you have any questions, and i am more than happy to answer. >> thank you i just wanted to ask, earlier it was brought up that we locally have the main nens and the responsibility for seven of our bart and i think that it is 8 san francisco bart stations what is the other bart station that bart is responsible for? >> bart responsible for is it called geneva? which station? owned and operated? in addition to the boss stations. >> my understanding is that there are seven bart stations. >> that is correct. >> mta is responsible for. there are 8 bart stations in san francisco, so which one is the mta not responsible for? >> maybe we could just get that information at some other time. >> the mta is responsible for the exterior escalator and we are responsible for two at

pallet street station and the one that goes to the plaza area and there are three stations that are not and, that is van ness and church street and castro street station which we maintain the exterior and the remainder of the stations joint or just bart stations in the south east are the responsibility of bater. >> okay. so i am understanding even though there are eight physical bart stations there, there were other facilities that bart and the mta work together on so i pds. >> and the commissioner you had mentioned that when was the last time that bart he is ka layed in the program? and i think that it was a 15 years ago where we had a system wide and we are called the escalator overhaul. but it does not necessarily cover every single escalator, they were identified the group of the escalators yeah. >> commissioner breed? >> yes. i just need some clarity as to with the replacements.

who is going to be taking on the responsibility of the canopies? and will those be done similar stain simultaneously? >> we have not with the downtown station and bart is responsible for maintain it and sfmta is responsible and contribute 50 percent of the cost of the maintenance >> could i hear from someone from the mta about this particular matter, please? >> so, the stations that the canopy that were shown to us today from bart, are the canopies that will be installed not with this particular prop k funding, what bart is doing from the station and my understanding and the presentation is the pilot. and so they are trying to test

the treatments and the different things that might work and i think that they will learn a lot from the pilot and there is no proposal right now to put any of these portal covers on any of the joint stations along market street and the continual down market at church and castro, and we will wait to see how long that works out. >> how long will that be? >> as i mentioned the pilot is to be constructed by the end of next year, and in process we will observe the contractbilities and the after and two months. and so-called, in the other years. and the seasons to perform and the workshops and with the various department of city and contract for san francisco about this initiative. >> i think that my digest concern about, you know, what we are doing now, is that there

is not a clear plan to protect the escalators and i think that if there is such a huge investment that is being requested for these escalators and not just the maintenance plan but i know that supervisor campos wanted to know about a specific main nens, and a long term maintenance plan with the escalators but what is most important to me, is a plan to protect them, especially if we are investing millions of dollars in replacing them. and i understand that this does not happen every night. but, i don't want to wait two or three years for a test. i want there to be in sort of reconsilation sooner than rather than later and there are places that are examples of places where outdoor escalators have been covered and so i am sure that a test is not completely, and we did not do a

test for the new shelters that were installed all over the city and in places that they probably should not be and so i just don't understand why this is not happening simultaneously. first and four most, the escalators are expensive to maintain and so replacing them and getting them renew and making sure that they are upgraded is important and so we are using the federal funds to match the problem k are rehab funds and that is how we are approaching the project. with regard to the portal, it is similar to the muni shelter so so there will be out reach and what do the people think about the design? i do know that as part of the discussions, around the better market street project, there is certainly that consideration that as we improve market street, the portals should be part of that discussion.

i think that we are looking at as we discuss these joint covers with bart and they maintain those escalators we want consistency and i think that the community would want that too. so point taken, there say lot of moving parts. this will be an important part of helping to further maintain, and extend the life of the escalators right now the plan is to get as many of them as we can get done to weatherize the ones that we are responsible for maintaining at church and castro street and van ess street location and which we have done and we have the

maintenance plan in place and we look to the pilot to be complete and further discussions about that. >> that is a long way off. that is my concern, is what takes care of the problem now? i mean that you have given me information that indicates there is no clear direction that this particular the ability to provide canopies and it associated with a lot of moving parts, but ultimately, the bigger issue for me was the protection of the significant public investment of millions of dollars and so at the end of the day, yes, it goes to the process, and yes it goes to the design review at the arts commission and everything else. but where does the lead happen? where does the push happen? and to wait for a pilot i think is just not a good direction to go with. and especially because what that says to me is the work

that you are going to be doing with replacing these escalators, once i mean that they are going to be replaced before we even maybe consider possibly a canopy as an option for the escalators. so, i don't want to miss out in an opportunity, of course, for federal dollars to make this happen. but, i just don't feel confident that we are doing this the right way. with not including an ability to really protect these escalators from maybe even more than 25 years, by doing something as simple as providing a canopy to help do that. >> so, these are, and these are all excellent points and it is the typical question of coordination, and us coordinate withing bart and working through our process in san francisco with the partners and getting these projects done, the schedule for phase two, which includes some of the

escalators at church and castro street has the project completed in the winter of 2018, so these will happen as part of a phase process. one thing that i noted when i talked about the maintenance plan was before we executed the next maintenance contract with cone, we actually tested out the escalator to make sure that we could include everything that we needed to in the maintenance contract association i think that between the better market street contract and the schedule for this project and the schedule for the bart test, or pilot, maybe what we can do is try to work it out so at least we get as close as we can with the timing. i think that is something that we can work on with your office. >> is it possible to add that to the resolution that we include, you know, that as a part of the resolution, so that it is, or that we have, and so whether i am the supervisor and you are in your job position or whatever the case is, there is a responsibility here, for the city, to move forward in that

direction? >> i think that is perfectly fair that we continue to advance moving that forward. >> thank you. >> commissioner kim? >> thank you. and i apologize that i missed the beginning of this presentation because i asked a lot of questions at the last meeting as well. i want to clarify, phase one, these five escalators in may of 2013. and the rest, the other 17 are schedule to be done over time through winter of 2018? >> correct. >> and so, the first five that went in, we were able to do some of i think, this work kind of the water proof conduit and the watering and the drainage but not the canopy yet. >> is it the only piece that is not part of phase one escalators? >> it is not part of the scope of either phase one or phase two. so, they are considered out of

scope. these projects are considered purely renewal and the dollars that we are using are designated for those purposes. >> do we have a sense of how long escalators last in other cities? >> well, these have been in place since 1972, since they originally went in, we do have a standard use for life that we use for all of the assets and i can share that with you if you would like. i don't have an answer right now about other cities, but we can certainly take a look and get back to you on other that. >> that i think it would be helpful to see what the poo city do not just the united states, but the world. i don't want to give them a hard time about 15 years or ten years if that is the average throughout the world. but if we have a sense of what cities are able to extend their useful life and cities aren't and what are the factors are and i think that we should be able to learn without not just commissioner breed said just

the pilot on 19th street but we have what we can look at. >> and you know, the best bang for our dollar. we will look at that provide that information to you >> well maybe i missed this in the plan, but i thought that in the 20 year plan we do talk about putting canopies on the escalators that we share with bater. but not for the stations that we don't share with bater. >> so there has always been discussions again as we look at market street and doing the better market street project that they can be part of that scope or integrated into that project. i think that the assumption from us is because the stations that we do not share with bart are also on market street. we would look to the design and the standard of that because that would go to a public process and we would have to be responsible on our own or the contribution of our own or the

construction of those. >> we have not considered them but it is that the consideration and the join ones with bart taking the lead on this pilot. >> i see, in the 20 years to me is a long time so i would hope that we would consider, van ness, and church and castro, but in the 20 year plan we just have embarcadero, montgomery and powell and civic center, the mayor's transportation task force put in 30 million dollars for the construction of the canopy so it asks the 18.5 million is just going towards

the escalator the task force is just the canopies. >> and i would not say that it is just for those four stations so bart gave you just as part of this presentation, just with their pilot project estimated 2 million dollars for an individual portal and so i think that the 30 million dollars would stretch as many port tals that we have in san francisco as possible. and so that 30 million is a place holder based on a guess as to what the cost will be. >> so up to potentially 15 portals. >> correct. >> okay. and then, the over all cost and construction of a better market street in general. i guess that i am trying to understand the over all, and just this prop k request and then the mayor's estimate and then there is better market street. >> so i can address, so, this is about the state of good repair of one of our assets as part of the system and an important one escalators and so the current prop k request is just for over three million dollars with the local match to

essentially renew or replace the escalators in the phase two project. and laid out in the presentation that i gave. that is just pure renewal of the aspect and replacement. and updated parts and materials. and as part of my presentation, i also included the maintenance contract and we have the annual contract, and we are hoping that through these renewals the actual cost of the day-to-day maintenance will go down and because we will no longer have to fab bri kate the parts which is a high cost for us. the mayor transportation task force leads to that, that is the state of good repair and the canopy would be an enhancement and there is 30 million set aside that will pay for those on top of it. and so depending on how the funding strategies and the task force work out and when the funds will be available and that will be advanced if the funds were available after that

process was completed so i will just answer from our perspective, we have, we are responsible for, about 8 escalators that touch the street and, bart is responsible for all of the other that go from the street down. and a lot that we are responsible for on top of that is those within the station those don't touch the weather at all. and so we do want to replace those and make sure that they work for people to get to the platform. >> but for the ones that are outdoors, how important is a canopj? >> there is a maintenance impact for those exposed to the weather and in a standard maintenance analysis we will look at it and the cost of the day-to-day maintenance and what the failures are and the standard parts, and we could

have the failures within the stations themselves and there will be a differential that we will assume that these tend to break a little more often. because they are impacted by the weather and debris and we have worked with the authority staff and certainly something that we could take a look at to see, kind of what that analysis is and what main nens costs are. but we the honest answer is that we don't know until we go through that process. >> i think that the reason that i think that we keep asking that question is because if we are going to invest in the new escalators we want to make sure that we are maximizing the dollars that we are spending to invest in the infrastructure to last as long as possible if we know that they are not important, but if i knew right now that they were going to impact the long term and not having them would impact the

long term maintenance i would want to wait to invest the dollars clearly not the ones that are already underground i just, again, i want to make sure that our dollars are getting stretched because we have so few, i think what is really challenging with this number for the canopies as much as i am pushing them, $30 million for them are the pedestrian safety strategy is 34 and put that into perspective is heart breaking and so, i want to get a since of the importance and if we are going to improve them and we feel the complaints about all of the time is that we are doing the best way possible. >> i think that our strategy for right now, is to try to get as many of the escalators repaired and functional and maintainable as possible. the funds that we have are maintenance dollars and prop k this is three million and where a canopy is 2 million and with regard to public impact we are

hoping this will impact a lot of people and we will at least to the best you have our ability make them as maintain able and reliable for our customers as possible. you know, commissioner breed, brought up a lot of good points with regard to time when we repair them and when the portal covers will happen and that process with scheduling and so again, those are the typical issues of coordination and timing and schedule. i certainly think that we can try to align those things up to the greatest extent possible. bater is starting a pilot. and any cover will have a positive impact, both to the customer and to some extent the maintenance, and what that is, we don't know yet. >> before we get to commissioners yee and campos, director lamgarto had a comment. >> these are accident questions

and i can tell that we touched on something and the escalators and vehicles that we hear the most often. why they don't have a formal process, and the leader of the share of the references are evaluated the impact and we can work out to reach out to them and see what they have found. >> thank you. >> do you have any other

questions? >> and commissioner yee? >> thank you. and i think that sort of, and you mentioned it that all of us want to move in. yeah, i am a little surprised that don't have and we have not looked at this aspect in more detail in regards to having these benefits of having the canopy. in the sort of the gut feeling, which is not supported by any analysis, i would have thought that the canopy would have saved on maintenance and is desirable when you are walking down or coming down those escalator and nobody is spitting at you from on top and so forth. and it is pretty much throughout the world and in the u.s. the escalators are

actually not exposed to the elements they are usually inside or they gate and so forth. so, i would like to support the notion that we do a good analysis of whether as you mentioned between what exists today and in terms of the maintenance costs between the ones that are internal verses the ones that are external. because, if indeed it does not make any difference, i'm wondering why we are spending so much money, if it does make a difference, then we need to fast forward to basically support or to, yeah, support our investment. so, that, and i don't have a question it is more of a comment >> so scott broder actually manages the maintenance contract and he gave me a quick

benefit cost analysis because he did look at it quickly and so i am going to let him just briefly respond to a couple of the questions. >> good morning. and so we have kept this for years, and i have been over seing the maintenance for 30 years here and while covering a piece of machinery from the outside elements is always beneficial and it is going to make the equipment last long and her hold up better, and when there are properly built they will last 25 years and that somebody was interesting about what the life cycle is, and it is the life cycle for 25 years and we will return about 7 days a week and it is much more nan a department store or someplace else. washington, d.c., about five years ago started to put in the barricades that build them out of stainless steel and visited with the people and looked at their canopy and they are well built and stainless steel and no main nens and no paint or corrosion problems, they spent

over a million dollars per canopy five years ago and the estimate about $2 million. and so it is much more for a canopy than it is for an escalator so if you want a cost benefit analysis, which john asked me for last week, our new maintenance agreement just on the five new escalators we have five maintenance contractors and but with them it is about 12 hun. and times 12 times 3 years, and so if you spent a million dollars on the canopy and even if you did not have to do any maintenance and it just ran and ran and nothing went wrong, it will cost you more for the canopy than for the escalator. so, the benefits to muni of having a canopy is in the worth we can do maintenance, but we

cannot do it on the outside and people work in the mechanical things in the rain and so we have hold up and so sometimes maintenance has to be put off for a week because we can't safely work on it in those conditions. otherwise the canopies are not cost effective. really, in san francisco, as far as you know, maintaining the equipment. we have looked at it, if you had a ton of money and you just wanted to spend t it is better, but they don't pay for themselves in reduced maintenance and another thing is, they may charge us $1200 to maintain it per month and the same for the outside, when it was a great difference when they bid the contract they would see a big contrast there and they would be able to round them both together and charge $1200 for inside and outside. >> and so does that answer? >> thank you so much for being here. >> okay, thank you. >> and the next question,

commissioner campos? >> i think that she wants to follow up with that. >> commissioner yee. >> just a quick question. so the rain and the weather for the outdoor escalators it would make a difference if it was covered with the canopy or not? >> it is always better but it is not going to be cost benefit. >> because they are made differently. >> yeah. >> they are made specifically. and we make sure that everything is as water proof as possible. and our old ones have laminated parts and in the water and do the lamb nation and the new escalators and the way that you designed them and we are not having the issues. we probably have as much problem with human waste, okay? and we probably have more problems with that than with other things. and plus, we are now going to have the additional cost of maintaining the canopy which

everyone will want to put the graffiti on and use it for the shelter and we will have a lot of other factors that will come into play? >> there is no data that exists that canopies or that escalators that are covered and not covered as it relates to outdoor, there is not necessarily a life extension of the escalator. >> like i said, if you worked the numbers, if you did not have to maintain it for 25 years, he would still be hard prelsed to break even on the price of the canopy. >> okay, thank you. >> he wanted to respond from bart on his design and probably other benefits that we might not be thinking about. >> would i like to make two programs. and it is responding to commissioner breed and then wrap up my presentation. again, as the presentation indicated to having a canopy has a multiple benefit, it is clearly best practice and not invest by the california state

code, and it is on the experience, and the safety, security, and then, reduce the liability of the agencies like in the wet weather and also, in the enhancement to the reduction of the maintenance intensity, and so again, we see this, this is a synergy and it is a part of the escalator, and modernization program and that is why, it is so eager to get this going, because our money man had a call for clearly, the edge of our escalator system is there and just like the gentleman indicated in the 5 years and 30 years of the expensive e system and we need to have it going and until it

is, they have a plan in place and by doing this pilot, we are also learned the process of the design, and derive the design solution and take all of these issues and so it is ready to work with mta. and there is a department in san francisco. and so, there is no doubt that we will have this resource and readiness to move forward in the project as one time in the dpw, and the deputy director. >> thank you. >> we still have a number of other commissioners that wanted to comment. >> thank you. >> i have to say that the more that i hear about the canopy issue, the less i understand what the point of having them may be. and it seems like there is a difference of opinion between what the mta and bart is saying and so that is a concern.

and so, i would ask that we figure out that we believe that collectively that there is a benefit to the canopy and given that even if there is no maintenance for 25 years, you know, the canopy will still be more expensive. you know, is that necessarily the best way to use the limited resources we have? and even if it is done through a pilot is that really the right way to go? so, i don't, you know, hearing, this discussion makes me less comfortable. i do have a question about the main nens plan. i saw in the packet that there was a schedule but i did not see a