consideration is stunning to me. i think less than accurate on the part of your staff. so if indeed the not the attempt of this department and this staff and this ordinance to do that, what is the harm in stating it does not apply? it applies in the tsb and you guys recommended that it be in the tdif last year. >> thank you, mr. welch. i do believe that needs to be clarified. i ask the director or somebody to please explain it. >> mr. welch is correct. there was that discussion. there has been a 2-year discussion about this issue with regard to the transportation sustainability

program which is not yet in place. there was that discussion last year with the tidf. the change is made. it was not put in place. this ordinance doesn't change that. it's not proposed at this time. there is certainly going to be discussions about this in the future. this ordinance does not change whether it applies to housing, any type of housing. >> perhaps we should ask mr. welch to circulate back to the originate or to speak about that. we are here to deal with what is in front of us. if it's required i would suggest it's obtained by the legislator of this. >> commissioner antonini? >> i believe i remember that a

year ago. it's the question of whether or not we should exempt affordable housing from the fees that were being discussed at that time or not . i think the key of this thing is no. 1, housing is not being charged the fee, any kind of housing and no. 2, any kind of development agreement will be subject to whatever the conditions of the agreement are and one would assume based on those two things if any fee would be charged, it would be charged equally and not specifically on affordable housing and not on other housing. that's what this is basically does not charge any fee to any housing. >> commissioner borden? >> i would agree with that. what we would do, i'm going to recommend approval and if this legislation would change in impact housing that we want this referred to this commission. i don't think we are in a position, not that

there is anything wrong with this language. i read health and human services as applied to hospitals. we have not discussed this in you have to take this language and incorporate it and no. 2, this advisory will be heard at the board of supervisors and they can do whatever they want. if we can state we support the legislation as it currently stands and if this legislation were to mutate in any other form and talked about housing, we would want it to be referred. so with that, i'm going to move approval with the note that this legislation should be referred to the commission should this legislation specifically begin to or change to touch housing because that is not the basis for our recommendation. >> second. >> commissioner hillis? >> sorry, that's fine.

>> commissioners, there is a motion and a second adding a finding that if the legislation as it currently reads is ever amended to include housing in the future that it be rereferred back to the planning commission. on that motion commissioner antonini, borden, hillis, moore, sugaya, chair wu. that motion passes

unanimously 6-0. places you on item 12. hyde street 1040 hyde street. >> good afternoon, vice-president wu and members of the commission and department members staff. the item before you is a request for conditional use authorization to establish a bar doing business as liquid gold located within the polk street. the applicant wants to sell a wine. the definition of a bar allows abc license to sell beer and wine and on sale beer. the project sponsor has agreed to only pursue a license 42 an allowing the sale of beer and wine on or off the premises. it would occupy a 140

skwaeft -- square feet. three letters of opposition from the neighborhood of concentration of bars and alcohol establishments in the neighborhood and eight letters in support and concerned about the concentration of bars in the neighborhood and the impact on their business and 60 signatures opposed to the project. many were received after your packets were delivered. i have them here. the department recommends approval with conditions and believes the project is necessary and desirable for the following reasons. the bar will function as a beer and wine bar

only. while the bar is permitted to operate until 2:00 a.m.. this is also captured in the conditions of the approval. the project sponsor has agreed to sell beer and wine and keep it in the rear in the bar. no sale should be provided for consumption off the premises. the general plan includes 20 percent eating and drinking for a balance of commercial use. how far, it also states that cluster and eating and drinking use that parking is shared might be more appropriate. the proposed bar would not increase the eating and drinking at the frontage adds only a point in an area that is well served by

transit. the planning code with drinking issues defined as commercial frontage within 300 feet of the property with the same zoning district shall not exceed 30 percent of the total commercial frontage. with the proposed bar, the area immediate would go from 14-15 percent well below the tlesh -- threshold of 25 percent. it would provide goods and services to the surrounding neighborhood. this concludes staff's presentation and happy to answer any questions. >> thank you. project sponsor?

>> my father here to the right. they are in support of my project. my project is located in knob hill neighborhood. it is a craft beer and small wine tasting room and retail store. we will be selling and serving wine here in san francisco. you might ask how is liquid gold different from bars and liquor stores in the knob hill neighborhood? what mates it desirable? first of all it's the unique products and selection. it's san francisco made products. beer and wine.

the smaller the brewery, the winery, the better. i'm a supporter of small local businesses. liquid bar is not one that has a sports bar feel. liquid gold is a public tasting room and retail store with an emphasis on education and learning. we'll be offering beer and wine, paired with light foods and meet the brewer and wine maker events to allow customers to get more education from the makers themselves. we'll have a beer and wine clubs to introduce new products to the members. customers will be able to take home bottles of beer and wine at their discretion. a better palette for beer and wine. by doing so

we are supporting other local businesses and we are helping the local economy in creating more jobs. liquid gold's tasting room will not only be quaint and comfortable but will also education the patrons about the city's history. many don't know that during the gold rush that many breweries started here in the city and were demolished during prohibition. we have a very rich brewing tradition in the city. many don't know in the knob hill neighborhood in california and hyde there used to be a cable car. i intend to establish that in my bar. liquid gold is here to serve the

neighborhood. people spend a lot of times in their homes and need a diversity to go. liquid gold will provide an alternative to these neighbors. we'll not be attracting the party people. i have already reached out to the neighborhood groups and local business owners and have not received any opposition to my project. most are excited to hear about liquid gold. one of my potential neighbors, the owner of flowers, she was very excited about my project and we even talked about possibly working in the near future to support each other's businesses. finally as a lifelong san franciscans, liquid #2k3w0e8d gold will be a contribution to this city. this is something i

can mostly importantly be proud of. i thank you you for your support in my project. >> thank you. opening up for public comment. i have two speaker cards. linda chapman and robert garcia. >> linda chapman from knob hill neighbors. i think there is a lot of consensus in this area is that we do not need anymore alcohol licenses than we already have. even though at this corner we only have one real bar problem at california and hyde and the other one that is not a problem. this is a third. there is no necessity

from adding another bar. as to the special types of qualifications and limitations they are citing, he is the sound the same to me like the poorhouse. same kind of wine tasting and it turned into a mess from the people who lived there. you heard from across the street and you didn't agree with them about the noise and disruption. people who come into our neighborhood from the party buses wonder back and forth. it's not like they only go to one place. california street as well as polk have changed. when i wrote to chief sur about what was going on on california street, like the peaceful village, i arrived in my neighborhood on eleven --

leavenworth. in this case chief sur stepped in. he heard the tapes that you heard of what was going on on polk street. the football games every night. the streets that you couldn't walk down because they were completely congested and you have to get police to get in the front door. chief sur did a whole plan and made a big change. there is only so much you can do when there are all those establishments there already. on california street it was unsafe to progress as i was going down. it was in the neck -- next block that is true. but the conditions that are not so violent are

occurring in the rec's room around the corner. these are coming from the buses. on polk street there is an entire block that i walk down where there is one establishment left and everything else is alcohol licenses. the excuse is that there is empty store fronts. that's the excuse for all the empty store fronts. they were all empty for a while and then someone else would be able to move in there. >> good afternoon,

commissioners. my name is robert garcia. from the tenants and merchants association for 20 years. we've had a lot of accomplishments, random prostitution circuit out of the area. it's starting to come back and it's coming back on hyde and california. they have been making arrest for prostitution all the way up to jackson street. that's because of the approval of more bars, extended hours. we have a thai restaurant open until 3:00 in the morning. this is not needed. this is a loophole. this type 42 license is a loophole. there are 41 in the

city now. we have 2 now and three applications. they found a loophole where they don't want a license. this is wrong. this should not happen. we have too many. there are 9 liquor licenses in 1 block right here where this 1040 address is. 9 liquor licenses. the posting was misleading. it says on saechl -- sale. it's a 42. that is misleading. the community didn't understand that. i have people calling me. i called the abc. we need to get that addressed. that's misleading. 1:00 in the morning. that's not the time to be ordering. we have people

gone there and all of a sudden they are losing control. they get out of there, they don't know what happens until they get an order of a case or two of wine that they have purchased. this is happening. we don't need it. you can't walk into a regular liquor store and start tasting everything before you purchase it. this is a bad concept. it's not good for the neighborhood and please, give us some help here. we just do not need anymore liquor licenses. there is no shortage of places to get a drink. thank you. >> thank you. any further public comment? >> good afternoon commissioners. i actually reside very near to this location and my wife and i are in support of it. i want to point out that these folks did

extensive outreach with the assistance of supervisor chiu's office to the neighborhood groups and merchants associations and non-profits of record in the area and actually they reached out to a few additional community organizations including to the ones head up by the previous speakers. invitations to perform outreach to organizations received no responses, middle polk and lower polk neighbors and the associations and other groups none of which responded asking for a presentation by the project sponsor. instead there's no opposition. i just wanted to point that out. thank you. >> thank you.

>> had you. good afternoon. my name is jil. i represent the hideout bar. the bar on the corner of hyde which has not caused a problem. i'm here representing the bar that my husband and i own. we are asking that this application be denied for numerous reasons. we did not submit comments prior to this because be were not aware of this new opening. we did receive the mailing of the public hearing and as a result of that and pulling the package off the website after it was posted on december 6th. we circulated the customer petition that miss burns referred to. we also discussed it with the bar tenders and as a result you received at the

mails and from 60 of our customers. we are talking a small business here. so that might not seem like a large number but it is a lot of comment from one of the 3 bars located from the block of this proposed beer and wine bar. yes, it's only beer and wine. no hard liquor. our bar alone, half of our sales is beer and wine. we have -- i don't run the bar. my husband does. he couldn't be here today. but we have about 20 years on tap in the bar. several of those four or five, i don't know the exact number are local. so we do support the local community. our customers often refer the hideout of a quiet comefy place

they can come to as opposed to other problems going on in other bars. our bar tenders know if someone has had too much to drink, it's time to go home. they ask them to go home and they call them a cab if necessary. it's not the place where locals come, sure there is going to be a problem at a drinking establishment sometimes. what we are asking for is the employment and economic opportunities that timothy discussed we strongly disagree with those. we are talking small locations. we've been there since 93 and have seen numerous businesses close as a result because they couldn't make it. our bartenders depend on their tip

income. it's really not going to make a difference. i'm also concerned about the 25 percent frontage. >> your time is up. >> thank you. is there any additional public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. >> commissioner antonini? >> this is an interesting case. i drive by the hideout many times and it really looks like a cool barment i should stop in. many times i'm on the way to my work out. i don't really see the conflict. i do see all the signatures from customers and the patient -- petition and thoughts sorts of things but it would seem there might be a different type of customer that might go to the craft brewery. this is becoming very

popular. brings them in the neighborhood and then they might decide to try the hideout the next time they come in. the craft beer thing is popular. there is this place called the golden gate center, i don't know that it's run by the city, but it's on powell and sutter street. there is a visitor information center and they have a bar and restaurant from there. i hear from my children and their friends is the reason they like to go there is it's appealing to have these craft beers. there is something to be said about that. the nature of the beers and the history part of it. it's my feeling that

it's the quality of the establishment and not the number of establishments. you can have a situation where you have two 2 bars in a whole neighborhood and they are terrible and there is lots of problems associated with them and they are not properly run. and you can have a neighborhood where you have 8 bars and they are well policed and well-taken care of and they don't present problems. it's not the numbers. it's how well the customers behave and how they are policed. so i'm generally in favor of this. we'll see what the other commissioners have to say. >> commissioner borden? >> yeah. what we heard is from the project sponsor and a family that is local, they are natives. they are talking about a concept that is different, locally crafted beer and wines. we can talk about the hours. based on the concept that they

have described, it's a little different. i under the hideout is worried about their business. there is a reason that mcdonald's and all of those chains locate across the street because there is a clustering model. i work with ibm and you cluster. if there is one place to go and that place is too crowded, you don't go back there, but if there is another place, you go there. it's not like a zero sum game. the other is given this business is offering something different, not everyone is going to like the local beers. sometimes you shop at whole foods or trader joes, but you want the brands that you like that are never at those stores. there is enough variety and differentiation between what's described here that it

shouldn't impact the hideout. doesn't mean that people that patronize the hideout don't checkout this place. the business is not to protect someone else's individual business. that's not our role. in terms of what's looking at what's here, there have been a lot of challenges. i used to live in the neighborhood of jackson and hyde. it's not the same vitality as you would say maybe on polk street which has it's own struggles as well. it's a totally different kind of model. i'm inclined to support this application based on what's represented and the concept. it a small space, not a very large space which gives me some confidence in it. i would be willing to, if people

wanted to cut back the hours or do a 1 year review which is another thing we have done with other projects where we've asked for projects to report back to us to report back in a year and look at how things are going. the problems on polk street, people don't walk uphill typically because it's inconvenient and they are too drunk. it's reality. if you go polk street south of california street versus polk street, it's amazing that you don't have the same sort of clustering and dynamic. i think there is just the particular mixture that happens in that local polk area. i will make a motion after his comments. >> commissioner sugaya? >> i like the concept. i think

the idea of having this kind of establishment is great. the only problem i have with it is our approval is not for this specific establishment. we are approving a conditional use permit to allow a bar to go in there and hopefully, i don't know what the motion is going to be, but if there is approval, i would hope that this business stays around for a long time. because if it doesn't, the conditional use still there and another operator can come in and make it a regular type bar whatever that, however we want to characterize that, hard liquor or whatever. i suppose they would have to get a different abc