within the year. pretty much our investigation is forwarded to the da to make a review and issue what would be a declination letter on an officer shooting. but again, there's no predict our of how long it could take. >> okay. thank you. thank you, commissioner da joe's. i've had the honor of sitting in on the process it's a little bit choifk but it's humbling and it's nice way for the captains to get together and discuss the police officers role doing heroic things running into burning building and doing a lot of heroic things.

it's a great process with the malicious and i've seen it get heated in there. it's a role great procedure. i think one of the raendz it's been brought up i've been on the commission before with the cohesive with there was some metal that were awarded but there were issues going on for the background of the woourd of those metals and i know this commission delayed those honors. i can't remember how we did that but i'm saying this to the officers they got the award but there would any appearance of a scandal. i know recently it's come up again where there's some allocations of an investigation everyone was confident there was

no wrongdoing. we might want to consider a policy from the commission standpoint if there's an investigation ongoing or not exactly concluded or the circumstances of an award you may want to delay it we might want to talk about delaying it until the procedures are concludeded. this going forward there might be a good rule. i know last time it caused some hard feelings. i in no what you want to take away from the deeds the officers do they risk their lives. i was there when officer - when one of the officers partners had been shot in the head and he was nominated for an award it was a

hard process to answer questions. i know how they don't feel they deserve awards and their humble. i think we should talk about going forward do we want to have a policy in police radios so it's not haphazardly done or hurt feelings or any kind of chirps. i want to assure the commission it is anything but happen hazard hard and it comes by policy to this commission for approval >> i don't mean the process is happen hazard arrested i mean if an investigation is not

concluded we may want to talk about that. >> i think there's a process in place to have that happen. >> i don't know the policy i've seen it go both ways. the - and a itself committee of valor makes recommendations >> i'm not communicating myself very well but it depend upon who is sitting on the commission and the outcome. i'm wondering as the policy goes forward doesn't this committee want to have a policy in place. it's just putting it out there they mate not want to do that at all it's a guidance for making decisions some commissioners don't have the history and don't know we've detailed it in the past. i know there were some bad

feelings going on people were wondering was there an investigation going on. i'm talking about as a commission pitting in a guideline when they're making the praufldz whether or not they want to 3r5u6 interest i'm talking about our body to have certain guidelines in place. we mate not want to approve one it gives with guidance to the commissioners but you have that prerogative now >> you're missing the point some people knowing the history we have that power and we just put it in a written policy would be in the benefit of us currently sitting and future

commissioners. i may have not articulated well enough >> i'll jump off but it's not noted when it's begin to the commission it's just a list of folks. >> that's right. we happen to know about the federal case but when you get that list we don't know if there's a federal case good morning. maybe it should be brought to the commission attention so they can make an informed decision about the process >> i know commissioner lost tuesday there is a process in place as the chief said. the chief was thinking about obtaining to one of the awards and a there wasn't enough time and how do we handle that in front of the of the thought

commission and we're not laud to talk about personal matters. and canned plaintiff's 3ly there's a process and the commissioners can say look i don't agree to this award. but here's my thoughts having been on the commission for awhile my questions is it's a delicate balance. because everyone in the gold metal incident it's an officer involved shooting so there's an be american people investigation. so look at the condition for a goldment metal. there was serious concern last time about this commission waiting for the litigation donates pend. there's a lot of lawyers out there that like to hold the city

hospital contagious for fees. that doesn't mean there's any merit to it. so move back into the facts and the process and the process itself is that you have the most senior members of the police department who know if an officer shooting is correct or not reviewing this. we had an incident the occ didn't have a chance to respond and officer hicks was not on the agenda. again, we move back to does this belong to the commission or is this one the one of the oldest traditions. do we even have a is in this. when you look at this it's the tradition of the police department it's their award.

it's a delicate balance but again, we have to be cognizant there's always going to be a lawsuit. and what those officers did it's not fair to wait. and back to the question what takes so long for the officer shootings. i ouch wonder what takes so long. if a homicide occurred right outside of the city hall and the suspect was arrested they'd be in court monday. everybody is krots their i i - everybody is waiting for someone to make the decision and that's from the da's office. that's what we need to a look

at. that's my two kent >> i was going to deter to commissioner thank you, your honor man, i know you represented you were the president of the last award cycle. did you want to add anything. it was a very fulfilling experience. certainly i agree with the chief there's nothing happen hazard about this experience. we certainly i understand it's the departments award but as general d g owe 9 it comes down before us for approval. i don't know if we need to have a measure in place but we need to sduths discuss this in the commission not in the press.

i always want to make clear it's a personal issue that can't be discussed we have closed sessions. and, you know, regardless of the process we decide on if we do something or not i think we need to be more respectful of communicating with each other in the proper forum. that's all i have to say >> commissioner loft tuesday. i was - another commissioner asked about this and i expressed any concern about the spirit of awards to lift up bravery and honor that and not in any way disrespect that. so what is really helpful about your presentation captain is it's really clear through this d g owe of how much the police

department has and they may reinvestigate a nomination and my issue always was i know the department made it clear to us when we reviewed the nominations i think some of the organization i ss and some of the high-profile cases we're fall familiar and are tracking it. the process was set up for us to have a debate and my issue was the commissioners who just voted no and was unable to explain their reason and take the issue up with us i feel like this process is helpful for you to explain this but the president of the awards committee is actually a police commissioners and that vesting process i trust

in. commissioner da joe's comments are useful the fact that the president is from the awards committee they can ask the questions that are of concern for this body >> you service the chair your - the commissioner is the chair. >> the commissioners is the achiever. >> what does that mean? >> you can ask questions of the commissioner the last time we condone. >> as the chair the commissioner, i have the right to ask a question. >> thank you for classifying that. i think along those lines it's important that we, you know, i'm very satisfied with the roll we played in the last process and

am glad to know the full process and we need to make sure we ask the questions and vote for our conscious and have the public debate >> i want to say open on behalf of the all the captains we take this soldiers. it's one of the most important things we do and have thirty captains in a room and have a two-thirds vote we all agree on that and i want you to know how serious we take that or this >> we understand exactly how much you folks put into this process and respect that. i don't think anybody is disarraying we want to make sure our role is or should be for this process.

it was a huge how were you for me to chair the last time around and i hope every commissioner has this opportunity. it w it w it was wonderful to see the process. we're sorry we haven't worked it out here it's on us not you, please understand >> commissioner kingsley. senior captain lazzaro thank you for your terrific report here. i would like to reiterate what has been said before there's no doubt but this very, you know, historic wonderful, you know, process is done with a great deal the care and respect.

commissioners come and go and there are a great deal of areas where individual commissioners can participate with various activities outside of sitting open the d s and the weekly meetings so with that some days we jump in to a particular role and really haven't gotten a lot of background around what it means to be sitting in that role and responsibilities in that role. and with that, being said with the rotation of commissioners coming and going and also in light of even the best of things sometimes need tweaking over time or can be elements can be added with regard to the concerns that have been voiced

tonight it seems like the discolor around whether or not there's a pending investigation id or a criminal possible kri7b8 investigation is important information for the chair commissioner as well as the entire commission that is deciding on, you know, approving folks that are applicant that are up. it so he means that the discolor is important and if there's an applicant that has something pending then disclosure knowing there's that and that codify disclosure and regarding just to clarify relatively to the

investigation that the award is being considered for with that narrow scope that disclosure is made and in sufficient time so that the rest of the commission can be knowledgeable about it prior to voting i think would address a lot of what i'm hearing here. personally, i think some of the advantages are from the officers standpoint there isn't this cloud over his or her head here they are receiving this award but at the same time there's some investigation going on out there and the other part i don't want to have any action that the commission takes or the department takes in general to at all be having any suggestion of in any way standing in the

way or not standing in the way is not the right word but casting some kind of cloud in terms of the independent of the investigation. their worthy of it but there's an investigation. it feels like there's, you know, a cart and horse codify thing going on here. i don't want us to be, you know, interpreted as taking some action that somehow flies in the face of another investigation. in part it's why it's put to the occ that's why is there any complaint that's been registered with the occ so we will know about it if there's something in the department liquor id or a

criminal charge we ought to know about it. so it's a long w0i7b9d around way of i'd be in favor forgave of a disclosure so we have it calendared appropriately as a personnel matter. do you see a problem with it attach - >> i'm the chief of police. >> (laughter). >> yes. you are. >> i wanted to let dave off the hook. >> it's codify my call (laughter). >> so this isn't productive. there's a thousand years of police experience in that room. there's an order that has checks and balances. if you've ever sat in that room

it's heated it's almost enforceable for an officer is not to get a metal it's a standing applause. it's a thorough thing it's transparent it's your prerogative to ask for more investigation to draw something out. you can ask anything you want to ask at&t any point. we'll not further a recommendation to you that has a cloud over it. i believe that the generation of this particular acquire was around the fact that the da's vegsdz are still open and sometimes, it takes years and it's not fair to the officer

because the investigation itself is complete and in the hands of the da to merely issue the declaration. i'm going is a they're a slam dunk but the vegetates we do is good. yet still for this commission if you'd like to separate something out as expressed in the order ask for further investigation it isn't broken we don't need to fix it. if someone want to ask for a disclosure but please we're laboring over the most honorable thought-out practice and policy in one of the most historic police departments in the country and we're making it sound like we do is on a wing and prayer it's not fair >> may i respond. thank you cohesive.

i know this is a subject of a great grateful passion it's a beautiful beautiful component of the department. i certainly want to clarify that any statement i've made is not intended at all to be detracting from this about how far ceremony and the process around that. the only question i pose is you know if in one of those rare instances one in a thousand or whatever applicant that come forward if there's something out there is there any harm in simply providing disclosure and so we all say i'm familiar with that beef heard about that in the commission and getting on b with that rather than obeying being surprised when a fellow

commissioner hears something else and it's the night for voting and it has not been on the agenda properly >> that's not accurate a. there was nothing nobody that was mislead into the particular incident was closed and again - >> and it's not still and a right. right there's no suggestion at all that anybody was trying to how wide a ball or anything it's just a matter of somebody a commissioner heard something brought it to our attention and we didn't have time to talk it out. so if there was something there if we have an understanding >> commissioner, i respectfully say that's not the case. >> can you i want to say i

recognize those awards are a huge deal. i've been to a lot of ceremonies and understand and appreciate they're a symbol of sacrifice and service. when i sit up there and have the honor 6 seeing the officers get the awards it's amazing. part of the reason i bring this up i think the only part of this process needs fixing to be frank is that piece of it the commissioners getting the information if there's a a pending occ complaint and an investigation or a da investigation at least we receive that information. i was in a difficult spot i'm not going to point out one case it's not frequent where one of the 3 not just the da piece but

an intermittently fairdz the person gets the award it depends upon on the commission to figure out what's going on we could all figure out this did it maintains to do that. i didn't handle it well, when i was presented with that situation i already apologize i didn't handle it well, but part of why i think it's great to talk about this is for us to practice going forward so another commissioner liquor me can't be in that situation speaker i think the best rule is if there's a pending one of the 3 i'm sorry hold on cohesive. unless it takes for forever for an investigation so none of the commission you it's such a

sacred process i don't think i've ever voted no on o a metal of honor. so it would be better for the whole commission if it could be noted or better yet wait until the investigation is over. it's i was in an walked situation i'm trying to correct that going forward. i know a couple years ago i saw a news article this has happened we've had this problem. another point the reason for the objection cc poise if there's a pending investigation and the board has not reviewed it and issued a decision then there's a

possibility that that could end up out the policy and go to the commission. we've been in difficult places before but this is needing a roll of thump >> the fireman discharge review board meets every two weeks and the metal are given twice a year so nobody is - that's an comboenlt that the farmlands discharge board would not have met. i can't remember in my time an open internal affairs going forward you references

something. so my memory it happened at least twice i want to ask the department to look through the record and have we ordered any metals of honor not that internal affairs is pending and we think that will go in policy. i do recall i'm going to call them out but i recall two times he want to award those difficult swishgdz because as a commission we want to vote yes and not be in that situation >> commissioner da jose do you want to add something. so cohesive listen to me closely when i said haphazardly i made a poor choice of words. it's a fabulous process so let's

get that straight. my vocabulary was not good. i want to thank all the commissioners here bus it feels cleaning and good. it's a go decision going forward. i know i mean the process i think is the way it is it should stay the same it's a great process. i think we're talking about going forward with the commission perhaps we should talk with the commission secretary and talk about any investigation going on so we can make an informed decision or if we need to go in closed session. i also agree with the cohesive that a delay is not - a delay is not fair