26 percent. >> make sure that the grand jury gets that report. will you? >> okay. >> that is very good. i think that is a very good statistics and i think that we are getting there. >> we are trying very hard. >> the staff are trying very hard and the housing and everybody is paying close attention to this. >> and a lot of these novs are just housekeeping. >> that is correct. >> well done. >> and if i could just add the report that we did for a monthly statistics show that we have abaited a lot of cases and our, and we are in a significant increase in the amount of inspections, because the 7 new inspecters are now in the districts a couple of months and writing notices of violations quite frequently and so we are trying to keep on top

of all of them. >> thank you. >> there are no more commissioners comment? >> is there any public comment on item eight? >> see none, item 9, discussion of how fees and penalty are assessed for the dbi enforcement actions under the building, electrical plumbing and mechanical and housing codes. >> and the deputy director of the apartment services and i have been asked to give you an overview of how and what we assess. as far as penalties. with bid, plumbing electrical and building inspection and there are three kinds of assessments that can happen and there is the ones that you are familiar with and the nine times penalty for work without a building permit and i would like to add that we are the

only jurisdiction in california that charges the 9 times the penalty. and that is if you absolutely have no building permit, at all, that is what, that is what we assess on you. the second one that you are probably fairly aware of is, beyond the scope of a building permit. and so, for instance, you have got you are supposed to do a foundation, only, and we go out there and we see that you are doing the foundation, but you have a little bit of an addition going on and you have an extra kitchen, or something like that. those penalties are assessed at times two. and the third one that is not talked about too much, we get them every year and not that many thank god. is for the fires, floods, land slides, cars in the buildings, act of god. and most of those we get called out through the fire department

sometimes the police department sometimes the dpw. there is no penalties for those. we issue a notice of violation, usually unsafe building. a lot of them we call unsafe building because the car goes into a building and it takes out three or four studs and it is more of a fix it ticket and so there are the three notices. in the building code, it or how that is how we assess them. and on the third floor, where the building, plumbing and electrical, they, issue a notice of violation and the building code does not give any specific time to, like, for instance, you put in the inlaw, or you put in the three windows and you must have a permit in 30 days it does not do that and we give them reasonable time and the reason that we do that

it is so vast that it could be someone built a building without a permit and not going to get one for two years or if you do a demolition, you could be in planning for the next three or four years. if you do work to historical building and you alter it, you might never get a permit and as a matter of fact if you get complaints from the neighbors, or other departments, you could be stuck in planning, building, or one of the other board of appeals, abatement appeals? for periods of years. the time clock really starts when we give them a second notice of violation. and the code says that after they get a second notice of violation, we have to take into what we call a director's hearing and you have 30 days in which to get them to a director's hearing. the code is, specific and it

says at a director's hearing, the hearing officer has some discretion, but you have to he can't give you more than 365 days and not more than one extension of that and that is not to be more than 365 days, and i could tell you through the experience, giving 365 days for somebody who is at a director's hearing is extremely rare and it is never happens and it is 30 or 60 and it is something about a permit. >> it allows that if the person who is doing the work was unfamiliar with the code, or one of his, or if he can prove that one of his employees was negligent, we could take that

into consideration, and the like, the time is nine penalty we can probably reduce it a little bit and also, if you buy a house as you all know, it is a buyer's market, people are finding it difficult to get housing, they will buy a house with notices of violation not really understanding what that is all about. and then they come to us and say wait a minute this is $100,000 times 9, it is $100,000 worth of work, they ask for a relief and the code allows us to go from time to times two. in the work is particularly bad, we have the ability to go into the repair and demolition fund and we do that often, the only ones that we have used we are waiting on the payment.

we have the option after the director's hearing to give an order abasement after an order of abatement, and it basically, let's everybody know that there is a problem with your building. after order after abatement for the buildings that we consider are unsafe and hazardous, and we have the option of sending it to the city attorney and of course, at the end of the year, everybody gets, and everybody who has not taken care of their order of abatement gets to go to the board of supervisor where we place a tax lien on your property. and i am available for questions and i am sure rose mary probably has a few things to say. >> commissioner mar? >> it seems like this report is a little bit related to the previous one on the nov, problems, that we have had. >> and so, here is one of the things, especially because this is on the building side. and i know that the goal is

compliance. and not just the fees, or the penalties the people that started to work without the permits and i am just trying to understand and especially for the building, and beyond the scope of the work. and there seems to be little effort. to take down the illegal project and rather it is much easier for them to say that i can get it legalized and i am just going to apply for a permit, or apply through the planning that will take years. and so then, it sits there. the work just sits there while they apply for their permit or the plans, which may or may never come. and so that, i think that is

part of the frustration, of some of the novs and some of the frustration of labors, and i know that we have criticized and the anonymous neighbors and that is the frustration out there that there is no attempts to say that look you built this illegally and very easy to resolve, take it down. and you know, so what, and i am just trying to get a handle on what you see there. >> the building permit, the code, it specific, and it says that you must legalize or remove. and you get that option. >> so we can't tell you where the building department code says that you must remove it and then we talk about it, what the code says is that we have got you and we have got you for fines. it can get worse and there are the tax liens and everything else and while they are in the code enforcement, we do have the option of sometimes saying, you know, we know you, and it is not the first time.

and we are going to give you an order, and we are going to give you an order of abatement. and there is a few things that we can do. and but essentially, the building code allows you to legalize it. >> and so we are, it is the code. >> and deputy, sorry commissioner mar? >> just, don't we have a pretty clear assessment of some projects where we know that it is impossible to legalize. and i mean that of course some things can be legalized and the small project and the minor project and where there are zoning issues involved and where there are mostly beyond the scope of the permit it happens on your small jobs but they are the ones that will be difficult. and there are there is one on procidio that, it was a fourth floor deck and we treat it and it was more than 500 square feet and so we treat it as

acting as a new floor and he had to put in two means of egress during the course of the investigation. and we or one of it is places that was going to be a second egress he had to have an easement through a partial easement through a neighbor's property and we caught that and stopped it. and there is a lot of things that you can do on things of violations of that nature and it is, and it, the building official has that power to where he can say okay you can't give me two, legal means of egress however if you put the floor, the floor ceiling assembly at one hour and you put that one exit that is the local equivalency and we can give you your deck. so it is very vast and it is very complicated. >> commissioner lee? >> i am not sure if

commissioner mar was alluding to the fact that if we find the violation during construction and we stop the construction and it takes years for the owner to get the approved permits to finish building it, then that construction site just sits there and it might look blighted, is there any flexibility on our part to tell or in instruct the property owners of what they need to do to secure the site to make it less look like a blight? >> one example that might effect them also is that if they are building an addition, they might be or have torn down a wall and now the interior is exposed.

>> i can give you an example, the documents were altered and called it in and that has been sitting there for it has got to be four years and he twoent planning and planning said tear it down. and he refused to do it and it is at the city attorney. if you wait a year you get to reapply, that is what he has done. >> would you say... >> in the meantime he has a building that is not properly... proofed and he needs to come in periodically and ask to rewater proof it. >> and so what, what do we do? what can we do to make it less of a blighted situation for the neighborhood? >> well, he has an order of abatement and the case has been referred to the city attorney. and the city attorney is actively going after him. >> that is the only recourse that we have. >> yeah. >> i think that you know, there are some sophisticated people who exploit the system.

>> yeah. >> he was an, engineer. >> with regard to, kind of, and the commissioner mar's concerns, if we don't have to go back to planning and it is all solved in the dbi structure, family, as it were. >> how quickly do the turn arounds of those ones? >> we treat them like ne other building permit >> that one did get resolved it is just when it leaves your department and it is outside of your jurisdiction, it is when you find that it is going to sit out there. >> it is when they go beyond the building envelope and now all of a sudden it is so much larger. >> if you put in a kitchen and it is an over the counter permit. >> they are all, they are all dealt with and resolved. >> it is not too often that we get those, but yes. >> yeah, we do get them. >> it is your experience that the ones that we are talking about here are the ones that have gone outside of the will envelope of the approval. >> yes. >> okay.

>> any questions? >> i have a question. >> you mentioned that after a second notice of violation is issued to a property, and it will go to a director's hearing, right? >> yes. >> and is there any way to speed up the process and i don't know if the recipients of these notice of violations would agree to it, but could they request it going straight to the director's hearing? >> well, i mean, that it might save us some. >> i believe that they could but they never do. >> are they givener the option? >> we don't tell them, >> why not? >> would that save us a little time? >> and instead of waiting for the second notice of violation. >> i suppose that it would. >> yeah. >> i don't know too many that would agree to that. because, it is going to take them time to get the plans and the permits to fill out. and fill out the form and bring it down. >> and it will be to elect it would be. >> excuse me? >> how would the vehicle to do that?

>> change it. >> and you need to change the code? it is not an appeal? >> for instance, you can get a notice of violation and you can go straight to the appeals board. or you can go straight to the board of permit of appeals. and incidentally, the board of appeals, 99 out of 100 reduced the penalty from times nine to times two, they don't even discuss it any more, the only times that they discuss is it when one of the commissioners is ... >> i am shortening the time frame and, right now the way that it is the people just sit on it and wait for the second violation to come and i am wondering if my help... >> some do. >> i was ra her go straight to the process. >> given, your explanation of the three levels and i don't think that there is any disagreement on the last one which is just no additional cost for accidents and acts of nature or whatever. but it seems like we do have

the discussion from two times to nine times and i think that is where the time question should come in. because if the owners are going to sit on it for two or three years my thing is that we are going for it for nine times if they want to resolve it quicker, and do it in 6 months or something reasonable. depending on the scope of work. then i think that we want to again, the point is to abait, not to assess the fees. and i think that we have some discretion there and the only other point that i would like to add is that i know the time and planning does not go together. and so my only thing is what do you do when someone says it is in planning. i do feel that we do have discretion and the discretion of two times verses nine times, is the only hammer that we have. if they are going to take the time they should go for the maximum fees. >> good point.

>> we need to look at this and we are speeding up our director hearing, now. this is two hearing per week and then, when, you know, we may suggest to the home owner or the permit holder to come in and go for the hearing, and you know, and speed up the process, and you have seen the incentive to come in to clean up and then we can put it in, and you know that kind of a suggestion for them and we could enter into the code that we could say that if you come in within, 30 days and put in for a building permit. we will work with you on your penalties. >> and so how, it would be, it would be a good tool. >> yeah, how do we do that? >> we change the code. >> and what, we can do to start with, and the information sheet. and you know, yeah. >> and then to the public, and

then we could have that, and in from the public and em pose it on the nine. and then, we will do the change in, and leave it on. >> could we, maybe put something together for to take a look at our next meeting? and then... >> i would be happy to put something together. >> perfect. >> if you happen to come up with anything else while you are thinking those terms bring that along. >> thank you. >> do we have any more questions? >> no. >> okay, good. >> thank you. >> is there any public comment on item 9? >> seeing none, item ten, discussion of dbi assessment of the 52 monitoring fee, in accordance with the sf building code tables 1 a-k including estimated budget cost. >> >> you are busy deputy today. >> and good morning commissioners.

>> director. and inspection services. both divisions having division and the dbi is in person, the 52 monitoring fee. and we are loaded up and we, and we gave the one notice of it and it has to be charged as far as the few, there is some confusion that we are working with the city attorney right now, and it is difficult sometimes when the issue of notice of violation, when the date of the monitoring takes effect. and the great example of that is the issue of notice of violation and allow the 30 days before the monitoring fee. but if someone comes in and gets a permit and is beyond the 30 days, and the performing the work and the monitoring fees is still assessed but the problem that we have is that it does not know a code enforcement. but when he go to the job we cannot find the job until the (inaudible) state and this incurs a huge (inaudible)

inspection services because we will not be able to final a job, until the fee is paid and we recommend that the fee goes when it goes acode enforcement. and then you have a file a claim and it is easy to assess the monitoring fee. we are working with the city attorneys on that because the language is vague. but the performing of the monitoring fee per the code right now, and it is for the ordinance right now that the city attorney is looking into it and to clarify the monitoring fee and that want to let you know that they are charging a monitoring fiat this time. >> we are still in the air about how we collect this. >> we are up in the air collecting and we are working with the city attorneys on that and looking to try to clean the language on that. >> okay. >> you know as you know, deputy director, this was an issue in the grand jury and i want this to be spot on. and this was not to collect this and did you get a handle on that number. and because i know that it was

a number of 900,000 thrown out at one of the... >> the grand jury came up with the 900,000 figure and we came back and looked at all of the notices of violations from 2010 to 2013. and this was for bid. and what happened there was a lot of the notice violations and the safety hazards and the fire in the building and the cargo in the building and land slide and no fees assessed and we pulled that out. and they should not have the monitoring fee charged to those. no, and they did come up with. >> and you go to the screen. >> and we came up to the figure that the building inspection was 210,652 after eliminating the hazard fees that had it not had the 9 times penalty assessed to it because it was a hazard. it was a notice of violation

for an unsafe condition but there is not a penalty on that. and the electrical and division, 14,560. plumbing, 80,621, code enforcement was 319,280. for a total of 625,112 dollars, and that was a figure that we came up with when we looked at every one. >> that was missed. >> that is correct. >> all right. >> i think that it is important that we start off with the proper figures. and especially this program, now that we are going to be diligent on making sure that it is enforced. that is good and i know that took a lot of work, thank you for that. it was a mad number out there and i wanted to know what the data is. >> and that was the work to come up with the numbers. >> okay. >> and we are going forward and we should. >> and they have a program set up and in place now where the code enforcement and the housing collecting and their 52 monitoring fee. >> i would imagine that most

people are going to pay it and not having it hanging out there. >> all right. >> thank you commissioners. >> commissioners any questions on that? >> no. >> okay. >> is there any public comment on item 10? >> okay, seeing none, item 12, commissioner's questions and matters. 12 a, inquiries to staff, at this time, commissioners may make inquiries to staff regarding various documents, policies practices, procedures, which are of interest to the commission. >> >> commissioners? >> no. >> we are good. >> thank you. >> okay. >> 12 b, future meetings and agendas, at this time the commission may discuss and take action to set the date of a special meeting and or determine those items that could be placed on the agenda of the next meeting and future meetings of the building inspection commission. >> seeing none. >> okay. >> next meeting, will be on

december 18th. >> okay. >> is there any public comment on items 12 aor b? >> seeing none, item 13, review and approval of the minutes of the regular meeting of august 21, 2013. >> moved to approve. >> second. >> motion and a second, all commissioners in favor? >> aye. >> public comment? >> is there any public comment? >> seeing none, i will call the question again, are all commissions in sfaifr? >> aye. >> any opposed? >> okay. >> and then the minutes are approved. item 14, review and approval of the minutes of the special meeting of september 5, 2013. is there a motion to approve? >> motion to approve?

>> second. >> is there any public comment? >> seeing none, are all commissioners in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? >> and the minutes are approved. item 15, review and approval of the minutes of the special meeting of september 10, 2013. nso moved. >> second. >> here is a motion and a second, is there any public comment? >> are all commissioners in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? >> these minutes are approved. >> item 16, review and approval of the minutes of regular meeting of september 18, 2013. >> so moved. >> second. >> here is the motion and a second. is there any public comment? >> seeing none, all in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? >> minutes are approved.

item 17, adjournment. is there a motion to adjourn? >> so moved. >> second. >> all commissioners in favor? >> aye. >> any opposed? we are now journed, it is 11:05 and we will reconvene as the abatement appeals board.gov tv. >> hello san francisco, here is an activities that is worth buzzing about. celebrate the

livmusic with dance and theatre performances and film screening and tours and more. checkout the public library unbuilt san francisco exhibit featuring architectural rendering of what never was in the public spaces of san francisco. imagine the reality of a panhandle parkway and the library building and visualize a monument in cascade twin peaks. exhibit is on through november 27th. join us for a spontaneous combustion. this jam celebrates music and keeping it live. that's your weekly buzz. for more information on any of

these events, visit us at >> ready to begin this meeting. >> good morning, today is wednesday, november 20, 2013, this is a meeting of the abatement appeals board and i would like to remind everyone to please turn off all electronic devices, the first item is roll call. melgar, n here. >> commissioner mar? >> here. >> mccarthy. >> here. >> mccray. >> present. >> commissioner walker and commissioner clinch are excused and commissioner lee is expected. >> next item is b, the oath, all parties giving testimony

today please stand and raise your right-hand. >> >> and so now you may now are seated and it will be the staff and look at the report and then the appellant will give a report. >> okay the staff has seven minutes to present their case. and the appellant has 7 minutes to present their case, and they are each have three minutes of rebuttal and there will be public comment. >> okay, next item is item c, approval of the minutes. and the discussion and possible action to adopt the minutes on august 21, 2013, and october 16, 2013. >> is there a motion to approve? >> so moved. >> second. >> okay. >> the motion and the second.