have is a guideline or guidebook so this is how i can estimate for myself >> in the administrator code it's not written down to the exact dollar amount but what it is for the time and a hoof. >> but the process. >> yes. it's no our department manual and in the traffic code or the transportation code 6.6 that outlines thees cot and how much to be charged. commissioner joseph and then commissioner hyde >> i used 10 b a lot. in this past year i had an opportunity to use the k9 units after the boston bombing we used them for pride and i'm a dog lover they won't let me pet

them. so i have a question 10 b is requested and you present them to the proefrment what's the process to come to some further agreement like for instance, there's a hypothetical street fair you think we can sgo do this with four officers and not 10 how do you resolve those issues. >> there's a process in the transportation code for them to ask for resolution and there's also the permit officers and the sergeant special event sergeant at the station work with the promoters to come to a resolution. it's generally considered

outside how many police and other private security to hire to mitigate some of those concerns >> so it's subjective as to the captain of the station and the permit officer. >> they would be one of the first stops in this process. >> okay. thank you. >> commissioner hyde. >> hi, thanks for coming out. >> you're welcome and so there's a centralized office is that a new development. i had - and a prior to november of last year not 2013, 2012 it was disseminated at the station there was coordinated saeshths that dealt with those needs but in november of 2012 it was all centralized >> and what was the idea of strel it. i'm trying to figure out you can't what the need

>> that was a decision made and a deputy hoffman they wanted to be able to centralize the resources so if we dealt with data breakers we were directly in connection with f organization b cross the hall. >> you also said people directly all and higher 10 b especially for weddings and stuff like that. i understand that often a small party or stuff like that can then have steno b placed upon them without their request is that true? like if it was a small fundraiser i police can say you need 10 b officers and this is the need

>> i believe without any requirement to hire 10 b be it there be some type of permitting if there's going to be a lane closure those would require an investigation. >> so like a fundraiser and a small venue. >> the only time a small venue if there's a consideration for alcohol. it would be a consideration >> and then i was wondering another thing that i know that recalling sales force had a event plainer he got an itemized billy said he hadn't seen an

itemized bill for 10 b officers. do itemized bills go out to everyone that used 10 b officers >> i can't speak for 0 them but since the office has been centralized they're given r given a estimate. we have no idea to know how long an event is going to be if their event is more than 10 hours it will be more or if less then less. it's an estimate but resourcefully it's close iowa to wasn't they're going to pay >> someone pays a down payment and there's a certain amount of

officers assigned. is it true that the officers are required to show up that day? >> if - >> i'm asking questions that have been brought to me. a few people had said there are a certain number of officers assigned to a party or street fire. is it the number of officers that are assigned are they guaranteed to show up and have that many officers there >> we do our very best to provide what's requested of us. 10 b is a volunteer participation there's inform mandate. if we seek anti 10 officers sign up the only thing that will prevent them from showing up is

they're sick. for some reason we're not able to staff the event we give that information to the event coordinated >> again according to there are certain street fairs that are grand father. >> yes. >> there's some discussion but generally there's this kind of set number they'll continue to use year after year. >> i spoke to cindy earlier today about that it was in the e-mail communication. there are certain event the grandfathered events that you speak of. under the transportation code 6.6 there's a pay scale for police services so that pay scale is used for the textbook b services or police services for

that event. she told me what happens is if the event has changed and we'll speak of the alley event. that was originally grandfathered in but that event changed its footprint it expand to cover the event it was larger additional services on top of that scale price would be asked for >> i'm glad you brought that up one of the things i know when dorsey alley was he will having trouble for public services concerns they noted to expand the street. they now have a number of similar number of officers they have at the, if you will, u folsom street fair. are there like size

consideration and number of patrons that go into it. >> the scheduling of the etc. cot there's 23 hundred and 50 thousand and more than 2 hundred and 50 attendees would be the difference in pricing. >> you said there's certain guidelines for certain parties if they feel there's a certain party that might be out of control there're more. >> i know there are discussions and is alcohol going to be served and what kind of alcohol is that a public event or paid event to determine exactly you know how many people are going to be there and how long the alcohol is going to be served

and a okay. and finally. thank you very much for fielding all those questions. i'm just wondering is there an amount of time that the organization has to be novelist of when 10 b is going to, required of them >> i believe in the transportation code 6 there's a deadline in there i believe a couple of weeks prior to the event they finally lists the permitting. >> can 10 b added to that later. >> i believe if something changes. >> thank you very much. >> other commissioners comments. >> real quick. so the time of progress an event is planned a year in advance. so usually security needs are sdugsdz to whenes cot is doing their thing and the captains are

trying to figure out how much security the officers needed what's the actual timeline that's given to the promoter to at least look at the cost and have a chance to maybe if they don't think itself over burdening them they have a chance to address the issue or due process they can talk to a commander. if you're saying the code is only two weeks that's not you much time for an event promoter to get his budget together >> i reviewed the language i believe it's somewhere around two weeks. when we graft our estimates as soon as we get the information we comical it because he want as much time to get the officers scheduled so we can successfully make it >> in the past then how much

time have you been given. likees cot drops it on you two weeks before >> i don't believees cot drops it on us. recently, there was a wedding that popped up in a week. there's other event like oracle's coming back but we can optional work in their timeline as well. i know that this year with dream force there were issues for considerations with the construction projects that are actively occurring at the time how they were going to mitigate those issues to make the traffic flow and pedestrian flow. so it seems to me like there's a lot of time to plan those negligence but sometimes, it come out with a month ahead of

time >> i think that dream force and ail the corporate's i'm not concerned with more with the nonprofits we're going to lose them because they can't plan their budget but overall there's a planning financial stuff they could raise the money they need instead of being in the hole at the end of the event we're trying to streamline this. >> i'm not the there is i'll pass the concerns on to, you know, cindy and let me let her know there's a concern and maybe people can speed up their timelines. >> commissioner joseph. >> i want to say something if you know you're going to do a street fair you know it months

and months in advance. you don't have to go toes cot you can go 8 months ahead. if you know you're doing a street fair and understand whether you're a nonprofit you go toes cot in a timely fashion and get your street closure and go and get our 10 b. if a promoter waits for two weeks ago it's on him. he's got to be somewhat responsible in a business sort of way and go there early enough to get his 10 b in a timely fashion and it's also fair to the police and the other organization the control officers in parking and anything else they need to staff it >> if i can piggy back we've

had times when organize next year's call you us we'll give them a ballpark to give them an idea. there's ways to get the prices out there or concerns before accident finalized permit >> i'm back up on that one. it's true events go on but sometimes the word didn't come down how many they need, you know, how many 10 b officers they need. sometimes, it comes kind of late >> a lot of this comes down to predicts the cost and the number if it's subjective it will be hard for the promoters to say. >> any other commissioner

questions or comments. i see sheriff he'll be presenting >> if anyone is interested in any public comment? there are those pink speaker cards you want to pick one up before you speak >> i'm sheriff and happy new year commissioners. there's not a lot we can present. i've certainly more than happy to answer questions but i'll reflect in my prior capacity as a supervisor for seven years at district 5 that was for japantown and i was also a member of the budget committee often there would be requests of then promoters and neighborhood

organizations and small meetings and large events that would look to us to try to negotiate a better fair or rate because it can be cost permissible active for us to put on a mom and pop kind of event. we also look to and still do to the police department because in the charter 10 b is clear in its stipulation it provides the san francisco police department as the agency that has the first right of refusal in its determination how 10 b is administered in the city and county of san francisco. it also is attached to that first right of refusal their ability to visit other agencies to help provide services. back then when i was on the

committee of the services that weren't cord that he sfpd were less than he 10 percent so all services related in the cities is essential everything but less than one percent. now as sheriff it's interesting when we field phone calls about what roles we can provide inform 10 b i'm still reminded as supervisor and sheriff we have the second largest law enforcement agency in the city we have been 8 hundred and 50 peace officers that are credentialed in the same way and people we want to get them to you understand especially, if their first time promoters they'll call us and we refer them to the police department

again, we stick by the rules of the chart section ores cot organization code. but if part of the information goal in this hearing is to shed light on the question in a city as in marvelous as san francisco as cosmopolitan as it is it's growing in its cost prohibiting nature if part of this hearing is to try to understand a little bit about what those options are you know, i applauded your efforts because this hadn't been well probed. i think that if there was any take away from this basic information i'd like to see as shelving a greater participating with the police department on this question of 10 b not

strictly of one department over another but because of the cost that's pass on to the taxpayers and the people who are essential showing up with dollars. what may not be misunderstand the deputy sheriff from a peace officer is the difference of 23 percent. so it's the cost of that time and depending upon if that's right time and half of that delta between a deputy sheriff and a ranking and file member of the police department it's a 23 percent less differential. with the aggregate concern of the city and the cities intention is to address ways we can reduce foes or make access a

little more portable in some respect i look to our, you know, our brothers in sfpd to help us to be able to work collectively in answering the larger call and help to make san francisco fun that access to fun and at the same time help answer questions of affordability. i believe we have a role as the department it's a unique gesture because i understand this wall has not been well explained before from the sheriff's department but as a supervisor i knew that there are ways we can creativelyly present two members within the city making sure that sfpd continues to do the

incredible work they do on 10 b and comparison the wreck pens and assist from the sheriff's department vantage point to help the taxpayer into the recipient promoter. if you have any questions, i'll be happy to answer them if you like >> commissioner joseph and commissioner akers. contestant when we talk about the costs we talk about the admin charge we pay for the police officers or nicole we pay for the sheriff and then there's an administrator charge do you know if that's true with the sheriff's department as well as the police officer >> typically the only routine 10 b that our department has

done as 49ers and that's a thing of the past. so the last 10 b especially that was interfaced with this body was the broadway tunnel corridor i have no speaker cards to provide our what grounds and there was never in compensation for that and put in our budget in anticipation of helping district 3 to provide what grounds before. there was no attached fees whatsoever to that in anticipation to have the ability to do that. but on 10 b that's up to the department head. if we want to establish an administrator fee that's our discretion >> and that's over and above. >> i have to help explain when i was a supervisor to explain

thees cot process and the rating process of the larger and small street fairs. you know, there would be a fair amount of concern about rising costs and levels of personnel required for security services and the tacked on fees attached to that. i think for the entertainment commission the board of supervisors and mayor again, if the core necessarily of this discussion is about keeping intact excellent security services sfpd rise to that occasion but in scaping that obsolesce of services on affordability that's something else that needs to be entertained my i want to thank you for providing the weeks ago

when you do the north beach task force >> thank you very much for coming here tonight. i was wondering have you had the sheriff's office been asked to help with gay pride or folsom street fair or anything like that in the past in a large capacity >> no, when we're asked new years eve for example, this is not a 10 b matter this is what is a mutual aid that's not dpeentd so we provide weeks ago and squads depending upon on the size as we did when bart police asked us we try to be as xhomd as possible. i'm incentive to the subjective over time. so it the promoter or whoever is

receiving the bill that's why it's important that the overtime we occur in assisting no question i want my deputies to get some more 10 b action because it goes to the great good of the city and a having is there ever an incidents the police department has the first right of refusal do they ever refuse >> i think they make calculated staffing decisions that's wise on their part. in lulz of is staffing they feel like they need some assistance they wisely decide that. but it's not guilty on events as large. on 49ers it was doesn't when we provided the weeks ago but america's cup what have you if

there's a well resource third party person who is paying for the time of security services and since we're city and county with who law enforcement agencies again, i think it sends the right message we're looking to i think provide the most intact security services of the highest rated nature excepted and look to its not to cost prosperity >> great other commissioner questions or comments. >> it saves money. >> and thank you it's just a discussion that hadn't taken place. we look to our partners in the pd but its pretty much an insider in city hall how this

works and how people navigate the system >> now we have an opportunity if there's no other commissioners comments to open this up for public comment. i know there are some people from folsom >> i'm not sure going to folsom fair so i guess he couldn't make it i knew he had a board meeting so possibly something happened. >> no problem we'll open this up for public comment for two minutes each. thank you very much for everyone who will be speaking. i'm going to go in the order of how i received those. the first person

(calling names) yeah. yeah. and then right after that i have (calling names) and yeah, you can just sign you u up >> i'm joan holiday and i'm the producer of bluegrass. i knew that tonight's discussion was about 10 b. i have used and have 10 bs for the last ten years. i think the program has been very successful for us. and part of the reason it's been successful though is the officers at the richmond station who were working with us loved the event. they're very, very in town with

the events vibe. and know that how it works and how it runs. they had had the whole process that that gentlemen, we do the whole process we don't have to go toes cot but they give me a estimate if the officers don't show up if they're sick i don't get charged. my head of security and the horses we hire where to work and where to push people over the 13 years and god i've had 20 of same officers over the years i hope that stays