going on outside. thank you. >> thank you. >> point of information, over the last four months, have you seen an improvement since this gentleman has owned the bar? >> in the last, i am going to say my tenants say in the last two months, one thing that they observed and told me is the security guard outside and instead of making them go outside and the guy is joining in, that is what they are seeing out of their window. >> thank you. >> you are welcome. >> whoever is next, step forward and introduce yourself

>> my name is lora hee and... >> could you speak into the mic please? >> i live right next 25 feet from the bar. and i am trying to put these pictures in. and i am trying to operate this. >> and you are doing a good job, there you go. >> okay. these are from 2011 and 2012. and things that have happened in our immediate block. and the things that have not changed. as you will see in these next pictures. >> can you explain what we are looking at, i didn't quite catch it. >> i am sorry, i thought that you were on the committee the last time that we were here. >> just me. >> just you, i am sorry. >> and then some other... >> beer bottles coming out of

the bar, urination on the front of my building and throw up in the front of my building and the next pictures and that is from 2011, and 2012, these next pictures are pictures from 8-3-13 and october 11, 13. and i don't know if you can see this, but there is throw up being eaten by birds, the next day. and this is what the front of the establishment looks like the next day. and that container that you see there, that is where they put out their cigarettes. and then, this picture here on the right is actually a man urineating in a tree that is out in front of our house. and those are >> point of information was the bar opened when that was happening? >> yes. >> that was october 13th? >> that was october 11th.

>> and then, the bar has been doing entertainment as you can see in this picture here, this was on september 22nd, this is what they brought into the bar equipment wise. and then, they have had, they have had entertainment for the four months consistent. >> your time is up, ma'am. >> thank you. >> could i get the next speaker to step forward? >> okay. >> hi, my name is dan, heap and i live at 4228 mission, which is a door down from where they are. and apparently, we have had a lot of trouble with this bar, and i believe that the previous owner sold because they could

not comply with all of the regulations that everybody is trying to get them to comply with to at least be a good neighbor. i have nothing against a neighborhood bar and people going to meet and greet and be there. what i do have a problem with is it is trying to turn into a nightclub. and when they get the live music it is very loud inside and i got woken up at 1:30 in the morning which is too late to call to get the police to do anything about it. and what is happening is they loiter out in front of the house and sit in the cars and listen to the music and talk on the cell phones and nothing is being done by the loitering and so it is our quality of life and we are sitting in our living room trying to watch tv and their noise is over powering our just being able to watch tv. it is so loud in the bar that they come out of the bar, speaking just as loud. >> so, what i feel is the previous owner could not comply with any of these things and

just had total negligence toward any of our neighbors or any quality of life that we may want. and he is entitled to try to make a living which i totally agree with, but not to destroy our quality of life. and the thing is, that i believe that he sold it because he could not comply and unfortunately, the new owner thinks that he can comply, but he will be honest with you, that i don't think that he can, it is a very small building, with a very large, loud, noise, product and they always get way more people when it is, live entertainment. and it is way loud, and at 2:00 when all of these people are leaving, they are burning out, and they are making tons of noise, hooting and holering and so it is just terrible what i would like to see is not to give them the entertainment permit, unless they proved that they can do this stuff, don't give it to them and say that hopefully you can do it because it is not getting done.

>> your time is up. >> thank you. >> hello commissioners, i am president of the auto merchants and resident association and i sort of feel like we are putting the cart before the horse because we are here at this commission, hearing to give him a permit, and he is not done the work. and he has not met with community and i have called all of the neighborhood groups around there, and he has not bothered to call anybody, and he has not done any out reach and i am very concerned about the community liaison, and we have a number of mcds in the neighborhood but the one that i think that has always worked is the fact that we know who the community liaison is so that we can call the person and so to me, it is like you are rewarding him. and you are like, i don't have to do anything further and i agree with dan. and you know, we have been through this before, guys, why are we having to come to you and say, hey, we need help and we need help. because you guys are going to give him cart blanche and he

has been abusing the rules because he has had entertainment. what about the property owners, what about their rights i really urge you to seriously look at this situation. because, if it gets out of hand, then what? what is our recourse? yes, we can keep calling engle side and have calls for service out there, but then what? there are other issues that the police need to be taken care of in the district and tending to one bar is not part of it. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> and excuse me, i just, a point of information, i was just wondering, and could you tell me again, what neighborhood organization that you have represent? >> the outer mission merchant merchants and association, all the way from the city border to 280. >> he could also discuss or meet with the... >> okay, great. >> okay. >> any other public comment on this? thank you. >> good evening, my name is

julana huvaten and i own the 6 unit building on the corner and i did send some pictures to miss black stone and one of the pictures that you saw, earlier was from my building with the vomit. and i do not get the noise, because i am the third building from the bar. so, i think that the other two buildings butttres me but i do get the vomit and the urine and the bottles. okay? so i pass by the building once a week and i have to clean up. i don't expect my tenants to do that. but, i don't think that any of us would like to open our garage door and see vomit on the floor, okay? as the others have already said. we have gone through this before, we have been here before. and to allow this bar owner, to have a permit for live entertainment, i think is the wrong thing to do for our neighborhood. okay?

thank you. >> thank you. >> is there any other public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. and the matter is now with the commission. >> commissioners? >> i have a question. >> okay. >> the bottles, and i was not really clear on the pictures, are those just regular sized beer bottles? >> it totally looked like a 40 to me. >> yeah, because those would not be sold at the bar. correct? >> correct. >> was that it looked like a 40. >> it was a regular sized corona bottle that i saw. >> i have a feeling that you are also getting public comment from the audience which sin appropriate and so you are talking among yourselves. >> so the question at hand is do we believe from the pictures that we saw at public comment. >> who are you asking? >> the commissioners.

>> okay. do we believe that the pictures shown were the regular size td bottle? >> so, just working with the club malibu these complaints comes, and for the neighbors, call 311 immediately and they will come up and clean up your urine and vomit, and so call 311, the city does provide, ma'am, this is what i know happens before us. and so urine and vomit and bottles like it is very easy to blame them all on one place. i don't think that the boltses are generally sold someone that the bottles do not come out of a bar in general. they are from other places, they are drunken outside of

bars. and urine and vomit, you can't say definitely that all of the urine and vomit comes from laoficina. >> i am not saying that they don't do any of it but in other areas that we have worked in, it is like never just one place that is at fault, ever. you know? so, i just want to and i know that it is very, easy to say that it is this place, but, it really does happen on a more communal level. >> i just,... >> i just want to bring up a point. and i asked specifically if the urination was occurring on the tree in front of the building which i thought that i heard you say that the building was next door, was like happening while the bar was opened? if in fact it was happening while the bar was opened, during hours of entertainment and the security guard was present and a security guard

did not stop it that is a problem for me. >> correct. >> so, if in fact there are bottles on the street, in front of the bar, whether they come from the bar or not, the security guard, it is incumbent upon them to remove them, bottles are weapons. >> but they do not have the good neighbor policy at their disposal at this time. >> okay. let me finish. so then, he has been operating without a permit. >> correct. >> so, >> it is a temporary. >> does he have a temporary permit? >> he does not. >> so he is operating without a permit and in violation of our rules. and so, that is that. and having said that, thinking that the old permits transfer, and everything that we hear at this commission, my feeling is that if you are going to be a good business owner and you want to own a business, and

especially a new business, it is your job to research what you need to do to run that business. what permits you need. and you could not operate without a health permit. you can't have entertainment without an entertainment permit and so he is operating without a permit and so that to me is always a problem, so those are just my problems with it. i am not saying that we don't grant a permit. i am just saying that behavior is a problem to me. the security guard not, doing security. so, >> commissioner lee and then commissioner akers? >> and i have a clarification, then, so the build out that scott weiner did for updating the entertainment and so i thought that there was a transfer. >> yeah, there is an opportunity for a new owner to have a temporary permit, but they have to be in process within a window of time. >> right. >> i believe that it is ten days. they didn't come to us until after they had already done the transfer and gone to the abc and so, we began speaking with

them in september, i believe, and then it was not until more recently that they were able to. >> basically there is a ten day window and they came way after that. >> yes. >> commissioner akers. >> so this is a new owner, and who has had the bar for four months and inheriting numerous problems that it seems like the community has, it has been accruing and so the level of tolerance is probably fairly low. so, at the same time, i want to keep in mind that this is a new owner, and we want to give them like a fresh, and we have been talking about a fresh start. and you know, just let's give this person a chance to demonstrate and yet, should we be expecting that they do the same level of out reach and do diligence in the application process? and so what we are hearing is

that that has not been done. and they are inheriting a bunch of problems? and i agree, that the conditions outside of the bar, if the bar is open, it sounds like the security guards, they may be new, but they are not handling things. and what i mean by that is the bottles, the vomiting and the urination and it sounds like there is over serving which is illegal. and it appears from the picture that there was live entertainment occurring. >> that was a base for sure and a drum kit. >> and also, i should have mentioned this when the officer was up here but i am concerned about condition number one and i don't understand it and i can't understand what it is trying to say in terms of the restrictions? >> they are asking us to limit entertainment to those days of

the week. >> yeah, i don't get it. >> just friday and saturday from 7:00 p.m. to ten p.m. and that is it? >> yeah, that is it. >> that is what they are asking. >> and that is... >> yeah. >> i think that they would like to take a motion because i think that we can discuss kind of the conditions that we may like to apply to this. so, i know that it sounds like commissioner lee has a comment and then commissioner hyde. >> so i can move to approve. >> a motion to approve, with the conditions? >> yes, i am sorry, i have to make a much bigger motion. >> all right. let's come back to that if you want to think about it for a moment. >> commissioner lee and hyde. >> i am not quied comfortable granting the permit at this time until they have more conversations with the neighbors. i think in the long run, mitigates this problems and

listen to the neighbors and see the conditions. see the good neighborhood policies now. and then, let them review everything, the neighbors feel that, you know, give them an opportunity and possibly and a civil meeting now and not a lynch mob kind of thing but a really good kind of thing but he seems to be willing to learn the business and i think that the previous owner felt that he was entitled and i think that some more communication is warranted. and i think that right now, there is a lot of issues here that we are not comfortable with, and i think that my opinion, and i think that they need a little bit more out reach. and a little bit more conversations with the neighbors. >> okay. >> and so i want to amend my motion to i move to continue this permit. >> and can he with continue it how long can we continue it before it becomes a permit out right? >> answer that one? >> i believe that the statue is a 45-day, so the time clock on this. >> from the date that they

apply, or from this today? >> from this hearing date. >> commissioner hyde? ? you know that one of the things that i have been doing is going out and sitting with neighbors and the bar staff and have convening a conversation where everyone is in the room together, and so that everyone gets to have their conversation heard, and i am willing to do this with laoficina to sit down and i think that first of all what they need is someone to go over the rules and regulations in spanish, and so that they are understood really well and i would work with supervisor avalos' office to have someone go out there and do that, and do that first. >> and excuse me commissioner, i have a motion on the floor. >> okay. >> so before... >> could we let him finish the comment. >> before i second. okay. >> second. >> and the reason that i do not support it, is because i think that there are other ways to work on this.

>> and i think that you know, what happens if we keep pushing it, and then it just is granted any way by the state. correct? >> so then they get their license, and we don't have a lot of say, i think that if we can get in there and start working with them right away with the neighbors, and in the next couple of weeks and really get this going? >> i am confused. >> continue for two weeks and then set that up? >> i think so. >> yeah. >> so there is a motion, i don't know if there is a very clear second on that motion. >> i will second for two weeks. >> there is a motion for two weeks. >> sure. >> the motion is for two weeks. >> okay, there is a motion to continue this item for two weeks and we have another commission meeting in two weeks and in between that time there is an offer on the stable and so the motion is to continue this item for two weeks and there is a second >> clarification. >> and the next meeting will be february fourth? >> apologize. february fourth. >> and so to continue the item to the next meeting? ; is that correct?? >> is that a fair amendment to

that. >> that is a fair amendment. >> and may i get the neighbors to shake their heads if they think in the next two weeks they could make a meeting or not? and i... i don't know that we can have this dialogue right now and so let's, and so, there is a motion to extend this to the next meeting which i believe is then, three weeks? >> there is a second for that. and we technically do have up to 45 days and so we could extend that if that is an interest of the commission? >> so, is there any discussion on the motion? if not, we can take it to a vote? >> and you can vote it up or down? >> yes. >> and two weeks. >> yes. >> yes, the..., go ahead. >> the owner of la oficina has to understand that he cannot have any live entertainment while this is occurring. >> good point.

>> until the permit is granted. he understands that, right? >> okay. >> i would like to see it continued more than two weeks. >> more than two weeks? >> personally. >> but, i, do they have a juke box? >> could you guys come up and we have a couple more questions. and i will take in a second. >> so, the question is do you have a juke box? >> they do have a juke box. >> they do. >> commissioner akers? >> so the risk that we run is that if we do it longer than two weeks, once they hit 45 days, they get the permit no matter what. >> start pushing it out.

then 30 days would be the max that we would... with the wiggle room on this. >> so it is better to grant the permit with conditions that are strong and enforcable, than to continue continue continue it out. because they will get it without any conditions. at that point. >> so the two weeks, gives us some time to see what has happened. right? when they come in two weeks? >> right? >> in other words, so if we go too long. >> if it goes to 45 days they automatically get the permit and so it is up to the neighbors to really get it together and to meet with these people to really get this thing over with and we like to do it in two weeks, if you don't thifrpg that it could be done in two weeks, you know you are getting closer to that 45 days and so you know, we need to make a decision. >> if we don't do it in two weeks, we could continue in that meeting and it just means that time line and window closes, but i agree with the commissioner joseph i think that we commission the hell out

of this so when the entertainment to the very restricted hours and times and noise levels. so let's see what we can accomplish in that time if this motion passes. >> commissioner hyde do you have anything else to say? >> no. >> and so can we bring this to a vote? >> yes. >> okay on the motion to continue for two weeks which will be the next meeting on february fourth? >> that is the motion, commissioner akers? >> aye. >> hyde. >> aye. >> josephs? >> aye. >> lee. >> aye. >> campagnoli. >> aye. >> president tan. >> aye. >> so, to continue for two weeks to february 4th. >> so the motion is continued until february fourth, and thank you, commissioner hyde for offering up your negotiation and mitigation services immediatation. >> and so we are going to move on and i know that the next item needs to be moved to be continued originally it was agendaized and so do you have anything to say. >> i think that i wanted to

mention that ramsey hanna has been to the hearing on the 16th and he is waiting to find out what the determination will be because he has inherited a permit that has no entertainment and you guys do need to make a motion to continue it. >> okay. thank you. >> i move to continue that item. >> i will second. >> on the let's take this to a vote. >> all right, on the motion to continue, commissioner akers >> aye. >> hyde. >> aye. >> jaef. >> aye. >> lee.

>> aye. >> campagnoli. >> aye. >> tan. >> aye. >> so moved. >> and all right that took longer than i thought that it would, let's move on to item seven and so item seven is discussion and possible action on charter section 10 b of the san francisco administrative code around fees, for special events, and so we have had item and a presentation from the police department, and at our last meeting and i believe that we did not have a chance to sort of take any formal action, if we wanted to, and on it or a lengthy discussion, othis is just a opportunity for the commissioners to talk it out more and if there is a motion, please formulate that and present that, and if not, we will just entertain a couple of comments, and we will move on. >> this was to the commissioner to my right and so do you have anything to say commissioner

hyde? >> one of the reasons to have the conversation is that it came to the hearing and a lot of people showed up and they feel that they are constituents and they feel that they are coming to us i know that we don't have the ability to chance or regulate ten b but i think that the reason that i would like to have a discussion here, is to see if the commission can in some way help to find the help that they need by requesting that the board of supervisors as a neighborhood

representative, there are hardly ever types when the representatives come here and they are having a problem and it is a problem that for them to be able to have entertainment that is community building, and if we don't help on this basic level, i don't see how we can move on, and do it on with con stit ent on a level that are not getting community support and that is one of the reasons that i feel very passionate about this, and asking the supervisors for a report and maybe looking into ways to continuing to help heritage and events that create culture in our city to remain viable. >> commissioner joseph? >> i have a suggestion, i think that it would be more

productive to ask the staff to contact the police commission have this item heard before the police commission as opposed to going, i think that it is like putting the cart before the horse going to the supervisor and i don't think that it is going to kick it back to them any way. i think that we just go directly to the police commission and ask them to do something about it. before the sburps get involved and they could say no to us. and and it was on a different day than we are and i think that we could attend. and i mean that is just my idea and i think that they regulate the police department. more so, than like, the board of supervisors, who may or may not take this up, and it might feel like interference to them where the police commissioner that is actually i think it is their job to do this.

and that is my suggestion. >> in the program has been around for so long. in general it is necessary, we do need to ten b as a small business situation and a non-profit situation and it could be costly, and my thing is that if they could look into possibly you know, you know there is something, that i think in the legislation that says, that the max, and the two weeks that they allow the two weeks before the event to give them the final, how many ten b officers and in my opinion, i think that a little too short, if we could get a a little bit, like the extent and i have not done an event so long and i mean if it is even 60 days if there is a question and they have time for due process, to appeal it or ask why do they need so many ten bs and that is all that i am thinking and you know another thing is this, ten

b is a voluntary situation and. it was up for review for some changes. and it sounds like a logical first step and because there are issues and just clarification and just volunteering, and they are getting paid so they are volunteering and have the first right of refusal and so i am curious as to why the sheriff's department is not utilized more? and or, it sounds like what we heard from the community, was that there was some real arbitrary ten b mandates