traditions. do we even have a is in this. when you look at this it's the tradition of the police department it's their award. it's a delicate balance but again, we have to be cognizant there's always going to be a lawsuit. and what those officers did it's not fair to wait. and back to the question what takes so long for the officer shootings. i ouch wonder what takes so long. if a homicide occurred right outside of the city hall and the suspect was arrested they'd be in court monday. everybody is krots their i i -

everybody is waiting for someone to make the decision and that's from the da's office. that's what we need to a look at. that's my two kent >> i was going to deter to commissioner thank you, your honor man, i know you represented you were the president of the last award cycle. did you want to add anything. it was a very fulfilling experience. certainly i agree with the chief there's nothing happen hazard about this experience. we certainly i understand it's the departments award but as general d g owe 9 it comes down

before us for approval. i don't know if we need to have a measure in place but we need to sduths discuss this in the commission not in the press. i always want to make clear it's a personal issue that can't be discussed we have closed sessions. and, you know, regardless of the process we decide on if we do something or not i think we need to be more respectful of communicating with each other in the proper forum. that's all i have to say >> commissioner loft tuesday. i was - another commissioner asked about this and i expressed any concern about the spirit of awards to lift up bravery and honor that and not in any way

disrespect that. so what is really helpful about your presentation captain is it's really clear through this d g owe of how much the police department has and they may reinvestigate a nomination and my issue always was i know the department made it clear to us when we reviewed the nominations i think some of the organization i ss and some of the high-profile cases we're fall familiar and are tracking it. the process was set up for us to have a debate and my issue was the commissioners who just voted no and was unable to explain their reason and take the issue up with us i feel like this

process is helpful for you to explain this but the president of the awards committee is actually a police commissioners and that vesting process i trust in. commissioner da joe's comments are useful the fact that the president is from the awards committee they can ask the questions that are of concern for this body >> you service the chair your - the commissioner is the chair. >> the commissioners is the achiever. >> what does that mean? >> you can ask questions of the commissioner the last time we condone. >> as the chair the commissioner, i have the right to ask a question.

>> thank you for classifying that. i think along those lines it's important that we, you know, i'm very satisfied with the roll we played in the last process and am glad to know the full process and we need to make sure we ask the questions and vote for our conscious and have the public debate >> i want to say open on behalf of the all the captains we take this soldiers. it's one of the most important things we do and have thirty captains in a room and have a two-thirds vote we all agree on that and i want you to know how serious we take that or this >> we understand exactly how much you folks put into this

process and respect that. i don't think anybody is disarraying we want to make sure our role is or should be for this process. it was a huge how were you for me to chair the last time around and i hope every commissioner has this opportunity. it w it w it was wonderful to see the process. we're sorry we haven't worked it out here it's on us not you, please understand >> commissioner kingsley. senior captain lazzaro thank you for your terrific report here. i would like to reiterate what

has been said before there's no doubt but this very, you know, historic wonderful, you know, process is done with a great deal the care and respect. commissioners come and go and there are a great deal of areas where individual commissioners can participate with various activities outside of sitting open the d s and the weekly meetings so with that some days we jump in to a particular role and really haven't gotten a lot of background around what it means to be sitting in that role and responsibilities in that role. and with that, being said with the rotation of commissioners coming and going and also in

light of even the best of things sometimes need tweaking over time or can be elements can be added with regard to the concerns that have been voiced tonight it seems like the discolor around whether or not there's a pending investigation id or a criminal possible kri7b8 investigation is important information for the chair commissioner as well as the entire commission that is deciding on, you know, approving folks that are applicant that are up. it so he means that the discolor is important and if there's an applicant that has something

pending then disclosure knowing there's that and that codify disclosure and regarding just to clarify relatively to the investigation that the award is being considered for with that narrow scope that disclosure is made and in sufficient time so that the rest of the commission can be knowledgeable about it prior to voting i think would address a lot of what i'm hearing here. personally, i think some of the advantages are from the officers standpoint there isn't this cloud over his or her head here they are receiving this award but at the same time there's some investigation going on out there and the other part i don't want to have any action that the

commission takes or the department takes in general to at all be having any suggestion of in any way standing in the way or not standing in the way is not the right word but casting some kind of cloud in terms of the independent of the investigation. their worthy of it but there's an investigation. it feels like there's, you know, a cart and horse codify thing going on here. i don't want us to be, you know, interpreted as taking some action that somehow flies in the face of another investigation. in part it's why it's put to the

occ that's why is there any complaint that's been registered with the occ so we will know about it if there's something in the department liquor id or a criminal charge we ought to know about it. so it's a long w0i7b9d around way of i'd be in favor forgave of a disclosure so we have it calendared appropriately as a personnel matter. do you see a problem with it attach - >> i'm the chief of police. >> (laughter). >> yes. you are. >> i wanted to let dave off the hook. >> it's codify my call (laughter). >> so this isn't productive.

there's a thousand years of police experience in that room. there's an order that has checks and balances. if you've ever sat in that room it's heated it's almost enforceable for an officer is not to get a metal it's a standing applause. it's a thorough thing it's transparent it's your prerogative to ask for more investigation to draw something out. you can ask anything you want to ask at&t any point. we'll not further a recommendation to you that has a cloud over it.

i believe that the generation of this particular acquire was around the fact that the da's vegsdz are still open and sometimes, it takes years and it's not fair to the officer because the investigation itself is complete and in the hands of the da to merely issue the declaration. i'm going is a they're a slam dunk but the vegetates we do is good. yet still for this commission if you'd like to separate something out as expressed in the order ask for further investigation it isn't broken we don't need to fix it. if someone want to ask for a disclosure but please we're laboring over the most honorable thought-out practice and policy

in one of the most historic police departments in the country and we're making it sound like we do is on a wing and prayer it's not fair >> may i respond. thank you cohesive. i know this is a subject of a great grateful passion it's a beautiful beautiful component of the department. i certainly want to clarify that any statement i've made is not intended at all to be detracting from this about how far ceremony and the process around that. the only question i pose is you know if in one of those rare instances one in a thousand or whatever applicant that come forward if there's something out there is there any harm in simply providing disclosure and

so we all say i'm familiar with that beef heard about that in the commission and getting on b with that rather than obeying being surprised when a fellow commissioner hears something else and it's the night for voting and it has not been on the agenda properly >> that's not accurate a. there was nothing nobody that was mislead into the particular incident was closed and again - >> and it's not still and a right. right there's no suggestion at all that anybody was trying to how wide a ball or anything it's just a matter of somebody a commissioner heard something brought it to our attention and we didn't have time to talk it out. so if there was something there

if we have an understanding >> commissioner, i respectfully say that's not the case. >> can you i want to say i recognize those awards are a huge deal. i've been to a lot of ceremonies and understand and appreciate they're a symbol of sacrifice and service. when i sit up there and have the honor 6 seeing the officers get the awards it's amazing. part of the reason i bring this up i think the only part of this process needs fixing to be frank is that piece of it the commissioners getting the information if there's a a pending occ complaint and an investigation or a da investigation at least we

receive that information. i was in a difficult spot i'm not going to point out one case it's not frequent where one of the 3 not just the da piece but an intermittently fairdz the person gets the award it depends upon on the commission to figure out what's going on we could all figure out this did it maintains to do that. i didn't handle it well, when i was presented with that situation i already apologize i didn't handle it well, but part of why i think it's great to talk about this is for us to practice going forward so another commissioner liquor me can't be in that situation speaker i think the best rule is

if there's a pending one of the 3 i'm sorry hold on cohesive. unless it takes for forever for an investigation so none of the commission you it's such a sacred process i don't think i've ever voted no on o a metal of honor. so it would be better for the whole commission if it could be noted or better yet wait until the investigation is over. it's i was in an walked situation i'm trying to correct that going forward. i know a couple years ago i saw a news article this has happened we've had this problem. another point the reason for the

objection cc poise if there's a pending investigation and the board has not reviewed it and issued a decision then there's a possibility that that could end up out the policy and go to the commission. we've been in difficult places before but this is needing a roll of thump >> the fireman discharge review board meets every two weeks and the metal are given twice a year so nobody is - that's an comboenlt that the farmlands discharge board would not have met. i can't remember in my time an

open internal affairs going forward you references something. so my memory it happened at least twice i want to ask the department to look through the record and have we ordered any metals of honor not that internal affairs is pending and we think that will go in policy. i do recall i'm going to call them out but i recall two times he want to award those difficult swishgdz because as a commission we want to vote yes and not be in that situation >> commissioner da jose do you want to add something.

so cohesive listen to me closely when i said haphazardly i made a poor choice of words. it's a fabulous process so let's get that straight. my vocabulary was not good. i want to thank all the commissioners here bus it feels cleaning and good. it's a go decision going forward. i know i mean the process i think is the way it is it should stay the same it's a great process. i think we're talking about going forward with the commission perhaps we should talk with the commission secretary and talk about any investigation going on so we can make an informed decision or if

we need to go in closed session. i also agree with the cohesive that a delay is not - a delay is not fair for an officer but to make an informed decision to know if we should complainant it into closed session i'm not saying that i think we should discuss it we should be talking about the d g orchestrates having our secretary give us a notification that this thing is pending and move forward that way or k4r5r7bd it for closed session with the understanding those are role their you fixed. >> and important awards and

honors for officers who put their lives in jeopardy. i think we should know what we're deciding on we should include our secretary going forward that's what i'm talking about importing. it's not the departments process that process is well vetted. so to have the information. i think commissioner kingsley was saying i was agreeing with to make an informed decision. i don't want to offense anyone >> just to round it out. commissioner chinning. >> i know this has been a interesting time for this

discussion. i want to suggest we calendar this as apple action item in january or february to talk about this again and adjusting the disclosure piece or a waiting period that we do it structurally try to address the concern that's been happening for quite a long time. so we can do something structurally i don't want to vote no on a metal. i prefer a process where we're not put in this situation where we're taking a vote that you motive harm the integrity of our process with the internal fairdz and investigations if it's a policy that goes in front of us >> i want to say with a particular issue that happened in this kind.

with this particular ceremony we're not talking about it was apparent at the time it was a pending case that was recent. so the issue is not whether we knew something was going on but we should have a discussion i'm happy to talk about this but let's be mindful to solve the problem ahead and have commissioners all look at the packet. i think when we start tinge egging with something that the police department has set up it's not good >> i suggest this is sound and the practice is sound as is.

i think the commissioners da joe's have the secretary make a note it's already been distrusting discussed in this order would be the best use of the chiefs time >> the commission as ultimate authority already to vote yes or no. i agree with the cohesive that if the commission secretary can gusts a heads up of names pending that will be greatly appreciated and that issue can be bought if we need to in closed session. we don't need to rework this. candidly i've been on this commission and i've been to this i've done officer involved shooting and i've never seen an

officer shooting incident come before us for a metal. yes, sir. there's a civil litigation i'm not going to allow our officers who are involved in a metal situation to wait four or five years. we have ultimate authority if we want to vote no we'll vote no. we can go into closed session. there's no need for further discussion. i respect the individuals that are involved. it loses it's merit and value. gold metal four years down the rod is not a great metal. i know the occ does a great

investigation and police department and internal affairs can close those in less than a year. everybody is waiting. it's clear to the public there's a officer investigation for an officer involved shooting. the fireman the the management control division so there's a lot of vesting there's investigations every time. so that's my position on that and commissioner chaney appreciate our discussion and you put out appropriate apologizes but i still think we have the ultimate say and i say we can vote no >> i would like to think about

how to adjust this it make sense is have the secretary look through this and note it for us. we need to put this somewhere it doesn't have to be not definitely a d go but something for further commissioners can have this process in place for the disability of our own process because we have to deal with the outcome of the internal investigations. i know there's a disagreement about the awards i'm going to talk about it off lion but there's been several of those cases. i want to make sure we address it in is systematic way so this is done right going forward for our own integrity of our own

process. it has to be with the the commission >> i would suggest we talk with the city attorney or the secretary it's part of the secretaries duty in how to calendar it. i don't know if we need to amend it so maybe why don't we talk to her and come back and side what's the best way to address this. >> i want to say one last thing as a police commissioner you know everybody that's been in a shooting. it should be no surprise in the your new to the commission i think all we need to do