city, we would have some role [speaker not understood]. typically dpw will get sort of individual permits or proposals from departments about streetscape design and make a determination about whether it warrants coming to the planning department or not and we're obviously not reviewing every parking meter or traffic pole or whatnot that comes. so, we're not seeing everything and dpw will sort of look at what types of things will rise to that level. sometimes, you know, we might, we might look at the overall program and say within these parameters it's okay, we don't need to review every single one. i know with the at&t boxes, there's sort of a need for an additional level of review and i know that my director and dpw director are going to be meeting about that i think next week to sort of figure out a more involved process for -- specifically further utility boxes. >> i'm glad to hear that. was the mta involved with the

design decisions around the muni bus shelters, particularly, you know, given how narrow some of the walkways, some of the sidewalks are? >> yeah, i believe that's the case where we did a sort of blanket general plan referral. i'm not exactly sure actually. [inaudible]. is that the review we did for -- >> yes, gail for the mta thev planning did both a c-e-q-a approval for the replacement shelters and for the new locations. ~ >> okay. i guess my question for mr. barrett goes beyond that. i mean, it would seem -- yeah, i'd like to understand because again, i just saw on some of the photos we saw earlier, it's in some situations it's very

quite dramatic where literally people have to walk single file to get past these bus shelters because they're so wide. advertising is a source of revenue for muni. these are complicated policy questions, but it would seem to me in that kind of situation the planning department should be involved in terms of ensuring that the better streets plan is being taken into account. and i guess the same with the decisions around where the newsracks are being placed in terms of just the sheer numbers. >> yeah, and i know we've also looked at some of the locations for the specific operator rest rooms, muni operator rest rooms and requested changes on certain ones of those as part of the general plan review. so, i can find out more about that in terms of shelters. >> okay, thank you, mr. barrett. okay. so, next we're going to have

john kwong from the department of public works. >> good afternoon, supervisors. john kwong from the department of public works street use and mapping. if you can go to the overhead. thank you. in many ways i'm going to repeat some of the exact verbiage that my can colleague mr. barrett from the planning department has stated. 9 department of public works processes and reviews a variety of requests to place facilities in the public right-of-way. ~ the specifically service facilities in these kind of cases. the department much like planning identify the sidewalk into three separate zones. the curb zone.

as you can see where typically hydrants are placed, "street signs", parking meters, trees, bicycle racks, utility boxes including water meters and sewer main covers to buildings in those cases. we have the pedestrian zone where majority of pedestrians will walk in that area and the building zone. the building zone typically is a location where property owners might have a step encroachment, they might have landscaping, you have commercial elements much like cafe tables and chairs, display merchandise variety of other uses along the public right-of-way. ~ under the three major categories as suggested by the supervisor here, the department also handles three major categories. one is -- two of them are contracts with [speaker not understood] for the operation of maintenance of both public toilets and kiosks. the second one is the

clearchannel for the newsrack program. and those are bocontract items, contracts with those companies that runs for many more years to come. the last one, the department process is what we call service facilities, above ground facilities that we oversee and we manage review. we manage review regulating, we make approvals as appropriate. these are typically as described previously. yes, sir. >> on the jc de co kiosks which i think are part of the bathroom contracts, those kiosks, how tall are they, 20 feet tall or something like that? >> they vary i believe between 14 to 20 feet tile, somewhere in that neighborhood. >> why are they so tall? i mean, they're huge around the base, but they're also -- they go up very high and they have some visibility impacts and so, like, why are they so tall?

>> one thing to recognize, at the time when the previous board approved the concept, what happened was these kiosks went through a review process, including the art commission for review and it was decided that that was an appropriate size. >> my sense is that they're that tall because it makes it a bigger bill board for the advertising, which is huge ad. do you know if that was part of the decision-making process? >> actually, the contract was signed before i came on board with dpw. so, there was a policy question and concept behind it which i cannot speak to. >> okay. i know some of the kiosks are used in terms of whether it's newspaper sales or just -- i think it's a flower shop in it, but sometimes they just seem to be a little taller than necessary for those purposes. and i assume that's for the size of the advertising. that's a comment.

>> that's not something i can speak to. >> and in terms of the clearchannel news racks, recognizing i think everyone agrees they are -- first of all, let me say it's very important to have newsracks. i know there's been concern at this hearing, some folks in the newspaper industry were trying to get rid of newsracks. no one i know of is trying to get rid of newsracks and i personally think that these clearchannel newsrack pedi mounts are a huge improvement to the old kind of newsracks which were ugly, sometimes badly vandalized, fall over. some of them were just falling apart. so, these are -- i have some areas in my district where i would like to get the clearchannel pedi-mount to replace some of the old news racks. some term of the concentration i gave, because i know in my district, 18th and kass strobe, having 7 of them in one

intersection with almost -- spaces for almost 50 newspapers when most of those are typically empty, what is the thinking in terms of how to distribute them so you have enough for what the newspaper needs are, but not dramatically more than you need, recognizing that they do take up quite a bit of sidewalk space? >> thank you, supervisors. john kwong once again. we have to recognize first the clearchannel contract program initiated back in 2002, okay. so, that was pretty much before really the advent of a lot of the digital press that came along. so, at that point there was a lot of newspapers buying a whole lot of spaces. what happens is as we establish corridors, if you don't have a box, you're if you're not occupying a space, you're not allowed. there were a lot of people that wanted a lot of boxes. over time business plans change.

as we progress, people using [speaker not understood] to get the information, newspaper agencies and delete the newspaper starts to decreasing. under the contract, the departments are allow today remove 2% of the total news racks out there at any one year. so, it translates to approximately six racks, yeah, six free-standing racks, sick standing racks a year. so, we're looking at in order to remove that number, evaluate [speaker not understood] everything else. as we continue to move forward today, however, okay, we do evaluate because right now we have three zones -- two zones in the sunset, one in richmond as we continue to move forward to install these newsrack zones, we continue to evaluate and reevaluate to make sure we don't put an excessive number of these newsracks in there. >> in addition to the annual

reduction of up to 2%, how about a redistribution? in other words, does the space over here in the sunset or different part of my district, supervisor kim's district, that maybe could use one and there are too many in this other area, so, not eliminating, but redistributing it. does the department have the flexibility to do that? >> the department -- the department can reallocate -- you know, again, knowing with all the green boxes available, we can't reallocate, but we cannot literally take one newsrack from one location and move this newsrack to another area. >> why not? >> that's not allowed under the contract. >> so if there are too many in one area and nothing under another area, under the contract you can't say we're going to take-two of these and move them over to this other area? >> what happens is the department needs to create a new pedestrian zone in these kind of cases. with the creative zone so we can put these freestanding newsracks there and direct

newspapers to remove the free standing ones. so, there's a process that we're obligated to follow by law. >> i'm sorry. >> supervisor kim. >> i'm sorry. i didn't hear the word, what kind of zone? >> pedestrian mount zones. where we put up these freestanding from clearchannel, we establish the zone. ~ ped zone >> all the freestanding newsracks must be removed in that area. ~ >> similar to [speaker not understood] kiosk, my sense is that because there's advertise iting on these newsracks that sometimes there is an incentive to want to have more in a certain area. so, going back to 18th and castro, it's a very, very, very high pedestrian and muni traffic zone. and, so, even though 7 newsracks, 7pedi-mounts is highly excessive for that intersection, creates a lot of advertising space.

so, i would really encourage dpw to be proactive about trying to do redistribution when there is over concentration in certain areas. >> obviously, commissioner -- supervisor. it's working within the confines. we have to work dill gently to make sure we work appropriately to have these newsracks removed accordingly. [speaker not understood]. the third item again is the surface mounted facilities. these are typically facilities installed by mta for the traffic controller boxes. at&t for the [speaker not understood] they put in. puc have at various times controller boxes being put in the public right-of-way. and finally pg&e is [speaker not understood] programmed to put certain above ground facilities to monitor the essential equipment as they continue to move forward. >> supervisor kim. >> thank you. and i had a question on these.

i just want to rejog my memory on this. i remember with at&t boxes there was a discussion about which public sidewalks. is it the case there were a number of these companies that they have to privately negotiate with private landlords versus the city for the use of that right-of-way? >> under the director's order that was signed by then director of public works ed lee who is now the mayor, the requirement is very specific that first every agency that wants to place these facilities must first see whether it can be put on private property. obviously they have to reach out to make a determination or provide information to the department of [speaker not understood] intent. once that happens, then there is a process they need to follow to answer the department's requirement as established under the order. >> so, they first -- the first request is that they look at

private properties and then when they can't do that, they come to the city with a list of the sites that they're looking for on our public right-of-way? >> the first request -- i should say you are correct, they have to look at -- try to find at least three property owners in the immediate area to see if they can put on private property. and once that -- you know, [speaker not understood]. once that happens, then they could evaluate and determine where they would like to place it in the public right of way. >> okay, thank you. >> regarding the at&t boxes, you know, at the time that we environmentally cleared the project, i and i know president chiu's office was involved to -- we worked with dpw and with at&t to come up with sort of an understanding about the process for siting the boxes in terms of working with neighbors, trying -- attempting to find

locations that were workable for the neighborhood and working with the planning department to make sure that we are taking into account the better streets plan. i was glad to hear from mr. barrett that mr. ram and mr. [speaker not understood] were going to be meeting next week to discuss the process. and i just really, really want to encourage the department to keep the planning department close here to make sure that this process takes into account the better streets plan. >> i will definitely endeavor to do so. >> thank you. >> president chiu. >> i want to echo what chair wiener said. i have a lot of constiff went with questions around what the process was supposed to be. as somebody who didn't support the decision of the board to allow for the installations, we understood there was going to be a very clear process. i think at the moment we probably need a little bit more clarity and public education on what that process is supposed to be. so, i would certainly appreciate after the meeting that happens internally with city staff that you could reach out to supervisors and just let us know from the city

standpoint how you're planning to deal with this so we can properly communicate that to our constituents as well. >> yes, sir. >> thanks. >> [speaker not understood]. i'm here to answer any questions. >> thank you, mr. kwong. finally we're going hear from the mta regarding bus shelters, operator rest rooms and traffic control boxes. mr. [speaker not understood]. >> good afternoon, director, supervisors. my name is [speaker not understood], i'm the deputy director for planning for mta. i'm just going to open it by -- i'll let you have the floor. [laughter] >> very popular. >> i'm going to talk about how the agency has been working closely with the other departments with the better streets plan. as you know, when the better streets plan was a doddthv there were elements in there about how the sidewalks would be furnished, would be developed including furnishing, et cetera. we've been working quite closely with different

departments. i can tell you that there's many projects we're working on that are taking be only the [speaker not understood] starting to implement them and include them. projects starting from the church duboce project, the project now we're doing in south of market that we're designing right now. they're looking at not just sidewalk, but pedestrian safety element as well. so, we're kind of putting those in. we're specifically going to hear from some of our project managers who are working on the specific elements on the sidewalks from the shelters themselves to the operator rest rooms and trying to integrate those into the neighborhood and the limited sidewalk space that's available there. and then also from our traffic calming program, the latest updates on that and how we're trying to move forward. so, with that i'm going to ask the three project managers to come up and speak. >> before we get to the project managers, i just want to ask you about how mta approaches overall planning for its placement of items on

sidewalks. and i think it's a broader mta policy issue. i don't want to pick on the project managers. they all do a very good job in terms of formulating and managing at least functions and providing critical functions like traffic control devices and bus shelters. >> right. >> how does mta promote broad planning perspective, plan for this? and again, coming back to the bus shelters that are quite wide for a narrow sidewalk on a heavy pedestrian corridor where you have to walk single file behind it or you saw the photo of the traffic control box on a -- right at the corner with a right-turn lane so you have pedestrians completely blocked from the view of right-turning vehicles. how does the agency plan for this? >> first of all, we're getting better at t. it's an evolutionary process in learning the things it --

learning the different elements you just amexed how to put them on the street. one of the things we do with all the projects, we know we have very limited sidewalk space. in some neighborhoods it's critical and we try to determine the best location for the devices. some of the devices by law have to be a certain size. we can't get them any smaller or thinner. [speaker not understood] the physical size of the shelters. on the traffic control boxes we're working with technology to get them smaller and smaller to get the new ones out therethv there are many example pxv of where we probably didn't put them in the best location. ~ examples [speaker not understood] the physical location, working with the neighborhood on where does this make the most sense. no one wants a traffic control box in their area that's going to impede pedestrian flow. but we're trying to figure out where is the best place from a safety perspective k1 from

regulatory perspective where it needs to go. [speaker not understood]. on the shelters themselves they have a specific place they need to go [speaker not understood]. the far side or near side. where they're placed in terms of the sidewalk, again, it comes down to some of the a-d-a requirements that you can't make them too narrow, you can't make them too close. so, gail can go into that in more detail. on the rest rooms, that's the challenge. can we incorporate that into existing building footprints, what other footprints other available we can look at. we look at this from a holistic perspective. [speaker not understood]. zooming up the intersection saying which corner can we get it in there. >> with the bus shelters, there is an a-d-a minimum in terms of what the clearance is. >> exactly. >> about a minimum. and that minimum, if it's right at the minimum, it's basically single file walking or wheelchair. >> right. >> access. and there are the bus shelters, there are the more narrow bus

shelters, but they don't accommodate the advertising. i know mta has requirement for advertising size. in other words, wider bus shelters. it seems to me that was an economic decision by mta. i'm not criticizing the agency, which i as someone who believes in transit funding understand mta needs funding, but it does have rerepercussions in terms of some of these busy sidewalks that have very little pedestrian walk space because of the width. >> no, i hear your point. i think we're probably going to look at some of those spaces to see what could be done. i mean, there are definitely limitations. [speaker not understood] in terms of the facilities out there as well. so, this might be a good segue to ask gail to come and talk about the shelter program and hopefully give some more opportunities in the future to figure out which of those pinpoint exactly so we can maybe reassess or reevaluate. >> absolutely.

[speaker not understood] has been very responsive in the situation. gail? >> gail stein from the [speaker not understood]. it is an important amenity to our rider. lack of seating can be a barrier to taking transit. it places signs for the muni signs. push button information for people who can't see the sign. and of course lighting is a safety issue. we pursue new locations based on rider ship. also we have a project at church and duboce where the islands are slightly wider. we can put a shelter where we couldn't before. but the most important aspect for a new shelter location is customer request. and this is an aside. i'll get to dpw part. i actually only go forward with a fraction of the number of

requests that i get because the sidewalks are narrow and they have street furniture. so, our main partner when we go forward with a new shelter and also with the replacement is dpw. each location needs a permit. for the new shelters, [speaker not understood] is also required. notice is provided within 150 feet of the location. there's a hearing so that business owners and individuals can provide their input, both positive and negative. so, we do not put any shelter in the ground without a permit from dpw and dpw has been a great partner with us. the preferred siting for a shelter is near the front of the bus zone because there are some people who obviously cannot get to a bus very quickly. sometimes we have a different part of the bus zone. if there is a fire scape or a pole. our preferred siting is at the front.

at 18th and castro for example there are locations where it is narrow. there is no denying there are places where it's narrow. where we get complaints, we do try to work with our contractor to find a slightly better site if that's possible. for example, as you know, we were able to work with dfw to eliminate one of the 10 mount newsracks and to put the shelter there. so, sometimes we can, sometimes we can't. we are very sensitive to the fact that the sidewalks are narrow and where we can, we can. so, with that any questions. >> supervisor kim. >> thank you. you know, the bus shelter issues come up in our district for a different set of reasons. i think you remember two years ago we had worked on the turk and hyde removal. one issue clutter on fourth can be created on narrow streets based upon people trying to move through the sidewalks, but

also the public safety issues. it's not just bus shelters. it isal everything on the street that kind of blocks sight, sight views to our police officers and residents, particularly in areas where we do have high levels of low-level crime such as drug dealing. so, i know that continues to be an issue. and i would really, know, like to work with the mta and see what strategies we can implement particularly in the tenderloin neighborhood where i know we're getting lots of requests to remove bus shelters. we're getting another request again from one of our more active corners. ~ you know i wonder if we can be more creative about t. one, besides bus shelters, we understand because we have a lot of seniors and disabled residents as well. we want them to sit while they wait from the bus or have shelter from the rain. some folks have brought up questions about whether we can remove the wall behind the chairs so at least there is some sight views so police officers that are driving down

the street, so people aren't hiding kind of behind the walls. one wally know is specifically for advertising. it would be i think really important to have a discussion about that aspect, too, the clutter. >> yes. >> of street furniture. >> we are very happy to discuss that. one of the issues also that we have with shelters is we are very cognizant of title 6 requirements that in addition to having shelters in better off neighborhoods, you also have shelters in lower income communities. >> i get that. >> so, it's a very difficult situation. i know in your district there are a lot of senior center its. so, we do hear a lot, don't take my shelter, don't take my shelter out. >> um-hm, um-hm. >> great, thank you, ms. stein. next we have tess cavanagh. ms. cavanagh?

sfgtv? >> we have a powerpoint? yes. good afternoon, supervisors. chairman wiener, supervisor kim, supervisor chiu. my name is tess cavanagh, i'm project manager at sfmta for operator rest room project. all right. we have over 2000 transit operators who drive the buses in the city. 76 transit lines with 146 terminals. our bus drivers really require access to facilities as they're performing their duties as operators. right now we have 17 portables in 15 locations, 18 licenses

with businesses providing access to rest rooms, 21 permanent operated rest rooms, 21 free rest rooms, and all access at mta facilities. we currently have 32 gaps where operators have no access to rest rooms during their routes which we're trying to take care of as soon as possible. [speaker not understood] is down from 57 so we're, you know, fully improving the situation. the gaps, 17 have no facilities, 15 have -- are taken care of with 15 portables. right now it is a challenge moving forward how we fill these gaps as effectively as possible. this is a map view showing -- woops, sorry -- showing all the

different various [speaker not understood] to the city. the ones that pertain here are the gaps. and the portables, those are the 32 sites that we need to address. we currently have a project on the board to install six portables. let's see. they're located at third and fitzgerald, third and hudson, 25th and potrero, ortega and 48th. geary and 32nd and the intersection of bali and lincoln. august 6th of three do not impact sidewalks and i'll go through them now. i'm sorry, this is the image of the prefabricated unit we intend to install. it is the smallest size that we can make it and still be a-d-a accessible. this was designed by our dpw

[speaker not understood]. >> what are the dimensions? >> what? >> what are the dimensions? >> we have two sizes. let's see. one that's standard size, eight-foot by 11 feet. and the net elevation which is i believe about 7 by 13. >> and how tall? >> let's see. i'd say -- let me get the drawings. i would say between 8 to 10 feet tall. >> and the six -- you have six in process now that that's the first phase. >> that's correct. >> do you know what the total number is that mta will ultimately propose? >> we have currently six more stays. we have 40 that have been approved as part of the general referral that we intend to roll out. that will be the next two phases, phase ii and phase iii. >>