the mobile food trucks they pull up during prime times and skim the profits and skim the customers and they are not paying taxes and not paying for anything. i would argue that any permit there should be denied and if it's just the letter of the law to do this, i think we need to protect businesses. >> have you filed objections with regard to this particular site? >> this particular site i wasn't aware of until the last meeting. my partners and i have been in action to discuss what these are as far as the plan of where they can be in front of light businesses and the permitting process. we have been working with the ggra and trying to find what

works and for those that want to do the mobile food trucks. that's fine buchlt -- but also a plan that allows someone to set up a brick and mortar restaurant to survive. >> you understand this is not whether this permit is here, but whether this gentleman is allowed the conditional. there is a time to appeal. >> i understand. it shouldn't be authorized under any. it didn't follow the rules the first time then let's make the bar high. >> perhaps we need to clarify that this is an appeal of the disapproval. if it's granted, it is approval. is that not correct? >> this is an unusual situation. a complete permit of application as i

understand it, complete permit application was not accepted because the information was untimely submitted. do you have a complete permit application at this point? >> no, we do not have a fully completed application because the applicant stated previously he did not have the resources to take the very next step which is the public notification process. >> so at this point there isn't a permit to actually grant because there isn't a complete permit application. so we don't know what the permit really is or will he comply with all the permit requirements if you were to submit a completed application. >> that would be correct. there was no process to submit a permit. >> this is the same with

at&t? >> this was similar but different. that was a notification that could result in a permit application. this is a permit application that is incomplete and in essence to be abandoned. and there is nothing in the code that allows it. >> even which there is someone at the cue and there is a process and appealable point where public notification is given whether it's this applicant or another applicant in cue? >> that's correct. the challenge we face in this case is that it doesn't let us to close the permit. >> i think that's one way to go if the board were to decide that the permitee should be allowed to complete an application then complete the application and the

permitting process starts for the applicant. the other approach which i think is a bit trickier is that the board, that the permitee submit the application to the board and the board would determine whether it's adequately permitted and issued. the first approach is i think would be more consistent with what the city would do. >> okay, maybe my logic is a little bit simplistic. but there is a permit application. that permit application was disapproved. >> it was never actually submitted. they didn't allow him to complete it. it was partially submitted but not approved. they didn't review the mobile facility permit. >> the application was

submitted. but additional information was required. however there is an application in. that application has been disapproved. >> that's the same as disapproving a permit. >> it's a permit application that's disapproved. >> the question is how if you were to grant that permit, do you have before you the information necessary to support the elements of granding the permit, if you don't and you still want to grant the permit, how do we get you to that place? >> i'm not going that far yet. i'm trying to figure out if the permit application was accepted by the department and was not completed because of lack of information, but that application was disapproved. if we acted upon hypothetically, if we acted

upon reversing that disapproval, then in essence that's an approval of that permit. >> correct. >> he would still have to complete the final. >> not necessarily. this is what i'm saying. >> i think the challenge that the board doesn't have before it in the record, the information required of a complete permit application for a mobile food facility. >> you would have the permitee submit that information to you and you would receive it >> i understand that, counselor, but let me go to another instance then. there have been a number of cases in this board where an applicant submitted for a permit, they were not going to approve it because of lack of something and usually it's a lack of a change whether it's by

planning for that permit. that permit applicant can then request the department to disapprove it so theca appeal it here. what's the difference? >> i think the challenge of evaluating whether the permit is co-compliant. in the building context you would be able to do that maybe mow readily when in this context the permit application is not full enough with information to determine if it's compliant if all the information on the permit has satisfied >> if i can take another task with this, commissioners, because the permit was not submitted to dpw is asking you by telling the applicant theca appeal to you in 15 days then it's asking to take this

option and consider whether or not the permit applicant timely submitted his application. it's almost like a consent situation because it's not truly a permit that was submitted. >> it feels like a jurisdictional issue to me. >> should we proceed with the rest of the hearing? first of all i want to ask mr. pacheco if we can get the closed captioning on in the room. i see that it's not. is there any other comment on this item? >> seeing none, mr. castillo, you have 3 minutes for rebuttal. this is your opportunity to address the body. >> the only thing i need to ask is if you can give me a chance to continue the application i can do it

again, all the paperwork because what happened before they don't have the money for all the paperwork at the same time because it's a lot of money to pay on my permit, it's almost $5,000. it's my first time to get a permit in 2012. we get a lot of papers and paid for it and i paid for my trailer which is $20,000 and i used all my money to pay for the trailer. this is why right now, if there is one that is possible to continue to the paperwork. >> do you now have all the resources you need to complete the application? >> yes. i can start to do all the paperwork, i can pay all the bills now as when i started the first time. >> i have another question, it's your statement that you submitted to us that says that you went in on october 4th.

>> i don't remember. >> did you go in personal ly? >> i went and talked to ms. stacy lee because they canceled the application denying because you didn't continue the paperwork. if you want to continue, you need to appear. i need to apply for the appear that's why she gave me the address and that's why i seen mr. pacheco and i talked to him and he gave me all the paperwork we need to appear. >> excuse me, madam president, your statement submitted to our board, who helped you with your statement? did you complete this statement that was submitted to us yourself or did somebody help you? >> somebody helped me. there is like a community service. >> so the concern mr.

castillo is that some of the information that you are giving us is a little different than what we have received in our briefs. so we are trying to figure it out. you said you needed more time and you can complete the paperwork. but i think specifically do you have the money to make all the payments the go forward? >> yes. >> okay, thank you very much. >> anything else you would like to add? >> no. that's it. >> okay. thank you. mr. kwaung? >> commissioners, john kwaung from dposhgsepartment of public works. this was triggered because someone has applied for this location. mr. castillo has been given a year 1/2 to apply for this location and we should move forward to

let someone have that opportunity. >> there is no permit yet? >> there is no permit yet going forward. >> how would you have in the record that you would allude to having that conversation? >> since we moved to our new office we have a computer electronic sign in list so when people come in they sign in electronically and we verify that data and right now i don't have any information to support that mr. castillo was in our office. >> thank you. >> commissioners, the matter is yours. >> okay. well, there is no permit here. i don't think we have jurisdiction of this. it's a permit application in process. so my vote would be

that we don't have jurisdiction to do anything at this point. it's an administrative, the dpw has administrative discretion to deem it abandoned. that's my position on it. >> what you are saying is we shouldn't have accepted this appeal? >> right. >> i understand that point. i think it was confusing in trying to figure this out and i'm sure it was confusing for the legal side to look at this. but i would probably approach this slightly different in saying how can we allow some level of closure. i would probably allow him to complete his application because i think there is

going to be appeals that the directors hearing and let them go through their process to determine whether it's an appropriate location and then we'll see whatever comes back to us. >> right, but what authority do we have to do that to do anything? >> i thought we had two options, one was to allow him to complete the application by granting the appeal. >> in essence by doing that you are consenting to the issue before you. i think you have that option if you want to proceed that way. >> i tend to agree with commissioner hurtado, the action taken would be tolling the time at the department. i don't think that's really within our purview. >> the question is do we have jurisdiction. i guess there is two ways of looking at it. it is involving a permit although not fully completed but

evidently it's strong enough where they can release this one until someone makes a decision and that's why they are here today, right? but i agree with commissioner hurtado as well that maybe we are not the body that should hear that? >> yeah, i mean, i think march 2012 was the initial application. that's almost 2 years. i think that the department has been reasonable in their actions and has sent two certified mail notices one of which i think was received, one was returned and the other one was received and also an -- e-mail and mr. castillo but for lack of resources he knew he had to pay the money. i don't think the department's actions were unreasonable. i would defer to their administrative discretion on this one.

>> is there a motion? >> a motion to deny the appeal. >> you can deny it on the lack of subject matter to jurisdiction. >> that would be my motion, yes. >> you wish to make that? >> yes. >> mr. pacheco? >> are you voting on this appeal or dismissing this appeal? >> we are dismissing this appeal? that's my motion. >> the denial would be you are accepting jurisdiction. >> my motion is to reject the appeal for lack of jurisdiction. >> and there would be a refund. >> right. >> thank you for the

clarification. >> we have a motion then from commissioner hurtado to reject this appeal for lack of subject matter jurisdiction and a refunded fee to be afforded to the appellant. on that motion to reject, commissioner fung? aye. president is absent. vice-president lazarus? aye. commissioner honda? >> aye. >> the vote is 4-0. this is rejected. >> you can contact the office and we can help you with a refund. contact mr. pacheco tomorrow if you would like. thank you. we can move on to

the next item 8.88 appeal no. 13-159 ysabel navarro, appellanttss vs. dept. of building inspection, respondent 480 amherst street. appealing the issuance on november 05, 2013, of penalty imposition of penalty for construction work done without a permitt. application no. 2013/11/05/1183 for hearing today.1234 this is on for a hearing. navarro, please step forward. you have 7 minutes to present your case. >> hello, my name is isabelle navarro. and i went to the department of building inspection. i built a deck on the back of the house. but i fixed everything is back by november for my first time and i didn't know i had to ask for permission to build a deck. that's why i'm here to get

back some money. it's too expensive to build a deck and then put back everything. so, thank you. >> ms. navarro, you have already removed the deck? >> yeah. i have here. november 5th, everything is fixed. i have this paper, the inspector come to my house and signed the paper. >> okay. thank you. >> i have a question, you own other property in san francisco? >> yeah. >> i have only one property. >> okay. i guess this is wrong then. okay. thank you. >> mr. duffy? >> good evening,

commissioners. the department received complaints on january 2013 that there was a deck and windows being built. our building inspector went to the property on the 25th of june and issued a notice of violation. inspector barrios. that an addition was observed approximately 25 feet by 15 feet protruding in the rear yard without a permit. he gave a stop work order and a penalty on the value of work performed for $10,000. subsequently the property owner came down to the department and filed for the

building permit. >> mr. duffy, are we talking about the same case? $10,000. it doesn't show up anywhere here? >> that's what the building inspector said as to the value of the work. they came into the department on november 5th and applied for a building permit to beat the notice of violation from approximately 129 square feet and remove the installing door and reverse to initial condition. so obviously there is a discrepancy on the size of the notice. however we did a $10,000. i don't think they

spoke to the member of the chief of building inspector. this could have been lowered. they are reverting it back to the original condition. we would probably have reviewed that penalty at the time of issuance. i think what's happened was they spoke to the inspector and they are here appealing the penalty. yes they worked on it without a permit and there should be a penalty but not as much. if you feel you want to lower it, that would not be against my thinking. i'm sure the department would go with that as well. >> i guess it was not just the $10,000 that i didn't see any mention. the notice of violation which we don't have a copy of it. you said it was

an addition going back? >> when our building inspectors write-up decks, the deck is treated as an addition. sometimes they write addition instead of deck. in this case the inspector did write horizontal vertical addition. sometimes the deck is treated the same as an addition to the building. sometimes we call it a horizontal and vertical addition. >> the size is different? >> we are going to inspect it to make sure it's back to where it was. it's really unfortunate. i don't know why they chose to remove it. they could have gone through the process of permitting it. maybe they want to restart and r e do this. >> it's already gone.

>> it's already gone. it's not signed off. we need to do a final inspection of that. they are putting it back to where it was and they have the cost of bg of -- building it and taking it away. i would say less of a penalty would be okay. >> what do you think the estimated cost of putting it up and taking it down? >> well they have $5,000 on their permit application. that's fair. >> to put it up? >> yeah. >> what about to take it down? >> the $5,000 would probable include that. taking the job down is not that much of a job. what do they do with the material? they can come in and apply for a permit and

rebuild it again. there should be some penalty on it. nine times out of 10 there should be a penalty of $1373 that the dbi impose d on the $10,000. the total permit fee was $1810 with a penalty being $1372. >> isn't there a threshold below which we could not go with? >> they have the option. which is 1810?

>> no. $260. >> on the contrary, we believe the department, before they pay for the permit, if they speak to some of the staff where pay for the permit, sometimes the staff will bring them back to the chief building inspectors and we have a conversation. instead of going nine times on the $10,000. sometimes we go 9 times on 5 or $3,000. we would take into account that they are not keeping this structure. that maybe some guidance for you. >> is there any additional public comment? seeing none, public comment is closed. ms. navarro, do you have anything further to sachlt -- say.

you have 3 minutes. >> were there any other permits on this property? >> there was one in 2003 and that was complete and since then there have been none. >> how long has this ownership? >> that's a good question. i didn't check that. >> thank you, mr. duffy. >> it says on the penalty questionnaire of 2006. >> they purchased it. >> ms. navarro? >> yes, when i received the first letter, they said it was 2 stories. no inspector came to see this was a deck. i

just tried to put plastic wall to cover the window. that's it. i fixed everything. it's too expensive to fix. it was my first time. i didn't know i needed permission. i fixed everything. that's why i think i can get some money back from the building inspection. >> ms. navarro, when did you purchase your property? >> 2006. >> and you never had to get a permit? >> no. never. >> okay. thank you. mr. duffy, anything further? >> i just want to add that even if they reduce the penalty and that's fine, i always like to tell people

you have to get your permits. we have complaints everyday. building a deck without a permit is going to cause problems. this lady is here for that. maybe next time she'll come get some plans done and come down like everyone else does. >> i'm sure that will happen next time. >> thank you. commissioners, the matter is yours. >> i would be comfortable reducing it to the minimum that the board -- >> $520? >> 2 two times. >> yeah, i would support that. i would also make it very clear if we are to vote on that motion that you have to get permits anytime you do

building in the city of san francisco and hopefully this is a painful lesson of doing that in the future. we do see some mitigating circumstances. i think we are leaning towards reducing the penalty but we hope that you will take that into consideration next time you do any building on your property. >> i will move to grant the appeal and reduce the penalty to two times based on the mitigating circumstances that the homeowner has never applied for prior permits and this is her first time and it was an honest mistake. >> on that motion from commissioner hurtado to reduce the penalty two times the regular fee.