>> at the south east. >> march, was before, and for me, i will say the request, i came on may last year and i talked about the concerns that i have and so i would love to my colleagues and if we could go to the bay view. >> we don't have anis with you that, issue with that. and i have been to them twice and that is why i am confused. >> i don't know if the location is and it could be just a clerical. >> i am happy to go to the bay view. >> no offense to southern if you are watching. >> no problem, he was happy and ready to go. >> and i don't mean to do that. it could be in the future. if he is ready for us. >> and yeah, i could call. >> okay. >> redmond.

>> yeah. >> sell sullivan >> that is fine. could we see a chart, you know, a listing of where we have been because with ten, we don't want to overlook, you know, certain stations too. and so that is, and so i don't think that we make it to all of them each year. and so, seeing what happened, or where we have been over the last two years might be helpful and then, schedule bay view accordingly. but make sure that everybody we have had a visit to every station. >> sure. but we can set the bay view for october. >> and inspector? >> yes. >> could you please, first check to see? >> what, before we schedule bay view, a second time, when maybe some other stations have not, and we have not been there. >> okay. >> and let's take sure that we have been to all ten before we can circle back and if we are putting bay view first, and if that is okay with you,

commissioner loftus, and we put bay view first, on the recycling and you know when we are starting all over again but i think that we need to complete at least seeing all ten districts before we start going back. is that... i don't think that we want to leave any part of the city out. you know on in? >> is that... >> yeah, i think that is an open question. which is if there is another one and i guess that the bay view is on my mind because i worked there. but if there is another one that is in better order, i completely defer to you inspector. >> we will check it and get back to you. >> great, thank you. >> commissioner loftus for bringing that to our attention. >> i am going to be out of town on november 6 and 13, and i am going to be on vacation those two weeks. returning on the 20th. >> okay. >> so then, on i just want to touch base again where are we at with what week do we have

captain on the police reserves for that issue? >> and the 25th of this month, so. >> that is great, that is perfect. >> anything else that you would like to add to at again da. >> i am sorry it is me again. >> commissioner loftus, yes. keep on coming >> this should be easy. this is for you city attorney, sorry. the dvdgo or in expecter are we calendard for that? >> can we calendar it as like an incentive point? is that... i mean is that... >> my understanding is that we are close and there is one of the advocates that raised the last minus you and we are very, very close and we could calendar it. >> our dance card get booked. >> and we want to get it approved before october. >> we have it penciled in

before the 25th. >> and could give us more time. >> this month. no. no. >> okay. >> and then that won't work. >> why? >> and we will meet... >> we can, leave it on for the 25th and we will try. and we can vie vacate it if we can't get it done. >> thank you. >> okay, i think that we are now, ready for the public comment, regarding line items 2 abcand d, please call it inspector monroe. if i can announce that we will not have a meeting next wednesday and we will be back at city hall on the 25th. >> thank you. >> and public comment? >> >> ladies and gentlemen, and the audience and commissioners, good evening, once again. i just like to make a quick

comment. we get to have a full understanding here of what your job actually is as a commission. and we know that the police department has a tough job, and we know that they are on the street and can be shot at, there is no doubt about that whatsoever. but your job is not to bring up that fact non-stop at this commission and praise yourself and them. and your job is to bring the news to the public. the citizens at large have the right to know what the hell is going on, that is your job. that is your only job that you do have here. not to say... the exceptional, report, and i think that the occ is a horse and pony show and i am not alone in this city. and the police department has 99.5 percent good cops. but the occ protects bad cops. you know it. we all know it.

>> we had the african american after a few weeks ago was jumped by san francisco policeman and a gun put to his head. where is that occ report gone and to outer space, siberia? where, zero. and on the vacation with officer woods. and going back three and a half years ago. and zero row in front of 12 police officers they could not find a witness. and he thought that he could verbally assault me because he was a san francisco police officer. and going to throw me out of the hall of justice physically, the thing here is that we talk about the agendas but i don't see any agenda of what the next four or five weeks are going to have presented here so that i can make a presentation on the occ or we can visibly or verbally talk about positions

like what miss chan took at the last meeting. they does not have to humble herself, i don't generally agree with her at times and i think that she talks too much sometimes. but she was write on the particulars and you miss and the attorney were wrong. >> you know the protocols of law and you were wrong, you are attorney you know what the rules of law is. and you have to go back to law school to find out, you don't let a guy out of prison before the judge says so. this woman was not cleared of anything. and you did not get a letter from the city, city attorney or the district attorney or anyone and you went ahead and voted and i don't know if the power is coming from the police officers association or where it is coming from. but the public is not happy when you do things like that. i thank you for your time on this you. >> any further public comment, hearing none? public comment is now closed. >> call the next line item.

>> 3, discussion, regarding the status and compliance report on patrol specials. discussion. >> >> for someone that talks a lot i will do the introduction and i will wait you for to call the item >> you don't talk a lot. you say what you need to say. and so i just want to thank you for the hard work that i can tell from the packet of information, about the patrol specials there are a lot of work that went into this and i want to thank you for that and what i would ask for is has been asked by president mazzucco to try to figure out where we are with the patrol specials and i had several metings with the police

department and i know that they are difficult and must be complied with and they spent a lot of time to analyze and put it in a con size manner and so it is the green fold and her it is in chart form and we will dive into what we find after you call these items. >> >> good evening commissioners and chief and members of the public, from the community and engagement unit and this is officer carly brown and she has worked to try to answer some of the questions that have came up regarding the patrol special and she is ready to plenty on some of the findings and again open it up to discussion if there is anything else that needs to be addressed. thank you. >>

>> good evening. >> you talk about the patrol special compliance, and that was asked about in the prior hearing. we are here to talk about the patrol special compliance that was asked about in a previous

meeting. and just a quick review because i don't know we don't know if you have talked about it recently and just go over some stuff, and the police commission befinds the officer as a private person who contract to perform the security duties in a private nature. and or a private person and businesses within the boundaries set forth by the police commission. >> i am not going to read the whole thing it is long. but basically the patrol special officers shall be regulated by the police commission that may establish the requirements for the procedures to governor the position and that is why i am here to talk about the procedures and the requirements we have nine patrol specials

right now and the names are adt as opposed to putting the names up there and this is just a overview of this chart was put together originally by lieutenant risk and i transformed it a little bit and the nine are on top, and the ones on the bottom that do have the names and those are the previous parole specialists that are no longer a part of the program. and these are the 17 assistances patrol specialists. and that they have all of their compliance charts and this is the one. and it has everybody on it. and you can see the colors, for the orange, that is the missing data that i was unable to get from the patrol specialist for whatever reason, and then, in red, is the insurance requirements that are required to have, they have the insurance but the city is not added the additionally insured

which makes it sufficient. >> and this is just an overview of the data and in may, when i had originally sent out letters, sorry. and these are the main things that were asked for, the guard card and the filing card. at that time, four of the assistant patrol specialists did not provide the copies of the firearms card and there were four patrol specials working as patrol special assistants that also did not have a guard card and there were 7 of the 9 patrol specialists did not provide the client list to the commission. and eleven of those patrol specialists and the assistant patrol specialist had a problem. and as of september, we are down to two of the assisted

patrol specialists have not provided the copies of the guard and firearms card and both of those are recently expired and i think that they will be taken care of and two of the specialists that we are working for the others patrol specialists have not provided it but two are more than happy to get the guard and firearms cards and then there are two outstanding specialists that have failed to provide the client list and fees to the commission. and we are down to only two insurance problems and both of those have to do with having the city as an additional insurer, which is a problem because it opens up the city to liability but it is better than (inaudible) and then we also have two patrol specialists and i know that you have spoken about them in the past that are actually ineligible and they are currently still operating their beats.

these are the common violated sections that i have after reviewing all of the data, and looking at everybody's files, these are the common problems that have come up. and which should be insurance requirements, and the guard card, and the beat sales, and the soliciting new prescribers outside of the beat area. and termination letters, or orders given by police officers and cooperating with the police investigations, and the patrol specials, and personally patrolling their beats is not relying solely on the assistance to patrol the beats for them. and then assistance working the minimum of 8 hours a week. and then, like i said that earlier, providing the client list to the commission. and then signing in and out at their home station. >> well, looking over all of the files i found a large problem about the beats

themselves. there used to be 148 beats and now we are down to 67 beats and that is through annexing the beats or consolidating them together. and sorry it is kind of shiny. and so this is a list and this is page one of a list of all of it is beats and you can see that some of them are active and non-active and this is the list of 67 that is there. and the problem arises when we look at... there are 28 out of the 65 and there are 28 active beats. that means that there are actively worked and clients on that beat and of the 28 ten of them are being run by specialists who are ineligible run them. so that leaves only 18 beats without any kind of conflicts or problems. and last is that there are 30 beats that are just out there,

and they have been abandoned or who owns them has retired and nobody is currently working on them and the problem is that the patrol specialists are soliciting on those properties or perhaps that they want to and there should be a process that should be brought up in the future about what to do with the 30 beats that are left out there. >> and there are also, nine beats, that there are some sort of conflict and it is not reconciled within who actually owns the beat or the beat has not been transferred properly and what the commission and the office of the police commission has and what my records have and what the patrol specialists are saying that they have and there is some sort of a conflict that needs to be go through in the future. >> thank you so mitch. thank you so much. >> and i want to thank commissioner chan for all of the work on this because historically there has been a lot of back and forth for the

patrol specialists. and and there is uniforms, and there has been concerns about the certificates of insurance, and concerns about what is in the cars and concerns about the activities of some of the specials several have been dismissed and i see two in the audience and i know that byard and wielly that are pro-active and trying to make things better and i appreciate your efforts gentleman and you do good work on this and i think that there are still us issues and there are fewer than there are before but we need to get to the bottom of this and beats that are not operated and people that think that they own

the beats. how are we policing the patrol and so i am going to ask both of you, do we have enough time and energy and people available to do this? because it is a full time job. >> well given the opportunity to make a recommendation. my thought would be that the administrative portion of the patrol special monitoring would be someone in the police commission office whether it be a civilian person or an officer that will be assigned to take care of those responsibilities, and that the supervisor vision and the check in and the day-to-day operational portion would go out to the district stations. and where either the lieutenant or the night supervisor vicing captains and i believe that there are four of them that are out and about that could meet with the captains or vice versa on a pretty much daily day sis so that we can make sure that supervision piece was handled

and also may help to form a stronger relationship between the police department and the patrol specials and again the monitoring of the administrative part as far as the client lists and the responsibilities and the insurance and the administrative portion would be assigned to somebody in the police commission. and having discuss had that with the officer and that would be my recommendation that in the future it should be placed somewhere outside of the youth and community and the engagement unit because we are not able to go out and be out there in the evening. and in the various locations to meet up with the patrol special officers and the administrative portion does not really fit within the duty and the responsibilities that our unit is going to be responsible for. and so that would be my recommendation. >> and so inspector monroe said no. [ laughter ] >> and so i think that we get another body in the office that will be great. >> not your body.

>> commissioner chan? >> we discussed this and i just thought that it is a matter of resources. in an ideal world if we had the resources we would do it even though it should have fall in the chief's lap i would like to ask the chief about that if there are resources now or in the future for that to happen if we need to do some research and get back on this issue, i think that it makes sense for someone in the police commission to do it and it is just a matter of resources. >> i mean, asking the police chief that is down 300 police officers and 160 civilians, everybody has to come from someplace. >> and so it seems like. >> it would be a future consideration. >> okay. >> and just a minute, how many patrol special officers are there? >> well, there are nine patrol specialist and then there are 17 assistant making 26 total. >> 26 people.

>> yes. >> every time that we do this, i realize that we are talking about 26 people. >> okay. commissioners anything further? >> okay, i have a question. so, when it comes to the patrol specials and discipline, we do those in open session. correct. >> okay. >> and so i will ask that question before with the attorney glares at me. and that is okay. and so my thought would just be to consider, i was actually just assigned a couple of cases which it looks like it brings up a lot of these issues and i have had a case on it where it is clear that these are just policy meets discipline where there are gray areas and it is reasonable and somebody who is well steeped in these rules and what is happening with the patrol specials and we might want to consider assigning one person to handle all of the

patrol special cases for consistency of the discipline, because my sense is that there is an idea among the patrol specials that if the rules changes, if there is some vague and that there is some whether or not things are enforced it is an ongoing issue and just like the courts do that we might want to consider identifying someone who an expert or steeped in there to handle these cases. >> are you volunteering? >> in fact, i told them, we need to have someone who is an expert in it and so this is not something that i am an expert in as of yet. >> and i am willing to take the patrol cases and it is something that i have been involved in since i have been in the commission and candidly the whole thing and the issue that we are dealing with, is compliance, and the reason why we have compliance problems is that there a lack of supervision and i think that is what it boils down to. and so i will take this and work with commissioner chan on

this with her recommendation and we are down to 26 patrol specials, do we provide a valuable service? >> yes. is it unique for san francisco? for anywhere? yes, it is unique? is it a hybrid, i don't know if you will call it a hybrid and they look at police officers but they are not and we have gone back and forth is this controlled by a charter amendment? yes. and we could only control the patrol special assistants but you have to work with us and i know that under alan we have more working with us but still you can't be a commissioner and drive down the block and see the patrol specialists that are not wearing the right uniform and it happens all of the time and you know, so, we need a compliance, it is not up for us to walk around the neighborhoods to see what they are wearing and it is not you, you are doing a good job, but it is others and so in fact if you see the patrol specials that we have terminate and they are driving down a block in china town and a car that looks

like a san francisco unmarked car and is he wearing a uniform that is not patrol special but it is all in black and working as a security guard doing the same thing. so, you know, we need to get on top of this. because the public thinks that they are police officers and you know we see what some of the officers that we had to let go and they are the farest thing from being police officers, i will do it. >> god bless you child. >> and president mazzucco? >> so, thank you for doing that. and i know that it is a lot of work and i know for the two of you it has been a lot of work and the other people helping you. just to give you the thought process that i had when we were going through the charts. this chart is useful and i think that we should continue to ask for an update of this chart so that we are aware of where we are with the compliance issue and that as it is clear that there is a repeated violations with clear notice to the special officers that they are not complying with the rules and it needs to be settled in the discipline process so that there is

oversight and accountability. and so we will just continue to ask for it and now that you have put it altogether and you have a structure for it and we will continue to ask for an update on this and understand that there might be a training coming up in october. >> there is. >> okay. where all of these rules again are run over with the specialist and we are clear and so i am hoping that not all of them, since it is required. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> any public comment regarding this item? >> hearing none, oh,... patrol special bayard? >> i dropped off a pack of papers and i know that you are very busy, and i know that will take time to get through it, but, it does raise a few issues that we have. and when you talk about

compliance, we need to well define what compliance is. we have officers that are on disability, and cannot work their beats but have assistants working for them and they are able to respond at any time to phone calls, and from clients, and from the department, i would think that administratively and being able to work their beats, and being in constant contact with their assistants, and they are very much in to the running of their beats, i see no problem with an officer being able to do that. and it is accessible at all times and so as far as the compliance, let's define what the compliance is. and let's work it out so that we know exactly, what the officer can do and what he can't do. and administratively, working their beats, i don't see a problem with that, as long as they are able to be contacted by not only the department but their clients at all times.

and e-mail, phone calls, i mean, this is something that you know, has been going on for a long time. and one of the other things about our officers working 8 hours or else they are going to be terminated. we need to have a pool of officers, and of assistants that we can call, in case one of the beat owners becomes incapacitated and hospitalized and in an accident, and sick, and we need somebody that we can call to be able to work their beats. and next month, we have a thing at the castro street fair. and they want as many patrol special officers as they can get and this is a good reason to have a pool of officers available. if the officers is not working, let's work out a way so that we have the star and the badge and an id card and keep it until they do work. and then return it to them for the time that they are going to work, it could be a couple of

days, weeks, months, send a letter to the commission letting them know what is going on, send a letter to the liaison and letting them know that this officer is going to be working for this amount of time and so there are a lot of compliance issues that we have look at as far as what is the actual compliance and i look forward to working with you. >> and if i may, may i... just ask this question, when i hear you say that, does that mean that you don't know the issues that are raised here, and when you say actual compliance, does that mean that you don't agree, or understand the issues raised by the district? >> we understand what the issues are. >> okay, so this is a compliance issues that they are talking about, right? and so when we say, i just want to say, you don't know what compliance is >> we need to... >> you may disagree with what compliance is. >> we do disagree. >> it is different than saying that you don't know what the issues are that are raised. >> we can't to redefine them or define them more carefully. >> i get that and that is a

different statement than saying than i am hearing you say what is compliance? because it seems to me clear what compliance is based on this report. >> and so, okay. i wanted to make that clear. >> and you may want to have a set of compliance issues or you may want to understand it or narrow, but that is a different statement. so i just want to be clear about that myself. >> all right. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> and any further public comment? >> hearing none, public comment is now closed. and please call the next line item. >> on the note on the calendar. the next step was also that we have some pending revised rules, the rules and right now are very detailed, and they speak for themselfs in terms of what the compliance issue is and if we want to go further and i tend that we put on the calendar, november 6th, for any, i know that draft