bottles on the street, in front of the bar, whether they come from the bar or not, the security guard, it is incumbent upon them to remove them, bottles are weapons. >> but they do not have the good neighbor policy at their disposal at this time. >> okay. let me finish. so then, he has been operating without a permit. >> correct. >> so, >> it is a temporary. >> does he have a temporary permit? >> he does not. >> so he is operating without a permit and in violation of our rules. and so, that is that. and having said that, thinking that the old permits transfer, and everything that we hear at this commission, my feeling is that if you are going to be a good business owner and you want to own a business, and especially a new business, it is your job to research what you need to do to run that business. what permits you need.

and you could not operate without a health permit. you can't have entertainment without an entertainment permit and so he is operating without a permit and so that to me is always a problem, so those are just my problems with it. i am not saying that we don't grant a permit. i am just saying that behavior is a problem to me. the security guard not, doing security. so, >> commissioner lee and then commissioner akers? >> and i have a clarification, then, so the build out that scott weiner did for updating the entertainment and so i thought that there was a transfer. >> yeah, there is an opportunity for a new owner to have a temporary permit, but they have to be in process within a window of time. >> right. >> i believe that it is ten days. they didn't come to us until after they had already done the transfer and gone to the abc and so, we began speaking with them in september, i believe, and then it was not until more recently that they were able to.

>> basically there is a ten day window and they came way after that. >> yes. >> commissioner akers. >> so this is a new owner, and who has had the bar for four months and inheriting numerous problems that it seems like the community has, it has been accruing and so the level of tolerance is probably fairly low. so, at the same time, i want to keep in mind that this is a new owner, and we want to give them like a fresh, and we have been talking about a fresh start. and you know, just let's give this person a chance to demonstrate and yet, should we be expecting that they do the same level of out reach and do diligence in the application process? and so what we are hearing is that that has not been done. and they are inheriting a bunch of problems?

and i agree, that the conditions outside of the bar, if the bar is open, it sounds like the security guards, they may be new, but they are not handling things. and what i mean by that is the bottles, the vomiting and the urination and it sounds like there is over serving which is illegal. and it appears from the picture that there was live entertainment occurring. >> that was a base for sure and a drum kit. >> and also, i should have mentioned this when the officer was up here but i am concerned about condition number one and i don't understand it and i can't understand what it is trying to say in terms of the restrictions? >> they are asking us to limit entertainment to those days of the week. >> yeah, i don't get it. >> just friday and saturday from 7:00 p.m. to ten p.m. and

that is it? >> yeah, that is it. >> that is what they are asking. >> and that is... >> yeah. >> i think that they would like to take a motion because i think that we can discuss kind of the conditions that we may like to apply to this. so, i know that it sounds like commissioner lee has a comment and then commissioner hyde. >> so i can move to approve. >> a motion to approve, with the conditions? >> yes, i am sorry, i have to make a much bigger motion. >> all right. let's come back to that if you want to think about it for a moment. >> commissioner lee and hyde. >> i am not quied comfortable granting the permit at this time until they have more conversations with the neighbors. i think in the long run, mitigates this problems and listen to the neighbors and see the conditions. see the good neighborhood policies now. and then, let them review

everything, the neighbors feel that, you know, give them an opportunity and possibly and a civil meeting now and not a lynch mob kind of thing but a really good kind of thing but he seems to be willing to learn the business and i think that the previous owner felt that he was entitled and i think that some more communication is warranted. and i think that right now, there is a lot of issues here that we are not comfortable with, and i think that my opinion, and i think that they need a little bit more out reach. and a little bit more conversations with the neighbors. >> okay. >> and so i want to amend my motion to i move to continue this permit. >> and can he with continue it how long can we continue it before it becomes a permit out right? >> answer that one? >> i believe that the statue is a 45-day, so the time clock on this. >> from the date that they apply, or from this today? >> from this hearing date.

>> commissioner hyde? ? you know that one of the things that i have been doing is going out and sitting with neighbors and the bar staff and have convening a conversation where everyone is in the room together, and so that everyone gets to have their conversation heard, and i am willing to do this with laoficina to sit down and i think that first of all what they need is someone to go over the rules and regulations in spanish, and so that they are understood really well and i would work with supervisor avalos' office to have someone go out there and do that, and do that first. >> and excuse me commissioner, i have a motion on the floor. >> okay. >> so before... >> could we let him finish the comment. >> before i second. okay. >> second. >> and the reason that i do not support it, is because i think that there are other ways to work on this. >> and i think that you know, what happens if we keep pushing it, and then it just is granted

any way by the state. correct? >> so then they get their license, and we don't have a lot of say, i think that if we can get in there and start working with them right away with the neighbors, and in the next couple of weeks and really get this going? >> i am confused. >> continue for two weeks and then set that up? >> i think so. >> yeah. >> so there is a motion, i don't know if there is a very clear second on that motion. >> i will second for two weeks. >> there is a motion for two weeks. >> sure. >> the motion is for two weeks. >> okay, there is a motion to continue this item for two weeks and we have another commission meeting in two weeks and in between that time there is an offer on the stable and so the motion is to continue this item for two weeks and there is a second >> clarification. >> and the next meeting will be february fourth? >> apologize. february fourth. >> and so to continue the item to the next meeting? ; is that correct?? >> is that a fair amendment to that. >> that is a fair amendment. >> and may i get the neighbors to shake their heads if they think in the next two weeks

they could make a meeting or not? and i... i don't know that we can have this dialogue right now and so let's, and so, there is a motion to extend this to the next meeting which i believe is then, three weeks? >> there is a second for that. and we technically do have up to 45 days and so we could extend that if that is an interest of the commission? >> so, is there any discussion on the motion? if not, we can take it to a vote? >> and you can vote it up or down? >> yes. >> and two weeks. >> yes. >> yes, the..., go ahead. >> the owner of la oficina has to understand that he cannot have any live entertainment while this is occurring. >> good point. >> until the permit is granted. he understands that, right?

>> okay. >> i would like to see it continued more than two weeks. >> more than two weeks? >> personally. >> but, i, do they have a juke box? >> could you guys come up and we have a couple more questions. and i will take in a second. >> so, the question is do you have a juke box? >> they do have a juke box. >> they do. >> commissioner akers? >> so the risk that we run is that if we do it longer than two weeks, once they hit 45 days, they get the permit no matter what. >> start pushing it out. then 30 days would be the max that we would... with the wiggle room on this. >> so it is better to grant the

permit with conditions that are strong and enforcable, than to continue continue continue it out. because they will get it without any conditions. at that point. >> so the two weeks, gives us some time to see what has happened. right? when they come in two weeks? >> right? >> in other words, so if we go too long. >> if it goes to 45 days they automatically get the permit and so it is up to the neighbors to really get it together and to meet with these people to really get this thing over with and we like to do it in two weeks, if you don't thifrpg that it could be done in two weeks, you know you are getting closer to that 45 days and so you know, we need to make a decision. >> if we don't do it in two weeks, we could continue in that meeting and it just means that time line and window closes, but i agree with the commissioner joseph i think that we commission the hell out of this so when the entertainment to the very restricted hours and times and

noise levels. so let's see what we can accomplish in that time if this motion passes. >> commissioner hyde do you have anything else to say? >> no. >> and so can we bring this to a vote? >> yes. >> okay on the motion to continue for two weeks which will be the next meeting on february fourth? >> that is the motion, commissioner akers? >> aye. >> hyde. >> aye. >> josephs? >> aye. >> lee. >> aye. >> campagnoli. >> aye. >> president tan. >> aye. >> so, to continue for two weeks to february 4th. >> so the motion is continued until february fourth, and thank you, commissioner hyde for offering up your negotiation and mitigation services immediatation. >> and so we are going to move on and i know that the next item needs to be moved to be continued originally it was agendaized and so do you have anything to say. >> i think that i wanted to

mention that ramsey hanna has been to the hearing on the 16th and he is waiting to find out what the determination will be because he has inherited a permit that has no entertainment and you guys do need to make a motion to continue it. >> okay. thank you. >> i move to continue that item. >> i will second. >> on the let's take this to a vote. >> all right, on the motion to continue, commissioner akers >> aye. >> hyde. >> aye. >> jaef. >> aye. >> lee. >> aye. >> campagnoli. >> aye. >> tan. >> aye. >> so moved. >> and all right that took

longer than i thought that it would, let's move on to item seven and so item seven is discussion and possible action on charter section 10 b of the san francisco administrative code around fees, for special events, and so we have had item and a presentation from the police department, and at our last meeting and i believe that we did not have a chance to sort of take any formal action, if we wanted to, and on it or a lengthy discussion, othis is just a opportunity for the commissioners to talk it out more and if there is a motion, please formulate that and present that, and if not, we will just entertain a couple of comments, and we will move on. >> this was to the commissioner to my right and so do you have anything to say commissioner

hyde? >> one of the reasons to have the conversation is that it came to the hearing and a lot of people showed up and they feel that they are constituents and they feel that they are coming to us i know that we don't have the ability to chance or regulate ten b but i think that the reason that i would like to have a discussion here, is to see if the commission can in some way help to find the help that they need by requesting that the board of supervisors as a neighborhood representative, there are hardly ever types when the representatives come here and they are having a problem and

it is a problem that for them to be able to have entertainment that is community building, and if we don't help on this basic level, i don't see how we can move on, and do it on with con stit ent on a level that are not getting community support and that is one of the reasons that i feel very passionate about this, and asking the supervisors for a report and maybe looking into ways to continuing to help heritage and events that create culture in our city to remain viable. >> commissioner joseph? >> i have a suggestion, i think that it would be more productive to ask the staff to contact the police commission have this item heard before the police commission as opposed to going, i think that it is like

putting the cart before the horse going to the supervisor and i don't think that it is going to kick it back to them any way. i think that we just go directly to the police commission and ask them to do something about it. before the sburps get involved and they could say no to us. and and it was on a different day than we are and i think that we could attend. and i mean that is just my idea and i think that they regulate the police department. more so, than like, the board of supervisors, who may or may not take this up, and it might feel like interference to them where the police commissioner that is actually i think it is their job to do this. and that is my suggestion.

>> in the program has been around for so long. in general it is necessary, we do need to ten b as a small business situation and a non-profit situation and it could be costly, and my thing is that if they could look into possibly you know, you know there is something, that i think in the legislation that says, that the max, and the two weeks that they allow the two weeks before the event to give them the final, how many ten b officers and in my opinion, i think that a little too short, if we could get a a little bit, like the extent and i have not done an event so long and i mean if it is even 60 days if there is a question and they have time for due process, to appeal it or ask why do they need so many ten bs and that is all that i am thinking and you know another thing is this, ten b is a voluntary situation and.

it was up for review for some changes. and it sounds like a logical first step and because there are issues and just clarification and just volunteering, and they are getting paid so they are volunteering and have the first right of refusal and so i am curious as to why the sheriff's department is not utilized more? and or, it sounds like what we heard from the community, was that there was some real arbitrary ten b mandates on, and i am thinking the players. >> united players group and some other people being told

three days, before their event that they had to have ten b. and so, and i heard the complaints from the people in local 16 about the ten b, program. and i think that it is something that is worth us bringing up. >> you know, and then in my opinion, i think that if they know that they only get two weeks before the date. and you know they will wait two weeks because they are busy. >> yeah. >> they are bus and they are busy, but if they know that they have to come up with a number, 90 days, or 60 days, i don't know what, you know what we can talk about. that. >> it sounds like though, they will have the leniency to say it three days before the event and even though that they said that you know there has to be some of the things that contradict it and it was more like well, this is kind of the general, and we have cart blanche as to whether it has to make the ten b officers or not

and whether it will be outside or not and whether they will serve alcohol or not. and whether there is going to be live music or not, and none of that, and it seemed a little arbitrary, and we need more clarification, i think that for the sake of time and everything, i think that i would suggest the commissioner hyde formulate a ask, should be put forth by staff to the police commissioner to see if they will take this up, and there is a lot of things that they can discuss the cost of ten b and the time of ten b and the admin fees and whatever, but you formulate that and you take it to the staff and you have them approach the police commission and see if they will do it or not. and then go from there. >> and that is really what i think is the only way to do it. >> barbara is the expert. >> i think that is a really good idea to take it before the

police commission and just a comment on the sheriff's, they don't do patrol in the san francisco, and they are in charge of the jails and transportation of prisoners and so, that is probably why they are not utilized for ten b. >> i wanted to be sure that is why the commission was not behind and that is why i wanted to have the public discussion. i think that there is a discussion on the table that let's direct them to approach the commission and i don't know that we need a motion for that. >> do we? >> do you know? >> i think that we do. we could and it could just be

on the record as that. any other last comments? if not, i will open it up to the public? any other comment on ten b, do you want to come up? >> good evening, commissioners and president tan. and feeling a lot better than the last time that i spoke here. and i just wanted to read into the record cmac's updated position on this issue, once again, we want to thank commissioner hide for bringing this up in the first place, and a year ago, steve asserted in the examine room that the sfpd was under going a staffing shortage and that the department is concerned about the reduction in officers.

and sense that statement, this has been repeated, by officers, in the officials at the community meetings throughout the city. and while we agree that the department assurance that the staffing deficit has not affected the public safety, cmac is concerned that the shortage may be effecting the ten b program itself. the potential drop off in the availability is coupled with the raising ten b costs born exclusively by the event producers. and the issue has contributed to the demise of more than a half a dozen annual music festivals in the last three years alone, costing the city, jobs and revenue and cultural institutions what can be done to help the sfpd, overcome the shortage and it is time for a public conversation about the ten b program and so that solutions can be discussed to help the sfb pd to help this challenge and they want to help and leave that with the heavy summer festival about to begin and the time is ripe for an

exchange of ideas and we ask that the entertainment commission, recommend that this issue be brought before the board of supervisors for a appropriate review. >> great. thank you. >> thank you. >> and okay. >> thank you. >> all right. we don't have to take a motion, but i am happy to entertain one. >> thank you. >> and i don't know that there is any more. >> and you could say pretty please? >> all right. so, the comments are on the record, and i think that we would like to see the police commission and if the staff could approach them to actually have a hearing about this, related to affordability, time, timing, and just how they administer their entire program. >> and i would like to add that if that does the happen, we could approach the board of supervisors who also might say no, but... >> all right. then, the people rally in the

streets. >> and okay. so, if there is no further comments, we will move on to item 8. and which is general commissioner comments and questions. >> so, anyone want to say anything out of the blue? >> welcome to the staff. we have missed having a person out there in the streets. so welcome. >> yeah, welcome. >> all right. any public comment. >> no. >> moving to nine. >> new business request. >> i have a request, not next meeting but possibly in two meetings i would like the agenda and us to agendaize late night transit. >> in the city. >> and to have the mta come? >> have the mta come.

and have a member supervisor's weiner's office come as well and since i think that they are going to try to carry the legislation or do something about it and i think that it is important for us as commissioners to do some homework on this with the pros and cons of late night transit with regard to the industry that we regulate. >> thank you. >> i am done. >> great, any other future agenda items? >> you know, ways thinking about the plastic water bottle and no more water bottles and i was just wondering if there was some way that we could get, an idea of how to be a more green industry. i just recently, you know, took an environmental geology course. it has me freaked out. you know, there is just so much plastic in the world and there

is so little water left for us to drink and if we could be a more responsible and we could help that i would appreciate that. >> so the big, some of the big festivals are working on that. and since, the plastic water bottle ban is probably not workable. >> for some of the really larger ones? and they are working on seeking combustible items like water bottle and so on and so forth and it is a work in progress. >> when they are finished, do you think that we could hear from them? >> it is going to be a month. >> great. >> absolutely. >> great. >> so, at some point, in time, we will bring that up. any other future agenda items? otherwise, i will open it up to public comment. and i don't see any, so we will move on to just adjourning this meeting. >> have a good night, everyone. thank you.