changed. as you can see, on the photograph, you have in your package and that i have given you, we have all of the tiles that come off from the... excuse me. the large number of the tiles have come off on the walls and our shower pan and deteriorated and these needs to be replaced and when they are replaced it requires a minimum area for that new shower and that configuration then triggers a change of design. >> is that... >> there is a certain minimum circle, you need to be able to put in. >> for accessibility issues? >> i don't think that it is accessibility. i think that they say that any shower needs to have a minimum size. and when you get that minimum size, in where you have something that does not meet

those standards at this time, it triggers some other requirements, in terms of having a larger area. now, in our bathroom in order to have that work, the sink has to be moved and you have to have some plumbing changed. >> may i have, our department is that addressed in the building permit approval? >> the department code does have minimum requirement of shower side, 30 inch and 60 inches above the drain and 1024 square inches that is a separate issue and that would be addressed through the permit. >> okay. >> so, that on record our department will address those types of issues once the project starts. just to be clear. so >> and he just pulled his permit last week. so certainly within the last two weeks and there is no mention of that at all. and we have been going on and he just got the permit.

>> certainly, if the construction is not done per code, he will not get a sign-off and then he will have to rip it out. it behoofs him to be aware of what the code is, and i assume that he is because he is a contractor and so it will be done per code with my expectation. >> i wish that could be as optimistic as you are that it is done appropriately and as i pointed out when the units below me had work done because of the seeping water, and the probability of wood decay, it was nearly cosmetic without any permits or any inspection at all. and so i am quite concerned that here we have a building that has had some serious structural problems, that this work, that there is no indication that this is being taken performed by the code. >> commissioner mar? >> but i guess that this is

another question that goes not only to you, but to the department, you are raising other violations, but, our inspectors have not cited those structural problems. our inspectors have only the nov only addressing the bathroom problems as far as i know and also the paint. the peeling paint in your dining room, living room or wherever that is. and so if it is your opinion that there are structural problems but our inspectors have not cited that, for the building. but we... that is not part of this. that is not part of what we are discussing here today. >> unless, the department wants to clarify otherwise. >> you are absolutely correct and i say inspector dicks look here and you can stick your fingers into the studs and he said, that will be taken care of when he does his work. and where we he said that i can't site something i can't

see. when we have... this is a city wide problem. when you have years of water seepage through wood framed buildings, studs, and structural members deteriorate and i have seen this in this building and this problem is just continuing. and i have raised this with the inspector. and he said, don't worry it will be taken care of and i am very much worried because we have the whole height of the building where cosmetic, superficial repairs have been made without any attention to that. getting back to the list of 8 items which were cited, none of them have been done. >> commissioner lee? >> mr. paxton, you mentioned that some of these problem takes year of development to mold and mildew and such. my question to you is our records show that a report for a complaint was filed at the department of building

inspection in 2009. and at that time, the inspection showed that they were already missing tiles and mildew and rock. and obviously, if it was up to me that did not happen over night. so my question is what happened prior to 2009 and what did you do since when you first saw a problem? or did you not notice it until 2009. >> no it had been going on for years before that and there was a gradual deteriation of the shower and started off with cracks and i brought it to the owner's attention and the owner's sold the building and he bought it and the tiles started falling off and sheetrock and the bugs started appearing and i said that the work has to be done. and when nothing got done, i ultimately had to resort to calling housing. which i would have preferred not to have done. >> okay. i like to hear the property owner's response to that comment to when the time comes.

>> commissioner melgar? >> hello, how are you? >> good. >> so, you know, i as a group that is hearing the appeal, i need to see some evidence, you know, to make a decision. i heard from the landlord and it sounds to me like he is ready to go. i don't have any evidence, where i can assume that he is acting in bad faith that he only intends to do a cosmetic repair. and so i... you know, so far it is only to me, forgive me it has been your word for it. we can only rely on the professional expertise of the department's inspectors that is what they are there for and we trust that they are assessing the situation. i don't have any evidence in front of me to say that this type of repair and replace work

necessitates permit to enlarge the bathroom. so that to me is still a question, you know? whether the code mandates, you know, father than the permit that he has pulled. and you know, i would ask that we get that. but, is it the case that you are not permitting the work to proceed if it does not meet with your professional, you know, opinion that the permit is inadequate. is that what your position is? >> there were 8 items cited on the repair as i said. not one of them has been done and the largest one is the shower. >> just put the photo on the overhead. >> there it is. >> okay. if you turn that 90 degrees. you know, here we have our

shower, which is deteriorated, two floors below me there is the shower, down on the first floor. where nothing has been done there. with regards to your specific question what is my position, it is not rocket science when we have holes in the wall. where we have clipping led based paint that is not rocket science and there is not much discretion on that stuff. and when we come to what my lease does allow that he is trying to maneuver, the notice of violation to skirt his obligation and the contractual rights under my lease, and where i am asking that there are, where i have discretionary

control, when items are replaced, i am not going to allow him to ignore those contractual obligation and rights that i have. these other items cleaning the stupid flus why hasn't that been done? >> i don't know. there is a bunch of this stuff that has just gone on. now he is in a world of financial hurt and i think that i demonstrated that in the package that i gave to you and i think that he just does not have the capacity to make these repairs and he is trying to buy as much time as he can. you know, the building had a notice of foreclosure and there are tax liens and etc., my family and i want to live in a good, clean, safe, environment where the building complies with the code, and with the building laws. >> could i answer your question? >> not quite. and so you, i am trying to

figure out whether or not you are willing to let him and his workers in to do the repairs that they have pulled permits for. or is your position that unless you see a scope of work that you agree with, that you will then let him in. >> excuse me, yes, i want to see a scope of work. among other things, we are a family that has our normal routine and it is a fairly small apartment and when you start removing this, the only toilet and you start having major sheetrock work and repair, that makes the unit uninhabit able especially in the middle of the school years, we have had summer and he has not been doing this and here we have the school year starting up again. and there is certainly remedies that he has and rights that he

has to find us, replacement housing, and i have offered him solutions, and some alternatives, and this has not come together. and so, i want to get the work done. believe me my wife wants the work to be done and my daughter wants the work to get down and it has been going on for years and years and we are tired of it. >> commissioner walker. >> it is some what of a cunundrum the permit haves been applied for and received and he is ready to do the work and he has stated here that he is will be to relocate you to do it. and i feel like until such time as our staff is able to go in and address some of the concerns that you have, that would necessarily need to expand the scope of the permit, we are in between a rock and a hard place. it is from what we have been

given, it is clear that the work needs to be done. and it seems like your routine has been disrupted already with the holes in your shower, you know, and those are the things that we need to address as a department, and that we want to make sure that people live in safe and habitable places and so, i feel like at this point, we have before us, someone who has stated that he is willing to do the work and taken out permits and i get that there is some disagreement about what color and the scope of it, but i feel like we can't know those details until such time as the work starts. so, i mean, that i... we can't, we can't make a decision on information that we don't have and is not before us, including other issues that might exist in the building. and i hear that those are concerns. hopefully, our staff can make note of those type of things as

they go out and look. and as they are inspecting this job if it will be allowed to move forward. and so, normally, in these kinds of situations this commission is limited as to what we can do, and we can deny the appeal, and we can you know, hope to resolve the things in a way that gets the work done. and maybe, you know, loosen the knot and provide the resolution and i would like to see some immediate intervention as it were with the code enforcement out reach program which includes both the tenant and the landlord representative to try to help resolve this quickly. and that is what these organizations do is try to help get resolution in these kinds of situations. so, you know, i feel, i feel for you, and i hear what you are saying. and i also feel for the

building owner who has his idea about how he wants to resolve the situation and feels, some what stimeding that. and so i feel like we need to provide some intervention, here. if allowed. >> the commissioners... >> well the property manager and i, we are seeing eye to eye and we had discussions and we talked about how to resolve the items. i have no problem with paying part of the construction costs. there was one of his prior attorneys said how about this and this? and he and i agreed. and it never got done. and we have had the prior contractors that said, here is the scope of what has to be done and i said, i agree. and so we have had plenty of other of his agents, who have tried to intervene in a positive way to get the work

done, and generally speaking, i have agreed with him. >> and yet we are here. >> and yet we are here. >> is there any more public comment? >> no because we need to move on. >> no more questions. i am fine, my fine is just general. as a commission... >> okay. >> you can have a seat. >> thank you. >> as a commission, we have fight hard to get the land lords to do anything in the cases and so we have a testimony where he is willing to do anything and it is a delicate situation between the tenant and the owner but as commissioner walker pointed out, we have certain permiters that we have to work in and i think that we need to up hold this appeal,; is that correct?? >> is that the most. >> the abatement. >> that is what i said. and so i would like to make a motion to do that. >> is there any more public comment? >> okay. >> sorry, you can't, you have had yours. >> i am sorry i afraid not.

>> there is a commissioner mccarthy has made a motion to up hold the order of abatement? >> and might i amend slightly to give some time? >> yes. >> and also, ask that our department bring in our code enforcement out reach representatives from the landlord and tenant organizations and bring in the tenant and landlord and try and move forward smoothly? i mean, that i think that we have these organizations for a reason, so, i would ask for an extension, you said 30 days to do the work, maybe 60 days. so, it gives, a month to try and resolve it? in a month to do it. >> yeah. >> yeah. i agree. >> yeah. >> is that... >> so 60 days? >> 60 days. >> did you second that motion? >> yeah.

>> okay. >> with an amendment. >> i just need you to clarify that the motion is to up hold the order of abatement. based on your finding that the conditions are as stated in the nov. >> yes. >> okay. >> and just so that we are clear that it is based on what it is based on. >> yes. >> so did i correctly state what... and that you would like to move to up hold the order of abatement based on your findings that the conditions are as stated in the nov? >> that the work needs to be done? >> i like to see some assurance that the tenant will be allowing the property owner into the space to do the work, too. >> could i ask a question? >> is there a... is there a... if we up hold this, and then the work is required, and then we give it 60 days, is there a

means by which the work can be forced? >> can we get, can we or can he be allowed to do the work? that we permitted? >> if the tenant does not let him in? >> i mean... >> good question. >> in order for the landlord to get access to the unit, without the tenant's permission, i believe that he would have to go to court and get an order permitting that. there is no way that he can, i mean, my understanding and i am not a landlord, tenant lawyer, is that he would need to go and get a court order that he can't force his way into the building. >> i mean, if there are provisions? the code for the department to get emergency powers to go in and correct life safety hazards, perhaps, the substitute for the director or the secretary needs to address that but the landlord on his

own could not... my understanding is that he could not do that. commissioner mar? >> so. i think, i believe, that the intent of the extension to 60 days is to hopefully have, the landlord and the tenant and with the department's assistance and some community groups, sit down so that they can mediate the access question, so that all of the work, based on the permits pulled can be carried out, and concluded. now if that is not possible, then i think that we will after the 60 days, then we will have to rehear it. it is going to come back. >> no. if we vote to up hold, it is upheld. >> okay. >> and we are just giving them 60 days to do it. which is right. because the work needs to be done. the question is, if they are not allowed access, >> right. >> that it creates a weird situation. >> right. >> and so let me clarify and i

think that i understand your question better. >> the landlord can't force their way in but if you up hold the order of abatement and give them 60 days and, that expires and the work is not done. >> right. >> and there is permits and the landlord appears to have done what he could do and then it would then at that point, be referred, probably to the litigation committee of the department and then the city attorney would have to step in. >> right. >> okay. >> does that answer, i think that... i think that is how, and i mean, that is how the inspector and i keep forgetting your title. chief building inspector could talk about it more, in terms of the city acting, or moving to enforce it, it would be the city attorney's office at that point that would step in. >> okay. >> and i think, even though it may not come back to us, i think that what we will have is more information from our department, and the community

groups in terms of their opinion about trying to bring the two sides together. and i think that would go a long way in reporting to the litigation committee or to the next body because then they would say that we tried, and you know, this is what the owner tried to do and yet, and this is what the tenant tried to do. and if it is not resolved, then at least, the city will have an opinion, through our department about which site was... >> but, how both sides were playing it out. >> yes, let me ask this, right now. since the tenant is here. mr. paxton will you let the property owner in to do the work? >> >> i will let the property owner in to do the work. we have our 7 fairly minor items that don't have too much discretion, we have the one major item being the shower

repair and i certainly am not going to just wave my right for contract over quality of items that are used to replace. >> and i am going to be quite concerned about how, if we have place to live, if we don't have a toilet and we have sheetrock dust all over the place in the middle of the school year, especially senior year i am going to be quite concerned about that. >> well, we hear from the property owner that he is will be to relocate your family to another facility during the work, would you be willing to do that? that is all that i am asking. >> with regards to that, yes, and i also want to have a scope of material and i have given him a list of materials, that are acceptable. i have already provided that. >> i just wanted a yes. >> yes. >> for the department.

>> right. this is... i am not an attorney. i have done, you know, work with tenants for many years and i believe that the landlord actually has quite a bit of rights under california law and in fact, i think that it is skewed that way. but he has legal representation and so it is his responsibility to figure out what he can and cannot do, and i believe that he has the right to go in there. and i think that is in fact why mr. paxton negotiated this in the lease, i think that he is saavy that way, i think that as a department, we don't have the responsibility to enforce his lease, on his behalf. we only have the responsibility to the code. and in our process. and so, i think that i would, cautious us not to over step and you know, our authority, in

this regard, i do think that we are responsible for the violations as found by our staff. and because that is who is working on our behalf on the ground. and so, i would second you know, commissioner walker's comments to up hold the order. and give them a little time. and also, to encourage folks to avail themselves of our relationships with the non-profit to do this kind of medation work because there is some negotiation that needs to take place and i would hope that we don't see this 60 days from now. but, you know, it is a difficult situation. >> could we hear from the department? >> just to answer your question about the access. with the valid permit issued is that not relevant, and maybe

the city attorney might comment and the inspector can do the work if they don't get access on the initial permit and i wonder should any lie on the issue here effect the permit issued? >> as i said before, there are provisions in the code for emergency orders to be issued and for the department under those orders to get access. and i don't, i am not hearing that that is what is going on here. and that in order to with the exception of those, the emergency orders, like for example, if during the earthquake, when the buildings were falling down and the department, they got an emergency order to go in right at that moment because there is serious and eminent danger to the public, or to the tenants. there is that situation. i am not hearing that here. and in the absence of that, then, i think that the landlord can go to superior court and get an order to enter to

conduct the repairs if a court finds that there are necessary, and that those rights exist under whatever contract that the tenant has of the landlord, but, absent the emergency order situation when i described, no one can force their way into the property. does that answer the question? and then,... >> the chief building inspector. two items, one is that the department certainly will have to facilitate any kind of out reach meeting to resolve this issue. with respect to our department's actions if we had an emergency exiting situation or life safety hazard then we will take the appropriate orders and we will get access to prevent the issue and even under the permit inspection, if a owner of a property, during the course of an inspection refuses entry and asks us to leave, we will leave, under the

permit, we have authorization to inspect the work but we would not inspect the rest of the premises and so there is a limited scope of the permit. and if they ask us to leave, we will leave and we will seek an inspection which is the due process. >> and thank you for that. and also, isn't it the case as you are inspecting the work which is permitted, if there are connected circumstances rotting wood, beyond what was anticipated in the initial permit, you would at that point, note that. i mean, we see that all of the time. >> that is correct. >> the permit will have a defined scope of work and it needs to be performed to the code fit did not meet the code, or any other provision to the code we will write additional corrections and require a revised plans to make sure that the full compliance was achieved. >> thank you. >> so we have a motion. >> we have a motion and i also would like to say that it might

behoof us to hear this even though we have given 60 days, to have some sort of a report back, at our next appeal abatement appeals meeting next month. >> sounds good. >> 60 days. >> with the 30 day, check in. >> yeah. >> so, it is the motion is to up hold the order of abatement not to continue the matter. >> yes. >> great. >> thank you. >> just chair on the second matter, are we going to impose the cost? and to whom? and from what point to what point? what are the costs to date on this? could anyone tell me? of our department? >> because that may be...

>> since the order has been appealed, we hold back on the assessment of costs so we don't have an assessment of cost at this point in time that would be determined upon the issuance of the order of abatement. it is my understanding that the cost will be applied to the property owner. >> yes. >> yeah. >> that is... >> and those costs are continuing to roll, at that point do they need in the 60 days that is a good question, do the costs continue to accrue during the 60 days? >> yes, upon the abasement yes, they are liable. >> okay. >> maybe... >> just at the point of order, does the appellant then have the right to come back and ask us to appeal that cost? >> no. >> no. >> right now. >> no.

>> right now is when we have the opportunity. >> yeah, i mean it is... if he is trying to the inspector through the complain of command to the chief in regards to the circumstances for modifying some of those costs. can we do that, if we take