of the planning code kind of restriction in the area. but i guess for the school district, i'm curious as to why hilltop, principal center and civic center is okay. i don't understand why a smaller school population would matter in terms of the overall policy around healthier food. do you understand -- >> sure. >> we care about we care about nutrition, we don't care about the smaller schools. i'm curious about the logic for that. >> first let me be clear. we don't careless about our hilltop students, they're all our children equally. we want to make sure they're eating healthy. the other great thing supervisor wiener was great to provide, we don't want class conflict, other issues. i believe partly in was in the spirit of compromise to, to recollect some schools.

the other issue is -- there are two counties schools. there are tougher restrictions on the movement -- in terms of -- excuse me, i don't mean tougher. i mean the movement is somewhat very, very different from the way that a comprehensive high school would work. ~ reckon so, for example, if we take civic center high school where the students come and go throughout the day, it's a little bit tougher to control that or keep it under any guidelines it terms of their movement and the way they would move across the city. ~ in terms in terms of priority and the actual dynamic of what's happening at those campuses, it was less urgent at those sites than it was at the three comprehensive with larger student population. from a more practical standpoint more students affected. and also a past history of what we've seen in the past. president chiu, you brought the case of gallileo, that was the

impetus for what happened with the food truck legislation in the first place. it was vendors were right outside the campus. >> i remember that. >> yeah, you remember that, supervisor kim. so, that was really -- so, i'm not sure if i explained -- captured your opposition well. that was really the impetus, distinguishing between those four and those three. >> three of these schools i understand are county schools, principal center is county school, hilltop principal center and civic center. >> correct. >> you're saying you feel like you have more control over the in and out fluidity of students at these three sites? >> actually we have less control -- >> you want a greater buffer, then, for the students? ~ don't you want a greater buffer, then, for the students? >> i believe there is the understanding or the sense that it was really kind of a moot point given the way that those students move and their dynamics and to try to restrict them from a food truck being outside civic center, when the

students are doing a job across town, coming in for a single class, just from a practical standpoint wasn't as big a priority. >> okay. do you think there is a real distinction for high school students from 750 and a thousand? do you think that will really impact a student's ability to get or not get food from a food truck? >> our position on the board is yes. ~ that it is. the challenge is we don't have data on this. but our position was that reducing it from 1500, cutting that radius in half would be a tipping point. but it's hard -- without empirical data it's hard for me to answer that question, but it's more just a concern. >> and in terms is 750 feet half a block? >> yes. in talking with i believe it was commissioner wynn's about some of the thinking when this was first adopted, 1500 feet, was having students cross two streets.

750 versus a thousand in terms of the number of streets to be crossed, it would still likely be one street. it's different on average, 1-1/2 blocks and two blocks. personally, i don't think that that makes a big difference as commissioner persky indicated if a student wants to go to a food truck, whether it's a block and a half or two blocks. it could make a difference in terms of ability of food trucks to be in particular neighborhoods that happen to have those high schools nearby. we know that mission and o'connell and gallileo happen to be in some pretty heavy duty, high pedestrian foot traffic, busy commercial districts. >> and my last question, civic center used to be an elementary school. so, is it reverted back -- which i don't think it would. if it reverted back to elementary school, would planning code understand that change and have no buffer zone?

>> it's only -- it's a public works code. only indicates high schools and middle schools. so, we'll go and double-check that language, but i think it would be pretty clear that if something became an elementary school, it would fall outside the scope of the legislation because we've never had a buffer around elementary schools. >> okay. the legislation specifically calls out civic center high school assessor block and a lot number. so, it may be that -- i just want to know that there is some level of flexibility because there are changes within the school district map. and, so, i'd hate to amend the legislation every time there is a change. >> and i will also say that we in our lengthy discussion with the district and others, we had considered at one point, well, should we distinguish among schools based on whether they're closed campus or open. maybe closed high school campuses should be treated like middle schools which are closed and we decided in the end that

given that it's up to the school community, i believe, and the principal whether that school will be closed, open, or partially open, we didn't feel it was appropriate. so, we did abide, really by location and what the impact or lack thereof is on the surrounding commercial district. >> mr. chair, is there a map that we could look at to understand what that extra half block is going to add -- [multiple voices] >> we don't have a map of the 750 versus a thousand. we do have a quite large map with a 1500 feet that was very labor intensive project with department of public works early on. i know the district considered doing its own map, but i don't think that that happened. >> we don't have a map to show you. >> because one thing i'd like to ask during public comment if folk have perspectives on this issue, you can explain it during public comment, it would be helpful to hear. >> thank you. thank you, mr. armentraut, much appreciated.

okay, next i want to call up the three organizations i think really led in the negotiations, and that's rob black from the golden gate restaurant association, matt cohen from off the grid, and then john boseman from building managers association. ken was the lead on this, but had it a family situation and had to go back east out of town. mr. black. >> good afternoon, s.p.r.x, it's a pleasure to be here. rob black executive director for the golden gate restaurant association. we represent a little over a thousand member locations of restaurants throughout the bay area ~. but we also have good number of food trucks that we represent as well. so, we're one of those entities that are looking at both sides of this issue. i will say it has been an interesting couple of years in conversation, but i think what -- to me what really captures what we've been trying to

achieve, i think everybody at the table, is that idea you don't want to compromise your principles, but you should not be afraid of a principled compromise. and i think that is harp we have come to with this piece of legislation. everybody has given some and taken some. what it really i think attempts to do is address some of the failings of the previous legislation. a big part of that from i think a mobile food truck side, and frankly from a brick and mortar side or property owner side, is the insecurity of how the previous legislation or the current legislation treats people who participate in the regulatory process. the time and expense of going through challenge over challenge has been really difficult for i think people who are trying to start up a food truck. it's been stressful for those folks who might have a brick and mortar that are initiating

challenges to permit. so, i think what this legislation does is or will do would provide a clearer path to all sides about what is allowed and where, really trying to understand how impacts pedestrian traffic, how it impacts our streets. and really striking that balance. we do have one of the most dynamic, if not the most dynamic food season in the country, and part of really integral part of that is what happens on the street. and, so, allowing for those entrepreneurs, expanding though spaces with the college and hospital campuses, looking at the impactses at the 1500 foot been has had around the schools and reducing those impacts, create more opportunities, where appropriate, ~ for this type of activity. on the flip side, we want to make sure that where a truck is located is, again, appropriate for the space. is