a long time. so i appreciate you trying to educate us on how you do it, but, i think that i know how a nightclub runs as well. you answered one of my questions, that you said patting down, so you do pat them down? >> yeah. >> who trained your security on how to pat down? >> do you want to speak to that? >> our security guards have gone through the guard card class and process where the process is taught. >> did you go through guard card? >> i have, but my card is currently expired. >> did you learn how to pat down? >> i did. >> how much of your security plan do you train your security on? >> well, whenever we add something to do it was in the past months or however, we have a meeting, and we what is the word? >> excuse me. yeah, we train on the stuff

that we are adding and we revisit all of that is there to make sure that they are all in the knowledge of what is going on. >> if you hired me tomorrow as a security guard, what training would you give me. >> first you would be required to go through the guard card program and once you complete that and then we will sit down with me and go over... >> everything? >> yes. >> could you just say your name? >> my name is john, and i am the general manager. >> and all of your guards are employed by you and not by a private company? >> that is correct. >> let's talk about your promoters for a second, there is a list of promoters here. are these your own promosters? >> yes. >> i see. okay. i want to talk a little bit about you made it a comment about the conditions of the neighborhood, but you chose

that neighborhood. that was a conscious decision. >> that is correct. >> i want to talk about over serving. when people, and when a line of people come down the street, i mean, in mass. 30 people are walking down the street two by two and heading for your club in a line, that does not tell you that they are coming from a party bus? that is out of your sight parked around the corner? >> i would like to answer the question. i mean, from what you depicted, yeah, that sounds like it could be a party bus and i would not argue that. >> how does your security, how is your security trained to not admit people who are already drunk? >> technically visible signs of intoxication are apparent and people will slur and stand awkwardly in line and someone will hold them up and i actually don't involve myself

with the admission process. but i have been present outside as we have admitted patrons, and we do effectively, and i think that it is important that john respond to this question but we do reject a large amounts of patrons. >> the buck stops with you, you own the club? >> it is in your name >> the permit is in your partner's name. >> you and your partner own the club, the buck stops with you and the manager can give information, but in the end of the day it is your responsibility >> correct. >> you should know that and you should understand what the policies are for the door. >> i understand the policy and they do have visual impressions of what is going on regularly, that is all. >> there seems to be over service in your club because there are a lot of reports about people being really drunk. what kind of instructions do

you give the bartenders in serving? >> after the last meeting with the captain, we decided to move from 12 ounce cups to ten ounce cups which is a less amount that people are serving. but, and we have trained the bartenders and if we see somebody that looks like they have had too much. and if they are with the people and we take them to the cars or if they need a cab, we will help them with that. >> and you use plastic? >> yes, after the incident that happened with the bottle, we stopped selling glass. >> do you serve or pour your beer into plastic. >> yes, man. >> except for bottle service. >> and you monitor the bottle service for over intoxication? >> yes. and you have seven guards, and is that 1 to 30, is that what

your ratio? >> yes, it is one guard for every 30 people >> on your noise, you said that you hung a suspended ceiling? and you have a limiter, do you have a lock on your limiter? >> yeah, we have a separate cabinet with a lot of the sound equipment that the djs would be able to tamper with. and they will hear it that the noise is noticable at the sound booth and a lot of people will complain and we will monitor it because we have a separate room and we make sure that that separate amplifier turns down or equally or disproportionately levels. >> how do you explain the complaints about the club? >> we had a tenant that lived in the hotel that was a known complainer, prior to our operation she was complain regularly and on several

occurrences she called the police on nights when we are not in operation. and she is also taken a lot of action on her grievances and i think that we still, and we still address any complaints that she has, and we still acknowledge her and we still come up and talk to her, but i think that she has subdued the level of complaints, more recently a member of the community up the block has been a larger advocate of noise and i believe the majority of our noise complaints or a large number, rather come from a specific person up the block. >> okay. but that person is hearing noise, yes? >> yes. >> and i think... >> and you keep your front door closed? >> the doors at all times are closed unless we are admitting patrons that is the only time that the doors are ever open. and the doors are also facing turk street not polk street where she lives, but the difficult is that the federal building, and that might, echo the sound upwards.

>> how can you describe the indents that are happening in and around your club so frequently? >> when you say in and around? >> in and around your clubs? >> a fight starts in your club and someone is pushing that is an incident in your club. >> yes. >> it is not just a gun shot that we are interested in, we are interested in patron safety. so, how do you explain the increase of incidents in and around your club? >> when it is happening inside of the club, i think that it has a lot to do with the nature of the club. and we have not had any, i mean, we have... >> what does that mean? >> the nature of the club? >> the nature of the business, i am sorry. and it is a nightclub and people are consuming alcohol and from from the interpretation of what that means to me. is that the judgment of the clientele is impaired every time that they have a drink. when we look at incidents that

do occur inside of the club, sometimes it is difficult for us to assess what are their motivation and we are focusing today on the incidents that occur from a given night or from, or from a night of production where we have the large crowds. we do also view that we have successful evening and we don't have the incidents. >> is it the promoter? >> at times, they could be attributed to that? >> are your promoters on the promoter list? >> do you ever check our promoter list? >> i myself have not checked your promoter list. >> who signs the contracts you or your manager. >> typically they are verbal arrangements. >> do you know that you are suppose thed to check the list before using a promoter? you did not know that >> i didn't know that, but i do know that the promoter that we work with work at many

established venues around the city, we don't have any that are isolated from just noble. >> that does not stop you from needing to check that list. >> understood. >> you said that you have good nights and bad nights and you can't explain the experience in behavior, you don't think that is the promoter or the style of music. >> that might be a better recommendation is the style of music. and for, you know, from our perspective in the industry and i understand that i only have three years window into this industry, but the style of music does influence the crowds. and the music that we typically play, club hits, top 40 and hip hop, will draw a certain type of crowd different than the venues that will play, like transor house music and we try to incorporate more that have music and we do have nights that we promote that are limited to that style of music. and i think that our perception

is that certain styles of music have aggravated tones to them. >> so in my opinion, i think that you have over think, over rationalize what is going on in your club and you are not dealing with people and how people act and i think that it is very important that you do deal with people, because, it is a public safety issue. i am concerned about all of the incidents that happened in your club. i understand, that the neighborhood might be contributing, i saw in the time line where somebody left your club on march 25th. and was approached by people on the outside. and it is true that you cannot and you are not a cop and you can't patrol your entire neighborhood. but it is important that you find a way to have your patrons

be safe. and okay. i think that is all of my questions for you, thank you. >> other commissioners? commissioner lee and then commissioner campagnoli. >> do you want to go first? >> yes. >> campagnoli and then lee. >> good evening. >> and from what i hear, it sounds like it is just getting worse. and you met with the captain, very early this year, and our executive director reconditioned it, your permit already. and i don't think that you have been complying with those. and now, these new incidents have occurred. it is not good business. and it is not good business. and i mean, i am just going to point out that this one. and this is dated june 4th. permit holder requires security to patrol 100 feet in every

direction, including the crosswalks around the club for 30 minutes after the venue closes each night and until all patrons have left the area including cross the street where pat trons congregate once the club is closed. what happened on the 15th? >> there was 20, 30, people fighting out on the street. right there on turk. right there, where were you guys? you didn't call the police? you were patrolling, and that was before 2:00 >> i could speak to that my name is monte hill and i am the assistant manager there. >> our security did actually walk this group out of the club and down the street tha. is when we noticed that there was a bus that was waiting for them and it was more than 100 feet down the street it was more or less 200 feet. and the patrons got on the bus and we thought that everything was okay and at that point is

when the malay incident. >> so you guys never knew that all of those people who came in to your establishment all came in together? >> they did not all come in together, they came down in waves. they came down a few at a time. we have a line of people outside of the club so it is really hard to determine if everyone is coming from one direction. >> where does your line snake is it on polk on turk. >> on turk. >> and because the main entrance is on turk. >> and this bus was parked on turk. >> yes. >> okay. nso the fight breaks out and you do not bother to call the police and this is a view by the officers who are driving by. >> okay. number 5, permit holder will send a 30-day calendar of upcoming events to the entertainment commission and the sfpd, meaning, the station.

and every four weeks, via fax or e-mail two weeks before the end of the month, just done. >> i am sorry i had a hard time listening to the question because i was focused on the other one. i think that you drew a conclusion and i don't think that monte had a chance to respond. >> he stepped away from the microphone and so i would like to respond. he stepped away so that i could respond after you asked the next question. >> the incident involving the bus and it is unfortunate it happened for us on this weekend, because we were doing our best to not have any incidents, especially those that have been happening around the neighborhood. and we were, we were working vigilantly to prevent anything and we were keeping our best control over the conditions that are the reason why we are here and when the group exited and left to that party bus that is when we had the knowledge that they had arrived or we don't know if they did arrive on the party bus and there just happened to be an officer that was there as we were

approaching it, monte explained to me earlier that the guard that was out there, that was watching actually got on the ear piece to call him out and by the time that he was out there was a police officer that was already there. in the incident where it is being concluded that we didn't call the police, i think that the police were already present and they were particularly interested in monitoring us for the weekend. >> okay, and how about addressing the notification to the station? a 30 day calendar? >> so, originally we were e-mailing the 30 day calendar, but it is difficult and difficult to predict the 30 day calendar, when the events were schedule. they were easy for us to inform them of but we were working closely with the officer who we had a very, a very strong connection, close relationship with. and we informed them that the most active and information on all of our events would be kept

on our website and i believe that was the last communication that we gave to him. that the website would give him up to date information on what is happening as it is happening because it is our interest to market and promote the information. >> send me an e-mail and if an event got canceled or reschedule. >> i don't think that that is complying with the stipulation to tell the officer to look on the website. no. >> there is a certain amount of proactiveness, you are saying go and check it when you have time. the police and i and everyone around here is bombarded with things and it is up to you to make the extra effort to say here is the new list and it is canceled canceled keep the update and communication going. we spend a lot of time, and just for the commissioners here, if we could speed it up a little bit. because i think that we do want to evaluate the actual recommendation from the captain about the modification to the

permit. >> i am done. >> okay. >> commissioner lee? and then commissioner akers and hyde. >> you know, i think that we covered a lot already. that has been said. the thing is when these things, where are your incident reports? if these things are happening especially when there is, you know, people fighting in your club, there should be an incident report, at least given to the police, to the permit officer, and or even for us to have a copy of. so i mean, whether it protects you or whatever it takes your side of the story, you know, that is important. okay? and let me just say a few things and i don't want to go and address each one because we are on a time situation here. >> and as far as searching. okay? and i mean, you know that the place that i run and we search from day one. and i don't believe that public safety should be discarded because people are opposed of

not being searched. and so, my question is when the first incident obviously, when the captain started in the district, i mean, it is kind of like a clean slate, everything from before he does not know but now these things are coming up and so, my question is that when he starts searching these people, i mean your patrons and he just starts and was it something that was going on when you, know, the other captain was there? or are you just, you just said earlier that you just started doing it. what is the deal on that? >> we started probably down in march. >> in march. >> and we have had all of these incidents, well, january, march. okay, and so from march 25th on, you have been searching every night? >> correct. >> and what do you do when you see a large crowd coming up? and i get it, because party buses do park around the corner and unload. they do that. but, what is your procedure if you don't want to let them in?

i mean is there it... i mean a lot of these times and this is what we deal with, is they are drinking on the bus. and i am sure that there is one person or two people that are intoxicated and i want to know how you handle that. >> if they come up and one or two or a couple of people in the group look like they have been drinking already. we say to group these people are not going to be let in because they are drink already. >> and then, what happened at that point is the people have left or the whole group will leave. >> so, if, in fact, i mean it is kind of... okay. any way, we just... i mean it is a hard call. i mean but i am just saying as your security, it stops right there and what about close down? she said that you closed down at 1:30. could you explain to us how you close down >> we turn the house lights up

halfway at 1:25 that let's the bartenders to know to stop serving, and we do a soft push telling everyone that it is time to go at 1:40 and four guards inside and three are kind of you know the club is like a hallway and so we start in the back and we just pushing people out and so once all of pat trons are all and all seven of the guards are outside and pushing up to golden gate and vanness. >> and you are saying that once the crowd is completely out of your building, all of your guards are pushing them to their cars. >> that is correct. there has been, i can't even pinpoint a number, but, from they have stopped by at 1:30 and watched us clear the streets. >> how far do you go? >> it says 100 feet. but if there is still a big group of people we kind of have the guards at a distance telling people that it is time

to go home. >> what happens if they just loiter and they say that this is a public street and you can't push me? >> we generally stay outside until they are clear enough where it is not 100 feet. and they do that, to the fact that you have kind of this thing hanging over your head, would you feel uncomfortable to call a unit, like the non-emergency number and say that you have people that will not go home? >> if you check, i don't know if there is a log, but i personally was calling the not the emergency number, before the night saying, hey, we are expecting a big crowd, or there is a ball player, and if you could send a car around 1:30, 1:40, you know, and that would be great. you know, but i know that their focus is the polk corridor because there are thousands of people that congregate there when the clubs close. >> at that point, the conversation that i had with

dave was call and you know hopefully, they can support. >> yeah. >> and the last question, so when you have incident run by a promoter, what do you do with that promoter the next time? >> if we think that it is caused by the promotion of the promoter, we have asked them to take a break or we don't work with them any more. but all of the incidence to go back to what you said. i personally, i don't know the gentleman who replaced them, his name, because he has not introduced himself, but i would send fries and i would cc the captain, and advise when there was a serious thing ha happened. >> i mean, the deal is that it is not to call when there is a serious thing going on. what we are saying is

preventing future seriousness, so i am asking you if you have a bad promoter and let's just say regardless if it is influence from the outside, or you know, whatever, it is just a bad night. what, i just want to know what you do, what do you do then? >> that is a promoter get to come back? >> no. >> no, and to talk with, and to your question, and i don't know if i want to seem like i am putting the police on the spot. and there are times that we have called and we did not, or we don't get a car or you know, it is delayed, but you know, there is not one cop for each customer that we hit that. well, i mean there is places around the corner that does not have, you know, you are basically in the same block and they are not getting the or at least we don't have any documents and they are getting the calls that you are. and i am just saying that when you have an issue that you have

to do whatever you can because it is going to effect your business and right now and i am just saying that the people on the promoters list you are telling me that none of them have had incidents at your place? >> either ones that have it, like the serious ones that we have talked about? >> no. >> and have any of these promoters on that list have an incident? >> no. >> okay. >> well, i think that what he is saying is that we have not been able to, and in fairness to the promoter because we have these confrontations with them saying that there is weight being placed on our shoulders and the perception of the pd, and the entertainment commission that we are failing, and we we can't point to a promoter that says that you are bringing in a troubled crowd to cause a level of incidents.

it is not that we don't have that mechanism is that we can't blame them all of the time >> the thing is that we have the rights and if you want to close it down, on your own, and like you said, you told your promoters not to promote. and you don't have to have them promote. and if they are constantly causing you some grief, you could tell them to take a break for six months and they might come back and maybe they will do a better job and promoters are not an ideal situation. and but they do help us and i just use promoters as well but you have to control the promoters they make money from your venue as you make money from them. but have you to look at the environment that is the same environment for all of us, we call and we don't get response right away as well. but it is just the nature of what is going on at night.

but the thing is that you as a business have to figure out what can you do, so that you can run your business without getting the hassles and i am just suggesting or asking you if these promoters are having issues do we have policy of reprimand? >> i would like to move the discussion along. >> i think that what you are noticing that we are trying to figure out what is wrong with your business. you are telling us that you are doing your best and make modification and still not good enough and whether it is the security plan and how it is training, the hours, and your relief plan and party buses and there are so many things that go into running your club and we are trying to figure out and i don't know if we are satisfied necessarily with your understanding of how to better improve the situation. okay, no? >> i can just, yeah.

>> okay. so i am just going to take the public comment now, because there may be people that are concerned about this in the public. besides ourselves. could i ask you one question, i mean, it sounds like you have done a lot of good faith in trying to work with the police and come up with resolutions as things arise, would you be willing to voluntarily suspend yourself for a period of time, 30 days or a month, to reassess how you run your business? we have had other problem night clubs in the past that have come here and done that and have really turned around their operations. so that is something that you could offer and i am curious if that is something that you would consider. >> and i think that it is something that we could consider. i mean, it is something that we

will have to consider. one of the difficulties from the business side we have certain nights where i think that we can isolate that there are difficulty because of the direction of where the crowds are coming from. and i think that caping the hours of entertainment to midnight is effectively closing us down and in fact i would say that it is effectively closing us down. and trying to limit our night, or our nights of operation, to two days a week would be must better for us to refocus and take a moment of suspension, because it will have less of an impact on the neighborhood but it will allow us to keep our doors open and i think that taking a period of closure might detriment the parts of the business that we bring. >> is that a yes or no? >> that we are open to making a submission to close down to a certain period. >> yes, you will consider a self-imposed suspension for 30 days? >> well, >> no operation for 30 days at

all. >> would you... >> no? >> the entertainment commission is considering an entertainment permit only. >> i am sorry. >> closure is inappropriate. >> i mean close down your entertainment for 30 days.>> yo. >> yeah. >> i mean, no dj music. >> understood. >> yes. it is difficult to say, just knowing that it might not be lead towards our doors remaining closed. >> you could reassess your business and come up with a better plan. or a more workable plan and it will give you time to think about what you can do to make your business viable and better. i mean, it might help you actually. >> understood. >> i think that we would be willing to discuss that, if that was the, if that was

something that we could also get the communication back from the people involved in helping us make that decision. >> we would like to work with people and we would like to keep the communication going. >> but yes, we would consider it. >> all right, thank you for answering that question. and let's take the public comment, is there any public comment on this item and thank you to all of the permit applicants for waiting patiently. >> my name is alicia holland and i am a property manager for a building, and i have been instrumental and active in trying to previously work with them and the commission with noise complaints. and i have filed two complaints against noble and talked to the police department. excuse me. so, i witnessed two shootings at noble, and absolutely horrified that i have to look