again, we stick by the rules of the chart section ores cot organization code. but if part of the information goal in this hearing is to shed light on the question in a city as in marvelous as san francisco as cosmopolitan as it is it's growing in its cost prohibiting nature if part of this hearing is to try to understand a little bit about what those options are you know, i applauded your efforts because this hadn't been well probed. i think that if there was any take away from this basic information i'd like to see as shelving a greater participating with the police department on this question of 10 b not

strictly of one department over another but because of the cost that's pass on to the taxpayers and the people who are essential showing up with dollars. what may not be misunderstand the deputy sheriff from a peace officer is the difference of 23 percent. so it's the cost of that time and depending upon if that's right time and half of that delta between a deputy sheriff and a ranking and file member of the police department it's a 23 percent less differential. with the aggregate concern of the city and the cities intention is to address ways we can reduce foes or make access a

little more portable in some respect i look to our, you know, our brothers in sfpd to help us to be able to work collectively in answering the larger call and help to make san francisco fun that access to fun and at the same time help answer questions of affordability. i believe we have a role as the department it's a unique gesture because i understand this wall has not been well explained before from the sheriff's department but as a supervisor i knew that there are ways we can creativelyly present two members within the city making sure that sfpd continues to do the

incredible work they do on 10 b and comparison the wreck pens and assist from the sheriff's department vantage point to help the taxpayer into the recipient promoter. if you have any questions, i'll be happy to answer them if you like >> commissioner joseph and commissioner akers. contestant when we talk about the costs we talk about the admin charge we pay for the police officers or nicole we pay for the sheriff and then there's an administrator charge do you know if that's true with the sheriff's department as well as the police officer >> typically the only routine 10 b that our department has

done as 49ers and that's a thing of the past. so the last 10 b especially that was interfaced with this body was the broadway tunnel corridor i have no speaker cards to provide our what grounds and there was never in compensation for that and put in our budget in anticipation of helping district 3 to provide what grounds before. there was no attached fees whatsoever to that in anticipation to have the ability to do that. but on 10 b that's up to the department head. if we want to establish an administrator fee that's our discretion >> and that's over and above. >> i have to help explain when i was a supervisor to explain

thees cot process and the rating process of the larger and small street fairs. you know, there would be a fair amount of concern about rising costs and levels of personnel required for security services and the tacked on fees attached to that. i think for the entertainment commission the board of supervisors and mayor again, if the core necessarily of this discussion is about keeping intact excellent security services sfpd rise to that occasion but in scaping that obsolesce of services on affordability that's something else that needs to be entertained my i want to thank

you for providing the weeks ago when you do the north beach task force >> thank you very much for coming here tonight. i was wondering have you had the sheriff's office been asked to help with gay pride or folsom street fair or anything like that in the past in a large capacity >> no, when we're asked new years eve for example, this is not a 10 b matter this is what is a mutual aid that's not dpeentd so we provide weeks ago and squads depending upon on the size as we did when bart police asked us we try to be as xhomd as possible. i'm incentive to the subjective over time. so it the promoter or whoever is

receiving the bill that's why it's important that the overtime we occur in assisting no question i want my deputies to get some more 10 b action because it goes to the great good of the city and a having is there ever an incidents the police department has the first right of refusal do they ever refuse >> i think they make calculated staffing decisions that's wise on their part. in lulz of is staffing they feel like they need some assistance they wisely decide that. but it's not guilty on events as large. on 49ers it was doesn't when we provided the weeks ago but america's cup what have you if

there's a well resource third party person who is paying for the time of security services and since we're city and county with who law enforcement agencies again, i think it sends the right message we're looking to i think provide the most intact security services of the highest rated nature excepted and look to its not to cost prosperity >> great other commissioner questions or comments. >> it saves money. >> and thank you it's just a discussion that hadn't taken place. we look to our partners in the pd but its pretty much an insider in city hall how this

works and how people navigate the system >> now we have an opportunity if there's no other commissioners comments to open this up for public comment. i know there are some people from folsom >> i'm not sure going to folsom fair so i guess he couldn't make it i knew he had a board meeting so possibly something happened. >> no problem we'll open this up for public comment for two minutes each. thank you very much for everyone who will be speaking. i'm going to go in the order of how i received those. the first person

(calling names) yeah. yeah. and then right after that i have (calling names) and yeah, you can just sign you u up >> i'm joan holiday and i'm the producer of bluegrass. i knew that tonight's discussion was about 10 b. i have used and have 10 bs for the last ten years. i think the program has been very successful for us. and part of the reason it's been successful though is the officers at the richmond station who were working with us loved the event. they're very, very in town with

the events vibe. and know that how it works and how it runs. they had had the whole process that that gentlemen, we do the whole process we don't have to go toes cot but they give me a estimate if the officers don't show up if they're sick i don't get charged. my head of security and the horses we hire where to work and where to push people over the 13 years and god i've had 20 of same officers over the years i hope that stays the same.

you have 30 seconds >> its cost prohibit active. i love the station bye >> may i ask a point of information. do you have an average of how many 10 b officers higher strictly bluegrass >> been one hundred and 10. >> and we do get a list of where they are. >> great carolyn and others hello commissioners. i'm the director of programs with the united players and this is our director of operations. we're located in the south of market and we have a really great relationship with captain

redman. we it seems to me a lot of changes have taken care of with 10 b i'm happy to hear. we had a horrible experience in 2009 we were planning our tenth anniversary it was an event for the alumni program we expected hundreds of people we were working with the hotel for most and two days before the event we get a call from the hotel saying the sfpd said we couldn't have the event unless we were hiring 10 b officers. we were told it t to have 10 offers e officers that would cost 5 h $4,000 but then 2 and there was no alternative.

you asked the question about what happens when the person didn't can't afford that there was no negotiation. we were told if we didn't higher those officers we couldn't have our farther which we paid for at the hotel. we were in tiers literally because we were expecting all those people it was supposed to be a great event for our families and the young people and it at the end up being a scary experience so i'm glad there were changes made. you know, i wanted to share that experience so for larger event it make sense but four smaller events there needs to be a guideline >> your event took place inside the hotel. >> yes, ma'am and did you require any permits for that.

>> no and we had security. >> you can have two imaginations or minutes. >> i wanted to say a little bit more someone mentioned the budgeted e 3wib9 of it and the cost we remember a brand new nonprofit so we had pretty limited resources we have about $3,000 for this event. so, so when it came down to the last event i have a copy of the check. it at the end up costing us $960 that was a third of our budget so it costs us half of what we raised. it's for small nonprofit organizations when those things you accompany at the last minute. it's painful to our pocketbooks. so it sounds like things have

changed we be planning another 20th year anniversary. >> great. thank you very much. next up (calling names) >> hello, i'm chris i'm with the inner sunset park neighbors. we've been holding live event 8 events we're currently live closing one block between 9th and 10th. we had two events and the cost was significant. that he found we had to make it a profit event and fill the space with vendors we didn't want to do that. so we scaled the block down to one block and still are the cost of pcos and police officers that

was 28 hundreds. and in any case we have to cover that plus the restrooms andes cot. so we had to recuperate that we've been fortunate enough to work with the car very well station. there's no reason i need to be here so they've backed that off. we've had pco officers we weren't sure what they were doing. if a pco officer was in an intersection the drivers didn't understand they were not there to police the intersection that were we made the decision we had a christmas party and christmas tree and carol and christmas music and weren't selling anything and it was wonderful.

if you could help us do this and get away from the street models they have to be big profits their where you think by nonprofits. as you can see with the streets and a don't you ask you a point of information. when you started out our event were you ever selling alcohol >> never. >> so next up susan king, guy carson and others. >> thank you for having this hearing. i think it's an important opportunity to a talk about event organizing. i'm suing kinky work with liveable city we proud the events around san francisco. we are fortunate to have the strong support of the family.

but this year or last year rather we embarked on a new initiative to create small-scale play sdrts streets to teach people to organize their own events. we're not continuing the program and one of the main reasons is the process of organizing community run events that are family focused without alcohol are really out of reach of most of the community organizes. and people don't have a couple of hundred of dollars around. we ended up subsidizing those. i'm appreciative of the sheriff's department and police department and i appreciate your really i don't want to seem ungravel but there has to be a

way to address public safety and still make those events particularly community events like the united players do in sunset sunday to energy local neighborhood to take care of control of their streets but the minute you want to have kids play ball and you need off duty police officers. so anyways i wanted to put that out there. there's room for further you discussion how to empower our neighborhood and a make those events using the police academy cadets to relieve the burden >> thank you

(calling names). >> hello commissioners. very happy to be talking to you on my first day of director of the music and culture organizations >> feeling a little bit under the weather but i want to speak for you members while we applaud commissioner hydes effort to bring this sensitive subject to a public forum we want to encourage everyone to take a citywide approach and looking at the departmental costs not only with the 10 b program but with the parks that are having a negative impact on our promoters inability to host open air events especially free events. we think now is the time

especially with the councilmember kersey new expanded e ic now is the time to take into account that on a serious level >> thank you (calling names). >> good evening i'm with the harvey milk club. i'm going to let tom talk about the specifics. as you all know the milk club has been concerned with the entertainment and night life and how they effect the characteristic of the city. i hear about large promoters very appreciative in ms. holiday made a good point they've worked well, with the station and it's

been a plus for harvey stricker bluegrass but for events on a shoe string this is a problem. we've been in discussions with united players also the number of police are arbitrary and inxhicht we want to put-down some lodge behind those procedures. i know that smaller events are forced to leave the city it's not tied into 10 b but 9 book fair that was held inside the fair building for at least 10 years has had to move to oakland because the recreation and parks are issuing recks. and i urge you to consider 10 b

in terms of making that a reasonable and logistical application >> (calling names) and after that we're happy to take other members. >> i'm president of the harvey milk club. hard french is a promotion group that we produce in terms of attendees and budget relatively small community orientated events. every year we provide a signature event we're aiming to keep our prices low so people who don't have a lot of funds can get in and hopefully to grow ourselves to create bigger

events. our first pride party we somehow grafted together of the funds for a street closure and the associated costs with 10 b offers officers additional coupled with the venue security and all the things were you mean so cost prohibit active we didn't turn a profit and we have not revisited the opportunity to do any larger scale outdoor events. we would like to grow to the point where getting to be with folks in the fulsome provider that focuses on the community event we can't consider at this point. so any efforts on the part of the commissions to make street

closures to try to do something with the costs of 10 b to make it easier for us to throw event for the community would be greatly appreciate >> any other any public comment on this issue. if you are please go ahead and line up >> president tan and i'm mark. i have a real mixture feeling. i think in certain events i'm involved with the harvey strictly it's amazing how the police officers coordinate that that event but i'm called back to any memory of an electronic dance event where we ended up in federal court because at the last minute the police decided they needed one hundred and 50

police officers. now 10 b is running money. they won't give you one but 2 we're close to $300 an hour so you have a two hour event your wiping out about 90 percent of the fence that could be done in san francisco. we settled for 10 officers and that's quite a bit when ms. holiday said she had half a million people with 10 offered. it's pulling numbers out of the hat if you don't like it sorry. sometimes, it's done at the last minute like a harvey street

party. i've been if n involved if the hate street council for many years and i see the costs from the city are going up and we're getting to the point we can't afford it and we're grandfathered in so thank you >> any other last minute comment. seeing none, public comment is closed >> i think commissioner joseph go ahead. >> i want to say i live on a 1 block street up in the hills and this past summer and i don't know if the sunday street people were behind this doing community play streets but the folks on my street got together we got a bunch of barricades delivered and we closed off half the street and all the neighborhoods

got together and put up a bounce i didn't house and people brought out a couple i have boom boxes and we had a party in the street. nobody sold anything. the neighbors got to know each other. i'm not sure that's the kind of play streets you're talking about but it was a great event. i've lived on any streets 16 years. so i didn't take a lot of money to do that and which we didn't have 10 b. i acquired of my next door neighbor if she got a street closure and she said she did. i guess there's certain street closures that don't require 10 b. if itself inconsistent you know,

i think i have a problem with paid security. someone said paid security so if theirs volunteers who are supposed to be - is it proposed to be paid security because folsom have people that are not pied >> i think they were referring to an event in a hotel. >> other paid security. i thought 234er7 talking about all right. then in a venue it's different. you know, in ail honest i've had nothing but great experiences with 10 b so i don't know what to say about that. it's costly and the administrator fees tacked on is costly but at the end of the day they also turned out great and