market [speaker not understood]. if you notice 19th are avenue are double fines for moving violation, it's because everybody speed on 19th avenue. i see so many accidents in my life on 19th avenue. i've seen so many people get hit by a car. we'd like to see the situation on 19ing avenue and lincoln if we have a back up [speaker not understood] people get upset and get angry and speed through that area. i think that's it. thank you. >> thank you. let me call a few more names f. your name has already been called, please approach the podium. ~ christin flokin. [speaker not understood] yip. hugo cerna. hello, my name is [speaker not understood] and i'm a fifth generation san franciscan which i believe at this point makes me entitled and selfish. and, so, i am going to suggest that you vote against this

project. along with being a fifth generation san franciscan, i've lived in the inner sunset for 22 years now. i live about two blocks away from the proposed new car wash. and i'd just like to raise a combination of concerns and issues that i have thought about in the last month since i heard about this project. on weekends, the traffic there is impossible. i've spent an hour going three blocks from ortega up to lincoln. and getting further along is even worse. [speaker not understood] avenue seems to be the place at which the traffic really begins [speaker not understood]. also i'm noticing sick months ago no tour buses. now i see triple deck tour buses and other drawingses on the side which is great for the city, but it really adds to the traffic. ~ and they're going through golden gate park. sometimes they stop right at

19th and lincoln. i also -- i have some questions about the design of the actual station. so, it seems to me that the only route that you can take into the gas station is via 19th avenue. lincoln, if you try to turn on lincoln before 19th avenue, it could be a nightmare. you would back up traffic for blocks. i'm envisiontion cars can only go in 19th avenue which means they can only pull in at that point. how are they going to wash their car? ~ it was raised earlier, how do you maneuver that? do you have to make a circle and go back? what if you decide to just wash your car as opposed to getting gas? the back up, even the procedure you have to go inside to pay, these are issues that can really make things a little nuts.

also, i guess drying the car is part of the issue. parking, if you're just going to go into the store, these are used a lot now for convenience foods. i work with childhood obesity, so, i'm not for that. [speaker not understood]. anyway, there's more parking space. how is that going to work? so, anyway, though i appreciate an individual's right to make money and profit, i really don't see the purpose of that when it comes to the increased stress and parking and driving situation of a city that's already [speaker not understood]. thank you. >> thank you. hello, commissioners. thank you for listening. i'm judy tomsik. i'm ax resident of 26th avenue, but you can also find me on the corner of 19th and lincoln waiting for a bus. ~

last semi donated my car to charity and became one of those bmw types, bike, muni or walk. and i made that sacrifice as a good citizen, reducing my carbon footprint as san francisco's always promoting. and now i need to make this work. i need you to uphold a couple of things and that's our transit first policy. and also to promote pedestrian safety by voting to limit the scope of this project. to uphold the policy of transit first, you can't approve a project with any possibility of decreasing muni's already slow average speed of 8 miles per hour. i had to laugh when i saw one of the sponsor's reports with a picture showing two muni buses blocking the driveway to the station. it would not have been funny had it depicted the likely reverse scenario of a line of cars blocking muni's approach to the stop. i believe the car wash will be popular as there are many renters in the sunset who don't

have garages and park outside where leaves, pollen and ocean air wreak havoc on their cars. [speaker not understood] you can't approve this project in its current form because it creates dangerous situations where distracted drivers [speaker not understood]. [speaker not understood] and could become even more so if the irving street stop one block away is removed, as was suggested in the tep proposal you heard about earlier. i guarantee you some of those passenger waiting will want to fill that time with a quick run to the store and they deserve to have clear open sidewalks with a safe pathway to their purchase. the summer months are especially prone to busy pedestrian traffic at this intersection. from may to october, nearly every weekend golden gate park is a destination for throngs of

concert and event participants, many of whom commute on transit from the suburbs. being unfamiliar with their surroundings, they will be especially vulnerable to getting hit as we rush into the store in their tank tops and flip-flops to search for something warm to drink and wear. though i'm not oppose the to the concept of store station gas/car wash combo, [speaker not understood]. please vote to reduce the size of this project. thank you. >> thank you. hi, good afternoon, planning commission. my name is nancy yip. i'm a neighbor who lives close to the gas station and [speaker not understood] build the car wash and the gas station. my top reasons are [speaker not

understood], pollution, and decrease our property value. third of all, noise from 19th avenue and lincoln way have caused a big problem from our daily lives already. we can't rest and sleep well every day. if they build car wash and the gas station, the problem gets even worse. secondly, i don't want -- i don't know what type of code they use to clean the car and how they store the water. we have seniors who live in the same neighborhood and [speaker not understood]. get this only for car wash and a big convenience store directly into our property value, behind the gas station, especially if it's the last [speaker not understood]. therefore i strongly disagree with this project. thank you. >> thank you. let me call a few more name. [speaker not understood].

katia n. lou. and xhi [speaker not understood]. good afternoon. i live on 19th avenue, i came to support this project with the car wash. we don't have too many car washes in the city and we always go to car wash, we stay in the line. i came here to support this project. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. in the microphone, please. [speaker not understood]. thank you. >> thank you. is there any further public comment on this item? good afternoon,

commissioners. yeah, i [speaker not understood] personal business around the area. i've been using that gas station 14 years more or less. i'm glad that somebody came up with the [speaker not understood] idea about, you know, building a car wash there. normally that saves a lot of time, personally for me. i don't have time to be washing my car by hand and [speaker not understood] five minutes, whatever. i'm here just to support the project. thank you. >> thank you. next speaker, please. please keep your comments consistent with the gas station. [inaudible]. so, this information is about the purchase of my gas card. when with i do [speaker not understood] my identification i show my identification. i was with present at 19th

avenue and i did speak to some of the gas stations because i know this gas station is one of the particular gas stations that is close by. however, significantly, i was interested for safety. when we were putting our money down at the gas station, i did notice in the area that like two or three pedestrians like left money there particularly in front of the counter. and sometimes [speaker not understood] we're talking about leaving our money there and someone didn't have transit fare or whatever have you. this person took the money. i just think the safety i'm glad they renew the gas stations and what is significant. when i spend money i want to make sure the money is going in the correct professional manner. the financial statement i just wanted to submit inquiries to mr. dill for the shell station as well as other gas stations, too, the financial statement

was 96.5 63 and that's a billion dollar note. that's a renewal application and something for financial business literacy for my application at this time. i want to be basic and bland about the safety and procurement and when we diversify information on television. so, be voiceful. when i'm purchasing gas cards and i want to have gas cards and members and employees for my preference, i would like to retain gas cards at a substantial amount. if i'm driving i want to have more than just my gas card money. i want money where i can swipe my card there. don't ask for so much from the cash registry. they have the visa or the mastercard. it makes it a little more simpler because i have an application for american express and i couldn't use the card at another gas station. i said, let me go to shell. you can be all the way in

[speaker not understood] driving and it's inconvenience and this was a 76 station, not shell. but he was very difficult verseful. he took the money off the card. taking the money off the card. ~ diverseful. be voiceful. i need money from shell as well as other gas stations and i will recipient that [speaker not understood]. i'm finished. >> is there any further public comment on this item? seeing none, public comment is closed. commissioner antonini. >> thank you. well, this is an issue that there's been a lot of comment on and i can kind of reflect upon my experience with this type of car wash. we only have i believe only one other one in san francisco of this nature. there may be another one they spoke about, the one at mission and san jose avenue. but i have frequently used on some occasions, one out in the

east bay at the intersection of 680 and 580 which is a pretty busy place. hop yard road is there also, a major artery between [speaker not understood] has yen da business park. ~ hasienda [speaker not understood], everybody driesv. my experience is whenever i go there to get the car wash, i'm the first one there. ~ there is nobody waiting for the car wash. maybe they have some other somewhere in the valley. i don't know of any. i don't see there being a huge demand for car wash at this place. there will be some people that will go there, but i don't see it being an issue. i do see the possibility of parking for the convenience store and some speakers have brought that up. it's hard to really conjecture on how many people may pull in to use the convenience store because of its visibility and

its size. and i'll see what the other commissioners have to say. i'm generally in favor of the proposal as it's built now. i have a few more comments on that, though. there was some, a couple of commenters talked about the merchants along irving street west of 19th, 19th and 26th and there may be some convenience stores there. i mean, they're hard to identify. you think their specialty food stores, they may have some convenience items. it's really hard to get through that area during the day. there's always a lot of cars that are halfway stopped and parking is difficult and i'm not sure that any of their, you know, customers, if they do lose customers, it may be for other reasons for convenience items other than this place being there. and as been pointed out, we're losing gas stations and it's

not really practical to have service bays any more because so many cars, you need computerized service facilities to be able to work on them. so, that's a good point. the other thing about this particular car wash is it would be open 7:00 to 10:00. so, you can use it in hours even when the sun is not shining. you can go in there, find your way home from work. so, it makes it a more a practicetive option. it's probably the hand wash is the best wash you can get, but it's more time consuming. it takes quite a while to go out to daly city or go to the one that's on bell and da difficulties dare owe. part of it washed mechanically, the rest is done manually. oftentimes you don't have the time to go in there and read a magazine and wait for 20 minutes while your car is getting washed in one of the hand operated ones. so, this will serve a good

purpose. i have a question for project sponsor about the noise. you said it was not greater than the ambient noise. is that correct? >> that is correct. >> one speaker said, well, it's not 55 decibels which is voice level in a quiet room and 65, she said, is very loud. but the important point is that you're not creating noise more than what's already there. >> we're going to create length to not exacerbate the noise level by putting in sound screen walls, by putting in green walls, and by making the tunnels deeper and nestling the equipment deeper into the car wash assembly. >> that's the other question i have is in regards to the parking for the convenience store. it was presented, i guess, that there would be one parking place and one handicap parking place, a total of two. is that correct? >> we had -- we originally had

four parking spaces and a misunderstanding with the planning department, with the planning department that we needed to screen our parking spaces. we took out the two front parking spaces because we felt we couldn't put them in the front area. we were disabused of that mistake. so, we'd like to offer and i think the planning department doesn't have any objection to -- with our two parking spaces back in front. we'll still screen it within the directive permit of the landscaping. you'll get an extra couple of parking spaces. >> so, you'll end up with a total of 4, then. >> okay. that would be something i would like to see that because that would er the concern about not enough parking and that would eliminate. i don't think you're going to get a lot of viewing. you can allow for how many cars beforehand they go into the wash off-street? >> i'd like to ask matt, our traffic engineer.

>> sure, he can answer that, whoever is -- >> hi, matt [speaker not understood]. so, there would be room for 5 to 7 just within the area itself within the queuing area itself for the car wash. and then if, if somehow that additional cars did come, then they would start queuing back into the the front of the convenience store. >> in other words, in the queuing area, you can have depending on the size of the car, 5 to 7, no less than 5. and there's still room that they could queue up in front of the convenience store, but they wouldn't be out on the street; is that correct? >> that's correct. and if there were -- if there were a cume issue, that's where the no abatement policy would come into effect and mitigation measures put in place. >> i would think so, we would

want to have a situation where someone would be directing the traffic or something like that, pull the cars into one of the parking spaces or something so they weren't on the street or blocking a driveway, blocking a bus lane. if that's important, i would like to see that as part of the approval. as much as they do on trader joe's at masonic where they have a back up off of there. they don't have anywhere near the kind of room you have for cars to be lined up. but they do have attendance to get [speaker not understood]. >> okay. >> so, that sounds reasonable in your agreement, we could end up with an approval for four parking spaces for the convenience store? >> i'll turn to planning, but from our perspective, we're prepared to do whatever we need to to screen the parking spaces properly. >> planning, did you want to

comment on that? >> yeah, i'd just like to confirm that as the existing service station right now has approximately nine questions including some that are dedicated for car share services should the commission want the project sponsor to add those two additional spaces as long as the project sponsor said [speaker not understood]. >> that makes sense. i'll see what the other commissioners say. i think that would be a good compromise. you could do that without diminishing the size of your convenience store apparently. okay. >> commissioner borden. >> yeah, i think what's regrettable here is the breakdown twenty the two sides. they don't seem to be able to work together or trust and that's really unfortunate because obviously we want to -- use is changing in the neighborhood. people can dialogue with each other and find common ground if there is, indeed, common ground.

in terms of this site, i guess i just don't understand i used to live with erin don. that's very highly congested and trafficked area as it is. i don't understand how the noise from the car wash would be significantly higher. i looked up the decibel level. it's 60 decibels is about the level of regular conversation and you get traffic and noise and i looked it up at national institutes whatever the sound industry decibel level. the levels are pretty high because of 19th avenue having a lot of traffic congestion on it. the interesting thing, we already know san francisco has some of the most expensive gas in the area. we do have a declining number of gas stations. car washes are not plentiful. i have seen car washes on geary and [speaker not understood] on the weekend because there are

not many car washes in the city. that's a problem. i also happen to know there is no margin off gas. i have a friend who works for sec ron and cells lobby for alcohol and stores in other municipalities. station p raters don't make any money off the gas. it is a reality till we abolish cars, that we need gas stations and because of the way and the nature of that business has changed, there aren't a lot of revenue sources for profitability. the gas station owner has committed they're not going to sell alcohol. our proposal would not allow that, if there is only one parcel space, then the only people who would buy stuff at the convenience store because it wouldn't really be convenience to go to the

convenience store. [speaker not understood]. there's one handicapped space and one regular parking space and that space ask often used by people coming out of the car wash drying off their car. ~ is often used i don't see it impacting local businesses there especially since a lot of times with 19th avenue, it's people who are driving. they notice they need gas, they'll stop and go to the gas station. i don't know that there's going to be -- maybe there will be some that will go just for the car wash. but the speed at which people go down 19th avenue is not like you're going to stop and get a car wash -- it's not that kind of road, so, i don't see what -- i understand that, you know, [speaker not understood], but i don't see how this intensification the neighborhood negatively. i'm in support of the project. i'm sorry that the community

couldn't come together with the sponsor around it. for the need of car washes in the city, using existing station, improving upon it to make it more of a neighborhood asset would actually be a good thing. >> commissioner wu. >> thank you. i'm supportive of the project. i do want to ask the project sponsor in the case there are 10 or more cars, what management techniques can you have, do you have to alleviate that position? >> they're actually the ones that help customers, make sure they're having a good day. when we have a convenience, two or three people there that give us the flexibility to accepted somebody out to help direct traffic. what they'll do then is say car washes are always good for 7 to 10 days. if a customer does decide, they

can either get a refund if they don't want to wait in the queue or they can come back at a later time. so, the convenience piece helps us have the staff on-site to manage those issues. >> okay, thank you. >> can i ask a follow-up question, just curious. is there technology to stop the sale of the car wash if there are more than seven in the queue? >> no, currently there is no technology for that which is why we offer the full refund if somebody does buy a car wash and turn and see that the line is too long and they don't want to wait, they can't refund. >> curious. thank you. commissioner moore. commissioner sugaya. >> i want to do a quick follow-up. along that line, do you have to buy gas in order to get a car wash? >> you do not, but most people [speaker not understood] the pricing. >> commissioner moore. >> since we are adjacent to a residential neighborhood which is actually close by, i would say the car wash hours should

be restricted to 9:00 p.m. the machine goes on and off, the machine does not run constantly. the machine goes on when the car pulls over that threshold where you turnoff your motor and you put your car. the acceleration of noise from zero to something is actually quite noticeable. and i could have pair that to a similar situation actually in sausalito. [speaker not understood]. there is a driveway separating the residential from the car wash itself. and i also find the kicking in of the whole motor annoying. and i can see that, which is really a quiet residential area given it's nice traffic calms down on lincoln road. there is more ambient quietness

right at the edge of this residential. the reason i'm saying it is it is a coincidence. i have a friend who lives on 1th and lincoln, she's from new york. i realized oh, it's similar and it's right in the backyard. she didn't know this would be on the agenda, but i happened to kind of realize how compact this really really is. i would be comfortable supporting it because i do see the needs [speaker not understood] but i would like to minimize direct impact on the residential limiting evening hours for the car wash, specifically to the car wash to no later than 9:00. >> is that a motion? >> yes. >> are you adding [speaker not understood]? >> i'm not for sure.

i think the department [speaker not understood] i do not really see a comfortable space or two spaces. the 60 degree angle of parking, one into the buffer which i think planning reserved for this. i would be comfortable having a pale legal space. >> [speaker not understood]? >> it would only be one space, only just one space and that particular space. i would see one additional space. the way i use these gas stations, which i do, many people, while they're gassing their car up, run into the convenience store, they grab what they want. they're in and out. i don't think we necessarily need to add two spaces. >> commissioner hillis.

>> was that a motion? >> i tried to, yes. >> i'll second that motion. i'm supportive. those are the two issues that resonated with me, were the hours and attending a little late and adding some additional parking for that convenience store although i think some people will be, you said, getting gas >> commissioner antonini. >> yeah, a couple questions for project sponsor. there was commentary about access and the speaker was saying only off 19. one would assume you could access the station by lincoln going eastbound, and i would think -- and you also could exit that way, too. >> that is correct. >> so, basically my understanding is there would be

two areas of egress and ingress. either 19th northbound or lincoln eastbound. >> that is correct. >> because obviously you can't make a left turnoff of 19th and you can't make it off of lincoln either going westbound. so that would be the way it would be handled. >> you're correct. >> and then for staff, on the issue of parking places, are you in agreement we could add two more places without causing a problem there? >> the department would need to work with the architect to determine whether parking spaces can be accommodated without impacting the queue for the project. i mean, i think we definitely would be able to get in one more additional parking space adjacent to the currently proposed spaces. if the commission decides, you know, it wants a total of four parking spaces, that would have to be designed with the architect. >> for the maker of the motion, co