occasion i hope that my kid behalfs himself better than last year. >> we are accepting nominations for the employee for the quarter, for quarter four which ends at the end of this calendar year and so send in your nomination to william no later than december 13 and this we will announce the letter at the big meeting and congratulations to kristina wo ng and our quarter one winner, sarah lou and our quarter two winner and sonja or quarter three winner. and that concludes my president's announcements. >> is there any public comment on the president's announcements? and seeing none, item 3 general public comment. >> the bic will make public comment on matters in the commission jurisdictions that are not part of this agenda. >> no general public comment?

>> and we are moving on to item four. >> madam before, and madam before we move on to item four commissioner walker requests that some adjustments of the commissioner walker do you want to suggest what you want to do here and if it is okay with the fellow commissioners we will proceed to that point. >> yes, i would like to move up our commission discussion of number of item 11. discussion concerning whether dbi should adopt a new policy regarding intake and response of cold violation complaints and it is just a discussion. and then maybe if we could leave public comment open in case someone comes later in the meeting thinking that it was on the calendar. i want to accommodate the housing staff who is here to represent the department. >> so if there is no objections and wear in mind if somebody who was coming here has been based later on in the calendar that we will open up the public comment to that question if

that works for everybody. and if there are no objections we can do that madam secretary. >> i would like to acknowledge that commissioner melgar has joined us. >> so, with that then. >> we will start with item eleven? >> yes >> item eleven, discussing concerning whether dbi should adopt a new policy regarding intake and response of anonymous code violation and complaints. good morning commissioners, and i am already the deputy director of the services. and the discussion concerning the dbi should adopt the new policy we are just looking at options for this right now, currently we get complaints on 311, from the internet, on the phone. and a lot of times it is hard

to know the source of the complaint and it can be anonymous and when the complaints are made they are made in all directions and they are complaints from one complaint, complaints from everyone. and so sometimes it is difficult to assimilate these complaints because sometimes they come in all directions. so what is the policy, i mean... >> right now we take complaints anonymous. >> through the phone and through the internet and through 311. and for the counter and we make a complaint and we investigate the complaint and we try to investigate the complaint within the response time. >> so we don't handle it. >> right now we are taking the anonymous complaint. >> commissioner walker. >> i think that a lot of the interest in this is coming from

the issue that we hear sometimes of the units and the concern that i think from our department's division is that there is housing, people's housing at stake in this process. so but i also, i mean that it has got to be weighed against the concern for the people to be able to complain without the fear of retaliation. and so, maybe if i could just say that as a concern for me, too. that often times, tenants are fearful of being retaliated against, if they issue complaints about ha bitbility and such. so, i would want to have a situation where that is addressed somehow. >> well, it is not hear on this today, just so you know. >> okay, thanks. >> i will try to make it. >> fine. >> so you can fill in?

>> yeah. >> commissioners any more questions before i get into my thing? >> what would, you know, as the commissioner mar and i, we are always, what would this mean if would you say and this is probably an unfair question, but, if you were to choose a policy where you, you know you had to put your name forward if you were to make a complaint do you thaifrng it reduce our nov intake? >> i think that it would commissioners. >> you could not say how much? or >> it will be hard to estimate that. >> yeah. >> and go ahead. >> and well, we have been looking at what other cities do. and remember, that we were here a couple of months ago. and we had this whole part which shows all of the actions that we take, yeah. >> compared to other cities. >> and one of the cities that we looked at was the city of

cincinnati. and i had to make the pass around here, sonja? >> okay. >> and the city of cincinnati gets that exactly what commissioner walker was talking about. they screen their anonymous complaints so, they have certain complaints that they will accept that are anonymous and they have others that they will not accept. >> when we did the survey we noted that there are five cities, and among the top 25 cities in america that do not accept any anonymous complaints. san diego, phoenix, charlotte, north carolina, chicago and

elpaso. cincinnati accepts the anonymous complaints this is only for the housing inspection, exterior buildings, public stairways or hallways, public elevators. and vacant buildings, and yards or vacant lots. trees, swimming pool enclosures. etc.-and then, they do not accept anonymous complaints from the interiors of dwelling units and basements and lack of the second egress and the illegal apartments which is something that has been in the news lately and overcrowding. so, you know, there are people that call housing inspection when they need help. but there are also people who call when they don't like their neighbors. many call anonymously and expect us to force the neighbors out of their homes. i mean, i have seen people

screaming, crying, hurling racial epitets two-minute call or an e-mail can lead to an eviction or a wild goose chase and often there is little information to go on. so if you look at the second page, the procedure that dan and i both went over, and with rose mary and the housing inspector. and we also had some neighborhood or some community groups, that were very interested in this, too. and this would, this would just apply for housing inspection. and then, this one says anonymous complaints are to be accepted for heat and hot water and apartment buildings and hotel, lead paint removal work

practices. common areas of our two occupancy and two unit buildings including stairways and elevators, lack of or defective means of egress and imminent hazards. and then, the second part of the proposal would be anonymous complaints would not be accepted for interiors of units neighbor dispute and illegal occupancy and overcrowding. so, we will see this as a screening procedure, that could really greatly reduce a lot of the agony and the abuse that we see out in the field. commissioner mar? >> thank you for bringing these forward. i think that these are good examples just to compare. i will just, i had a question about what about the complaints

where it is a building? where it is an illegal building and if not, tenant generated? ... >> if you are talking about a commercial? >> yeah, or a remodel and a new construction where there is no. >> that would not be changed that would continue the same as it is now because those will go to the building inspection and code. >> that is right. >> right, i am talking about the building and inspection site, do you have any idea of how to deal with those? there are a lot of anonymous complaints and those two come from neighbors and the people from down the street who will see something happening and there are no permits posted or they feel like there are permits posted but it is beyond the scope of work. >> whenever there is a complaint now on the building, if it is exceeded in the scope of the remodel or the building used we send the district inspection out and we look at what permits there are on the building and permit of the building itself and go to verify it in the field. >> okay.

>> so this is verifiable, and then, we continue to process, but if it is not, we drop it. >> but if it looks like it is in the scope of the permit and what it is approved for, we amend the complaint. and if it looks like it is for the further investigation that needs to be done and we investigate it. >> thank you. >> commissioner walker? >> the housing folks, can you give us some examples or an idea of how often it happens that the last group comes to you like the ones that we are talking about, that will not be accepted? >> yeah, we get, well, let me show you the numbers that we do have. and i think that i gave them to sonja. >> yeah.

>> and here they are. push >> it does that. >> we get about 1,000 a year. anonymous complaints >> people call and they are aggressive with us and they are anonymous. >> and when you go out, do these situations present health and safety issues? or is it just... >> i mean, that i find that the ones that do, that we do see a lot of the help and safety

issues, those people leave their names and contact numbers and want us to go in and they are not anonymous. >> if you could, weigh in, thank you for coming, i know that you had a tough day getting here and it was not easy, i appreciate it. >> and the safety that you made since the operating procedure has cut out all of the commissioners and this looks like a nice constructive way to approach this issue, if you could weigh in, and maybe, maybe if you have the legality of it and so on, i want to be sure that this is something that i can put in place and stand behind it. >> thank you, commissioner, rose mary, chief housing inspector. and i have had, and i have not, and i have reached out to mari and i have been able to talk to him about this but i am confident that something, that this is doable. because it allows us to, on a good safe, basis to make

attempts to ask the property owner to let us in and if they are not going to and we cannot say that there is a history of the building or a permit history or through an exterior inspection of the building, and then at that particular point in time we really don't have a good faith basis to promote or if there are some other pattern in that community, we don't have a good faith basis to proceed to ask for an inspection warrant because we don't have probable cause and now the standard in the building code, by the state, to the building official is, a reasonable belief but in a situation like this, we can't get in and a lot of times when we get in the things are changed from maybe what they were. but we think that this is a fairly good way of going where it does allow us a process by which we are making a good faith effort and we can then

hone out those particular cases where we are spending a lot of time and we are not getting to utilize the safety has ards and jaime just shows you for the last five years that we get about 1,000 give or take about 1,000 anonymous complaints a year and in total we get around 3,000 and a little more and a little less and that is about a third of the complaints that we get that were putting a tremendous amount of resources in, trying to play, you know this game of trying to get access and generally running and it is pivotal, and it is the situation where the occupant wants to come in and they have charge of the premises and this particular model at some point down the line we are going to cock back to you and expand this to other types of complaints as well and maybe that are dealing with the other divisions where they are having to spend a lot of time and resources on anonymous complaints and they are finding the same type of thing going on. so we feel that, a process by

which the property owner gets adequate notification and we have made a good faith attempt in writing and we are trying to get in and if at that point the property owner says no and we have nothing else to corroborate this and i think that we should close these case and move on to the next type of case where we can gain assess because we certainly have those. and as i have mentioned before that a lot of the code enforcement tools have deter ated by no action on the part of the city and county of san francisco. and ie ftb referrals and to the criminal citations and that is more face time and that will allow us more quality time to be able to get the response and the out come that we want and actually stream lining the process and doing it in a way that is fair and gives the adequate notification. commissioner walker? >> when you get an anonymous complaint and there is no access provided by the owner of

the building, it is harder to get action from a court if it is anonymous? i mean if there is someone on record as filing the complaint even if they don't let you in for this reason? can you still present that to the court for a warrant and warrant entry? is it more, is there a stronger argument if there is a name attached to the complaint? actually, commissioners that is a very, very good question from this standpoint that we found ourselves. and when we intake the complaint, what we are going to put on the screen for you, are the interogatories that the staff ask the person who are making the anonymous complaint and we are trying to get that profile, but we have been doing this in the housing section for a number of years. so these all of these

questions, thank you. are the types of things that we ask the person, we want to know what they observed and what makes them think that there is some kind of illegal work going or whatever and are they willing to sign a declaration and are they willing to give their name? what doing here is trying to establish some kind of a problem paibl cause to give the official belief to go in or to request the warrant. a lot of times unfortunately we are asking these questions, but we get a minimum amount of information, the person does not want to give us their name and sometimes they will not tell us how and they cannot articulate how they have been in the unit and that leaves them to conclude because of how it is impacting them. and that there may be an illegal use going on and a lot of those cases they may already have legal rooms down stairs. that have been approved by the planning department. as far as the density is concerned and their matrix as far as doing that. and so we spent, a tremendous

amount of time trying to get into these buildings and all that we are basically saying is that we would like to have a situation at a certain point in time through the process, that ends that we will be able to close the case and move on to the next one and otherwise they will just sit out there open and they zap our resources and this is what we don't want to do, we want to be able to get to the occupants in the building and the property owners that need the help. and then put that on top of the fact that the boiler is going in a completely different direction with the illegal units saying that they see these as affordable housing and would like us to, and would like the city to approve these and we had the situation where we were before them in august with the lean program and we had to all pull all of the cases off because the board did not want to approve putting those on the tax bill. and so we see the board going in a different direction as well. and so that also is to us that

we want to be as efficient as possible with this and you know, at any point in time, anybody could make a complaint and we are going to give it the good faith effort because not even one does not ask all of these questions and so the thing there is that i am also getting a lot of 311 cases and relays to us and we have to take the information that they have gotten and put that in the system and it is not a live feed, and again, this would, and that would limit that so that we could give the 311 people the better information as well as to the type of complaint that we are taking in. >> so the 311 will take the complaint and no, like call back and then you just have to follow up on it without them getting anything. >> unfortunately the information that they have needs to be updated and that was kind of the policy of the previous director. where right now, what we would need to do is meet with them again and give them more updated information and it is only as good as what we tell them and so from that standpoint what is happening

right now, as you get further away from the source the information is sketchy and so when we get the information to us on a spread sheet we have to take that information because we are not talking to that individual and the contact and i... that does not mean that we don't believe in a 24 hour service to be able to do that. it is just that the reality of it for us in responding to those complaints, is that we have the more sketchy information and we are putting that in the complaint tracking system and when it is an anonymous complaint and we will have little to go on and that is a chunk of those as well and i would say that percentage wise it is about a third and it will be similar and even more. so, this is a tremendous amount of resources probably, type and inspector type dealing with this. >> a lot of on this 311 complaints a lot of time it

gets bad for so many hands by the time it gets to us sometimes the information is deviated and the room number is deviated and they are getting it... >> i can see that. >> thank you. >> so, obviously, and this will be back to rose mary sorry to bring you up there and i think based on the presentation we would have support from the commission on this. and so back to you, how would the goal of the next meeting to vote on this and implement this? and commissioner walker? >> i just, i would love to see this go before our cot folks who deal with a lot of complaints and make sure that they are addressing concerns that they have and maybe having it reflected in what the

recommendation is. they deal a lot with people and i think that part of our code enforcement out reach program is aimed at the very issue of people being fearful of making complaints. so i just want to make sure that they are on board. >> absolutely commissioner. we have reached out to them on this we will be more than happy to do it before it gets finalized. >> that was definitely also, within the consideration of their concerns with how this was developed. >> okay, great. >> so procedurely, what would have to be done to put this in place and make it a part of the housing? >> it will be the building officials and the director would then want to finish his analysis of it and at that particular point, if there are any changes that we would want to make, and again, let you know and then he has the power to go ahead and implement this at any time. >> so in our next meeting, if you could come back to us for example with all of the stake holders, you know, out reaching and confident that they are

okay with it. and give us, you know, give us a more bullet proof and this is, you know... >> yeah. >> and then we will vote on it and then by the end of the year, the director could implement this. city attorneys win, and maybe that is my change. >> go ahead. >> john, from the city attorney's office. initially, this is not a matter that the building inspection commission has any authority to enact. so you can receive all of the reports that you want from the department, but this is a decision of the director. so you can get status updates, and kind of figure out the tenor of things through that. and i also just point out, that there are various local state and federal privacy laws, that

someone should the department should sort of work more thoroughly with the city attorney's office to see, you know, even though this might feel like a good policy, there might, and it might raise legal issues and i see that the city in cincinnati has something, but, you know, the privacy laws in ohio or the city of cincinnati may be different from the sunshine laws and other things. so, we are happy to work with staff to see if there is some way to accomplish the policy aims of this, that are also legally supportable. >> can that be done in the month to get the position on that? >> i think so. if the staff with our office and put behind the man power to see if we can work something out. >> first of all i would like to

commend you all for thinking outside of the box for the kind of communication that we had in the last year and novs are particularly important and everybody, we want to try to come up with strategies to reduce these. i think that this is a really good strategy in going forward to do this and i would like to see it

someone on the outside complaining about a building they will not be able to have access to the building. but they, and you will have to decide how to handle that and the second thing or point that i want to make is how about repeated anonymous complaints that wastes a lot of resources do we say that we have a

complaint on this building and every subsequent complainer we will tell them that we have it and we are not going to investigate further until the first one is solved. how do we handle that? >> if you get 30 complaints on this one building and they are all anonymous are you going to investigate all 29? i mean that is something to think about. >> sorry commissioner melgar? >> i just have a question, what is the role of the c-o-p, folks in this new system? so in my experience, it is never the case that somebody goes to one of the c-o-p agencies and remains anonymous and there is much more of a hands on relationship and so i would think that it would be desirable if somebody will, you know, want to remain anonymous as commissioner lee was just talking about that you would then refer them to one of the agencies and maybe, follow, the process that way. because you know that they

would get advice and, you know, information about the process and all of that much more and i am wondering if you could just sort of write them in, in terms of the process, so that we know. >> we could definitely, memorialize that in the policies. we actually do that now. and in a situation where there is occupant of the building and they don't want to give us the name and they can give us access and in charge to be able to do that, we work with them to do that. that is all part of trying to get access in those situations where you know, they have actually seen the unit, etc., whatever the issue is. where they don't want to come forward and it may be something else, then we refer them to out reach, so that perhaps, the complaint can be a referral for one of those agency and that happens frequently and on a situation where we get the

repeated complaints of say, illegal units and we have to use the same criteria and that is, you can have one person be angry with a property owner who keeps making these complaints but it also depends upon the same set of criteria which is what we have to use, for purposes of getting a warrant and that is, what is the history of the building? what is our history been with the building and what is the permit history say and what is alleged and what information do we have? and what is the exterior of the building telling us and what is the complainant telling us? so weighing all of those things together, if it is the same information and it is skanty then we make our attempt and then in a situation like that, if we are not really given much information, then it may be that it is appropriate to close that case. just depends upon, evaluating each of these cases. >> there is criteria set in the