for this. >> could i get clarification on the security. >> commissioner, just say that the security was not a condition on the permit? >> it is. >> it is. >> i said that he had to have security. and and i just have one comment, because i just, and as a suggestion, my concern is the neighbors specifically in this building have not been notified either in person, or through a flier, or through a mailer that you can send specifically to this building. because it can be kind of a shock, to one day, wake up even if it is ten a.m. on a saturday or a sunday morning when someone is trying to sleep and there is amplified sound. and particularly when it is going to be followed by, several months of construction noise.

so. >> and that is a really good point. >> and so i agree with you, you need to figure out how you are going to contact the people under that particular building that is really important. >> all right, let's take it to a vote. >> let me just make sure that we have the motion, correct, here. so this is to approve this permit for one week. and with a no continuance, and the following conditions, downloaded dba meter, db meter. actively find someone to be security. >> yes. >> and the hours will be sunday through thursday from ten a.m. to 8:30 p.m. and friday and saturday from 10 a.m. to 9 p.m. and to send a calendar of the events and programming to the entertainment commission and the police department. ; is that correct?. >> that is correct. >> okay on that motion. akers? >> aye. >> hyde. >> aye. >> joseph. >> aye. >> lee. >> aye. >> campagnoli. >> aye.

>> and president tan? >> aye. >> so moved. >> good luck to you. >> all right. >> and with that the motion passes. >> and let's move on to the next item. and which is barry ward doing business as ear wurm studios at 2010 bryant street for a limited live performance. and so take it away. >> earwurm studio ss a smul rehearsal facility in the mission district. they mostly have rehearsal space and recording studio and film and photography and they would like the ability to be flexible and to host the live and screenings at their space and because this is accessory to the main function of the space and not expected to go past ten p.m. and that is why we chose the limited live performance of the permit and normally what the permit for a restaurant and or a art gallery or something like that and we felt that this was the most

important permit for this space and with that, here is mr. ward. i asked you a question for clarification. because maybe i don't remember and in the limited live legislation, does it specifically say, restaurant and pub or bar. >> no. it does not. >> we have used it at our galleries. >> okay, that is what i thought. >> okay, thanks. >> great. over a small multimedia, facility, and we offer photography and audio services and the business is not boom and we are also double our wall as a movie theater and we built a sound system and all of the walls are heavily sound proofed and the intent was to keep the recording services sound out and not going outside, but also, be or have one neighbor, and he has never complained once. and all of the other neighbors are landlord which is two houses over and, then for the services across the street and

other than that, there is nobody around to annoy. we have a mechanics behind us and we have a firm right next to us that closes at six and the restaurant that closes at 3:00, and so, we have had some nightly movie events and we personally have had no complaints from neighbors whatsoever and so we started to invite the people in and so we had the people and interested in the know case and some of their film l but they are always like could we charge something in the door, i put a lot of time and effort into the film but we need to charge something. we can't really do that. we have been offering the free nights just to test the waters and we are getting the low interest and we have one friend that works at at the sffilm society and he has been hosting tuesday night and he is there right now. and so he was interesting if we

could charge at the door because it is a nice space and the people have a good time there and we are trying to make comfortable and we can seat maybe 30 people, if that, it is a small space and so we are thinking that the limited live performance would be a full room. and we have not had a full packed house yet, we have had maybe 20 people. and so, i petitioned all of the neighbors and i have them right here if you would like to read it to you if you like. this is probably across the street. and what i wrote to them was, hello neighbors, we are here, a small multi, facility and, we are applying for a permit with the city of san francisco it has been advised that we reach out to the neighbors to let you know our attentions and address any concerns that you may have. >> you can just pass that to us, and we can read it just to

save the time. we appreciate you getting those. >> i have a question for you, will you be serving any food or beverage, whether it is alcohol or not? >> we don't have the kitchen there, and we have a small little bar area and, we have a microwave. >> what do you serve over the bar? >> what do you serve over the bar? >> we have not served anything? >> we have had private events >> we would like to serve the soda and snacks that are prepackaged. it has not been on our agenda. so my question to the staff is, is the limited live permit constrained as a poe is constrained to venues that have food? and beverage? or food or beverage? isn't that how we grant permits? so, if this place does not have food, or beverage, that they

sell or provide, are they can we actually give them a permit? and so in discussion with mr. ward, previously in discussing how we were going to figure out how to permit this, he said that you know, that they might have packaged food or beverage. that sort of thing and that is how we arrived. >> that they would charge for or not charge for? >> yeah. that they would charge for. >> yeah. >> and so, i don't know how that works does it have to go to the health department? >> even if it is prepackaged. >> because, actually, and i just want some clarification on it. can we grant a permit if they do not serve food or beverage or food and beverage? >> yes. >> we can. >> if they are charging, if they are charging admission, for entertainment, then yes. >> okay. >> thank you. >> could i just... i think that this is a compliance issue, and just to get them into the permit. because they have been running

programming. what is out of compliance that they were charging? >> i think that proerj *f originally what happened was that we had an inspector who stopped by and thought that they may have been out of compliance. we had a discussion, and at first we thought that maybe you don't need a permit and then, the more that mr. ward thought about it and he thought, you know i do want to take advantage of this opportunity, again, limited live means that this is an accessory use to the main function, so his main function is a multimedia studio, regarding studio, and rehearsal space but he wants the ability and flexibility to be able to do this extra stuff. >> got it. >> and besides the movies we also had a couple of small events with the acoustic bands and they need to be compensated with the efforts. we actually had a band drive up and they did not get paid a dime and i felt bad about that but i could not charge. >> how large is the space? the actual event area?

>> 1,000 square feet. maybe less. >> and it is not huge. >> the actual space is less than 200 square feet. which was reading in the permits it is basically an area where we do our photography and it doubles as a movie theater and a tiny stage. >> we do have rehearsal recording studio in the back and small parties where the bands play and it has been fine, but we have, basically, had no trouble at all. and our neighbor, is a painter and he has been nothing but supportive and our landlord is two houses down and keeps us in check and fully supportive and i petitioned all of the neighbors and we are not going to be doing anything other than we are doing. >> we are going to move on to commissioner hyde. >> any other comments or questions for mr. ward? >> well, i mean, i think that it is a good effort, because you know there is a lot of these musician studios, and you know, they sometimes do these after hour parties and things

and you know and now he is trying to come forward and legitimatize his position and i think that you know, i think that it is a good thing. >> and okay. all right. go ahead and have a seat. >> okay. >> could i give you these petitions >> yeah, please hand them over. >> thank you. >> are there any police? >> i could have them. >> and if he came by. >> and i do have one question. and when did you file this, when did you start doing this? did he ever get up to the neighborhood out reach packet that was... >> no. >> it was before. >> okay. >> all right. >> you can have a seat. >> thank you. >> officer parker? or anyone else from the police department? >> hi, i was first and then you

guys bumped me. all right, so, my question to the entertainment commission, initially when i got this permit request was the same as mr. joseph's which is do they qualify? because, there seem to be more and more venues coming forth that want llp that in my opinion don't fit the 1060 lp, guidelines. i was guided to, or by the directors that indeed they do, because it is secondary to their primary purpose, which i don't see that being secondary, i mean they make movie and they make music and so they want to show movie and play music, and i don't see how that is secondary. but that aside, there was the issue of food and or beverage or food and beverage and i

didn't see that either. but, that aside, i was told that they are going to serve food or beverage. that is their plan any way, when you show movies, the bar, as he had mentioned not having served any alcohol there, i am sure that byob function and food brought as well. so, given all of the things that i was informed, i thought, okay, well, great, then, here are my conditions. which are no different than any other conditions i have asked for and that is the fourth one being compliance with abc laws which is that no if it is going to be a byob situation that they don't bring in under aged drinking, specifically. and that is pretty much the only difference, the article 29, and the police code and if the sound complaints are received that they turn it down to an agreed upon level and the

sufficiently, staff their events, but, i am certainly no less confused about the guidelines of what an llp, who gets into it. and who does not. >> so... >> i think that any fixed place venue can get an llp. if, i am trying, and i am reading 1060 now to try to get that out and i said, for our purposes, and any fix the place venue can get an llp if they serve food, beverage, food or beverage. or charge admission at the door. >> or charge admission. >> i am looking for that here, and i am still looking for it. and so i would love to... >> and so i kind of am wondering because i know that i give it to the art galleries and i don't think that the art galleries serve or charge, and

you know. >> they have wine. and they give it away. they serve,... and so you can have just something like that. >> what about the soda. >> it is a beverage. >> and didn't he just tell us that he was willing to do that? >> yeah. >> but the point is, if he doesn't do it now, he is willing to do it to get a permit. if he does not need a permit, why would he do it? do you see it? >> this is what i think and i am hearing. and you know, the difference between making movies is when is the studio showing the movies is a theater house. recording sound on to a dvd is a recording studio, and having a live band is a performance space and it is not the same thing, and it is, the same family as it were. but to me, i don't think that they have been doing this and what i see in the city is a lot of pressure on musicians, and places like this, to find ways to stay open as developers come

in and read develop our city, which we are seeing a lot of right now. and i think that the reason that he is doing this, is because he wants to stay afloat and he is willing to make changes to do that. >> okay. can i read this to everybody? >> this definition number ksection 1060. and it says, a place of entertainment which would also go for limited live, every premise to which patrons or members of the public are admitted, which serves food, beverages or food and beverages, included but not limited to alcoholic beverages for consumption on the premises and where an entertainment as defined in subsection g. so, it does not say a word about admission, charging admission, so far. >> so this is just, so the food

and the beverage. >> because if you don't charge admission, you still need an entertainment permit if you serve soda. >> i think that the spirit of the limited live any way was for the restaurant to do happy hour and they don't usually charge. >> but they charge for the drinks. >> the food component of course, helps the business, make, you know, extra money. and you know, if a studio like this, and we could put, as a condition, i guess, is that they have to serve the food to be in compliance and so selling soda and food, and you know, and then there being transparent and then at least we know that that space if they are going to start charging and having parties there and at least there is regulation. >> you know? and you know with the sound check and they can't go and be on a certain limit just like anything else. and we could go from there. >> i, would be reluctant to

grant a permit if a permit is not required. >> i am sorry. >> i will be reluctant to grant a permit, if a permit is not required. it is like giving a driver's license to a 3-year-old. i mean, if it is not required, why are we doing it? >> i mean if you don't need a permit to do what he is doing, why would we grant a permit? because, when you grant a permit, even the limited live you charge a fee. when you charge a fee for a permit that is not needed, i mean what is that? i kind of feel like i need the city attorney to answer this question. because i am not sure, how to define whether they actually need a permit. >> yeah, because i am, i think that otherwise, you are charging a fee for a permit that he does not need in the first place. >> right. >> and go ahead. >> i share your opinion. i don't think that it qualifies.

>> okay the reason that he wanted to have a permit was to come into compliance. he wanted to be able to charge admission because he was presenting entertainment. >> i can't find anywhere and if mr. renny is in the audience and there are other people here, i cannot find the admission charge and there are a lot of sections to this and maybe i am missing it. >> 1060 g. >> g. >> okay. let me see. gone. >> g1. it does say entertainment. >> yes. >> so technically all of the entertainment needs to come to

us. if they are offering entertainment. >> they need to be licensed otherwise there is nobody looking over how loud the entertainment goes and the out reach and that sort of thing. >> that is why we are here. >> i disagree and let me tell you why i disagree. and so, g, definds what entertainment is. >> k, however, definds what a place of entertainment is. so that is different. a place of entertainment is different than what entertainment is. and reciting poetry could be considered entertainment. but, up to, give up a premise for a place of entertainment and what are we talking about what is entertainment? is actually k. now, i may be totally wrong and i may not be understanding this. but, >> i will just saying, that is how we have been operating and

if someone is presenting entertainment and it is open to the public and the people are paying money to enter and to experience that entertainment they had to get a permit. and that is just been what we have done so far. how do you stick with something that is not in the code. >> we are giving permits where permits may not be required. and i think that this commission operations under 1060, and 70, and all of these, and i would like at some point if it is okay with the applicant is to continue this and get an opinion from the

city attorney. it is unclear to me by reading this. just because you have been doing this in practice it does not mean that it falls in the code. >> i am just going to say that also you go further in and you get to q, and r, and it is limited live and this is not, and we are not offering an entertainment permit, per se, and we are offering a limited live permit, which has different guidelines and i don't see, food and beverage, and things like that, associated with the limited live. >> it is the r, number 5. >> yes. >> right here. >> yeah. >> then the question is, do they have to be doing that previously to the application? or is it something that they can do once they get the permit. >> well, technically they are in compliance once they get the permit. but i think that there are folks out there doing this without the permit and until we

get more permit officers out there to, or not the permit officers but inspecters, out there to regulate it, it is a little hard to enforce. but that said we do have an applicant here who has as we actually applied for this knowing the conditions that are placed on it and was willing to pay the fee, and regardless if he is going to do this every day or just on an occasional basis. i don't know if anyone has formed an opinion yet, but i am happy to take the public comment while you think about it. and we can discuss again. >> officer, parker, do you believe that there are reasons that they would not comply to or do you feel that they are someone who is worthy of a permit? i mean you seem to think that they are trying to be above board and they seem like... >> well, when i first, like when i said i first got the application and i was trying to

get clarification on whether or not they qualified, i went and i visited with mr. barry. and i looked at the space, and you know, i had questions about, you know, occupancy and safety, and egress. and he as the commissioner already told you. had already been having events. and was seen by an inspector and so it was told to come into compliance. and so i, i asked him, that in the meantime, while we are waiting for this hearing date to comply with the conditions that are not set forth yet because that will only be in his best interest. that is to say that if you were going to hold events up to this date that he do it until ten p.m. and not exceed that. and not-to-exceed his capacity which i believe is 49 and those

sorts of things and he voluntarily, you know, has done that. he emailed me events. and i completely believe that this man is going to play by the rules and i just for my own knowledge, i just sometimes i am unclear as to who gets hes permit and who does not, it is not a question for me of whether or not mr. ward will play within the guidelines of the permit. because i believe that he will. >> and i am just going to ask your opinion, do you as an opinion, after reviewing this, do you feel that it warrants a limited live permit? >> if people, if the public is going into this space, and they are going in to see entertainment, i think that the

guidelines are set up for a place that serves food and or beverage. so he has to be able to do that. what is the point of the guidelines. and if we all don't go by what the 1060 and the 1070 say, why is it there? >> and i think, that to answer. every place that has entertainment, whether they serve, or charge an admission or don't. that is private. because this is a private place and they would also need one. so, this is above my pay grade. >> and i just wonder. >> and i have a question. >> or i have something to say. >> if you look at with the

zoning city planning sent back, and do you see that? it is the one just before officer parker's where the purple post-it is. and we know one of the planners, and i don't know who that is, said recommend approval of the limited live performance as an accessory use, the use must operate in conformance, with police code section 1060. >> right. >> and so now it has been brought to our attention that this place might not be and it is only because the applicant does not necessarily want to serve food or beverage,; is that correct?? >> he said, that he would like that option. >> okay. >> but it is not an option. >> he would like the permission. >> he has to do it now. >> that is the point.

>> but he is not currently doing this. >> but ... >> he does not need a permit. >> so it is not an option, and it is pretty clear, i think that it is very clear in the code. so serve something and you are probably get your permit. you don't, you don't get your permit. i mean, this is... >> if you don't, you would not get slapped on the wrist for not serving drinks you just have a permit for no reason. >> you don't need a permit. >> you could have a band and not have a permit. >> but he could not serve the drinks and food and make money on that. >> he also could not give them away either. >> he could not give nem away. >> everybody will be thirsty. >> he needs to make some money and charge a cover or sell the

food. >> no. >> we are telling him. >> it is sound. >> this is not in the spirit of limited live, this is strictly, okay, let me try to be clear. this is strictly, whether the code as it is stated requires this man in his present mode of operation, which does not serve any food or beverage or give it away even needs a permit tha. is my question. and so, i don't know if you did do public comment yet? >> no. >> do it so i can make a motion. >> okay. >> let's take public comment. >> (inaudible) this is real a doozy, but for someone who was there from the start, here is

how i look at it and i think that a lot of these parts are really well taken. one is the legislation for limited live was created because there were people who were playing music and they had no permit and you had galleries, restaurants, and places that had primary functions and we wanted an enhancement and we also did not want to have to pay the $2,000 fee, which made it cost prohibitive for many people and so how i kind of look at it and i am looking at it like the police officer looks at it in this regard. what is the primary function. and the limited live in the accessory use, and so unless you establish a primary function and that means that if it is going to be an eatery and it meets all of the requirements of the health department and he can have the music as an accessory use and

then if he wants to make the music a primary use and then he will need a poe because it would be to charge, for people to come in. and so, the question, is, should we permit this? or not permit this? ? and i think at this point in time, i don't think that you can permit something, that is going to function in one way, and when it is an accessory use. okay? and so, i don't think that you can permit this. and you need to give it to the city attorney and maybe continue it. >> thank you. >> any other public comment? >> i am flabergasted by this conversation, frankly. let's go back, inspector edwards goes out there like a cowboy riding through the night and handing out citations, correct? and this poor guy is told that