here that currently requires landlords to list their real property and audible and art and furnitures which of those will be on little new application especially for this micro mom and pop you know the retired person that maybe live in one building and rents out the other unit would the rent board expect them to sell assets. >> nobody is expected to sell one building. >> if they have 7. >> if people have expenses that look moderate but remember the deferral is not going to make this go away.

with your to have tenant for relocation expenses to remain in san francisco it's against balancing the act >> absolutely. i agree with that so will the new application not contain those. >> certainly we'll take combines from the board but we've used this nonetheless there's tremendous assets we came up with their liberates and assets. >> but the applications does have those indications it could leave someone with the impression they're to have to be expected if their assets are the 40 wyoming eon k or their

jewelry or the the act it's acting to be listed it's relevant. >> i think we should change it to other liquid assets. there's a difference you've corrective stated like our income going to housing but i think in terms of what assets are listed it should be the same for both. and - >> except that our board has not currently changed the rest of our hardship provisions to conform to the capital hardship provisions because no one knows how that is going to work it's extremely limited you wouldn't be able to find out about the other landlords buildings. the b m r unit cap it's $60,000

if they have more than that they are precluded >> i'm not saying it's identical but would a landlord be expected to put a mortgage on their property to afford this this is not about the larger buildings but the folks who own one small building. >> i can't imagine that would happen but i see extreme six. the lard the smaup small landlord is going to have to pay half of his relocation amount and if the landlord is going to claim hardship we'll looking at that but they'll have to come up with a sum.

the amount of time that the tenant rent differential it over a it year period so it doesn't make sense to a spread it out longer than but not to deprive the landlord facing them to take out a new mortgage on the property. several we'll be looking to you for guidance >> and this is i'll recognize supervisor campos to respond but this question is to the calculation for mr. egon as well as the hard of hearing by the rent board this legislation defers quite a bit of flexibility to agencies i'm not suggesting we should be micro managing that they should have

neglected to administer those but those are policy questions that's why i suggested the policy should be more detailed in terms of the hardship and determination and in terms of the calculations otherwise i have respect for the agencies but could implement the law in a way that may or may not be consistent with the intent sorry supervisor campos. >> thank you, madam chair. you have to be careful how you strike it balance. i don't think that anyone can sit up here and say that under us a specific scenario would be clued. you want to give enough

direction but provide flexibility. i trust that the rent board will go back and look at the form and figure out what's reasonable and to the extent p there are people who have suggestions i hope they're open to that so the department association and altercating others have ideas we know should be on the form. i'm sure there's an openness on the tenant side i think the idea is to come up with something fair that didn't hide the ball but gives certainty and ultimately provides the opportunity for the mom and pop landlord that you wish referencing to really provide all relevant information. i want to be careful not to say certainly types of information

is not admissible because that could be helpful to a mom and pop or tenant. we need to find the right balance and we're trying to follow the gowns of the city attorney to the level to have guidance but at the same time, you know, letting. adjudicate certainly cases. if there's a specific suggestions i'm open to them. >> supervisor campos i appreciate it i agree it's a balance. it sounds like this process is not going to require the small mom and pop landlords to start liquidating 40 one k or selling jewelry or furnitures to pay for

this. again one could look at this application that lists the items and says why is that there if you're not take into account >> those things are there to get a full picture of the persons situation that's not how we've applied it in the past that's not the goal of this sponsor but we have to make sure that the tenants receive enough the relocation compensation to remain in the city. >> one of the cases involved a landlord that had a seat in excess of $500,000 including property and in this case there was still a finding of hardship

that shows the reasonableness of how the rent board approaches those issues. to my knowledge there hasn't been a successful legal challenge how to adjudicated landlords in the past. that's because of the balanced way it's been approached and so to supervisor campos since ms. woods has indicated she's deferred to you as the author would it be your intent like aublts and furnitures and jewelry would not be part of the determination >> it's might intent for the rent board to follow up on what they've done before. >> i personally find that to be

odd what's the value of your clothing and the car you drive and the furnitures in your home. >> what if someone was an art collector. >> i didn't include art if someone is fabulously wealthy by in terms of the furnitures. >> i think we can take a look at this but a 40 one k you can't get in bankruptcy or have a tax loin against it. i appreciate if you take into account that apparently, the author is to the discretion of the rent board so someone who's supportive of the ellis act the relocation i would request that

you not include those things >> i want to provide context there's clearly there are some issues where you have some of the mom and pop landlords that will be impacted that's why it's appropriate but i also think we are losing sight of what's happening out there. the reason why this legislation is important is because you have so many people displaced out of san francisco and the existing relocation costs is inadequate. how we talk about those issues is important you can spend so much time on the preefrty some of the locations but you lose sight of the big picture. there's hardship but the hardship is not just focused on

one individual landlord that has a specific set of characteristics. the issue is what's happening to the tenant that are being displaced and where's the emphasis on that >> i agree we have to keep our eye on the picture i support the ellis act relocation but this is an important legislation i think it's appropriate to make sure we're getting the details right in terms of how it's going to be administered. i think it's important to focus on the details as smaen we focus on the ellis act happening in the city >> i want to assure the

committee we can balance the acts theoretical that's within the fairness and balance we strive for my supervisor campos i want the level of attention to be reflective of the reality and the disapportionment maturely the time focusing on the small cases doesn't do justice of the reality that is unhappy out there i want the record to reflect that. >> thank you. ms. wolf >> i do have some public comment cards. supervisor campos any additional amendments >> no, i want to make sure i give mr. egging gone. >> i'm sorry mr. egon i didn't see i arrive and i'm ted from the controller's office.

last week, i testified will the method doing that did controller's office that calculate this and i prepared a memo that lays out and i how much of hope certify detail that goes into the calculation and i hope it what's-her-name our questions. just to reiterate the basic idea of the index that we will provide to the rent board it something that takes the current rent and deinflates it down to the base rent to the oriental payment or the original rent when the unit was vacant and recalculates based on the average increase the market rates vacant. we're constructing an index that is simple a single number that

is multiplied by the current rent and multiplied by 24 to arrive at the total relocation payment. we think this approach is administratively good and reflects the uniqueness of the particular unit. i'm happy to take any specific questions you have >> thank you. i appreciate you putting this together i've not had a chance to review it. can you provide an example of an exercise particular situation how the process works so if you're just estimating what the deinflation would be so how the process works >> sure i could probably do it

with what's in front of you the rental index. it's essentially, what we provide to the rent board and the way it would be used to say for example, if the unit was currently renting for one thousand dollars and it was last vacant in 1997 you look for the index coordinating to 19 nine hundred 97 and multiple if number by one thousand to get $2,055 and that's the difference or estimated difference between the market rate payment and that number gets multiplied by 24 to arrive they location. this index is actually incorporating the differential calculation that calculates the

market rate and calculates the current value of the rent >> if the person is paying one thousand dollars today i'll simply take when it was last vacant in 18997 multiple the one thousand dollars by 2.055 to come to approximately $2,000 two thousand minus. >> no. you don't have to minus it is the current rate times this index the index is doing it's estimating the market rate to be 2 thousands. >> how said the deflatter. >> the deflatter is a component of this index. essentially this index is the deflatter divided by the market

rate inflationary so it's a product of those two things. it's a product of what is our base rent which is how long have you lived in the rent control unit vs. the market rate >> i'm able to profess math was never my i'm not an academic superstar i'm having trouble with what you explained why do we have a deflatter and inflationary separately. >> i'm you using the information that we provide to the rent board we provide the simple index to the landlord and tenants don't have to go through

the backyard data so table one uses the allowable increases back to 18979 to calculate the deflatter it allows you to assuming allowable rent increases have been employed once you know what the base of our rent the issue is applying the growth in market rent and that is what table two does the market rate inflationary if the 0 market is divided you'll get the estimated of the market rent for that unit. we use the information on vacant units to reflect what the market

was doing during the time it was rent controlled. those two things together provides the market rate and you subtract is the current market rate >> the calculation assumes that the landlord is racing the rent every year. >> we did look at how sensitive the relocation was to a situation which the landlord would not or had not done that. if the landlord had not done that the current rent at the time of eviction would be lower than the time of the eviction so since the relocation payment is vunt to that then the payment to the tenant is less >> i appreciate that since its

a long-term leases would be challenging. >> thank you, madam chair thank you, mr. egging on i would say i want to make sure there's such transparency and we're doing health insurance this as inadequately as we can. we met with the department association but they've not seen this, in fact, we've only gotten this now. if there are specific concerns about this that i let us know because i want to make sure we're as fast as possible so if there are different issues with the methodology i certainly want to know and i'm hoping to do it any other way that's appropriate. i want to put that out there. one of the reasons we want to

make sure there's flexibility and at the same time gowns we know that information can change and what will be available in 5 or 10 years is different than today. i want to put that out there if this year's any suggestions or comments or concerns we want to hear >> thank you and it might be helpful over the next week or perhaps this week to put out a sheet of examples a variety of different types of situation to people can actually look at would could be the real examples as opposed to the sheet it's helpful but i think it would be great. >> i'd be happy to do another version of the memos. >> and submit that to the stakeholders and the full board

thank you very much. okay. now supervisor campos there are no further amendments. at this point we'll open this up for public comment. public comment will be two minutes. i will call the yellow cards that we have (calling names) and you don't have to speak in the order that was called. come on up >> good evening even though it started out as afternoon i think it's appreciated supervisors when i see the duty that demand of you fabulous. i'm roy.

i've been a resident of san francisco sin1950 and began as young engineer in air conditioning. that was a mistake only because marrying a young girl from san francisco. we've worked through it and i happen to be in a mom and pop type of landlord with all respect to them as if we were a member of the family only to have it turns out that can bite you in the butte. i feel that as an owner of property that the rent this that

is paid is not profit. it's the start of what you are going to use to pay off everything as costs. therefore i feel that this approach that is talked about of relocation is far beyond what any renter would ever have imaged at the start of this termination time and now to have it as a landlord throne in my face as such a way it would say it's enforceable for me to consider renting a building without knowing in evaporates there was a relocation fee involved >> okay. thank you. >> i'm sorry. >> thank you very much. next speaker >> good afternoon. i'm a small

property owner in district 10. i'm marlene tran before my retirement in teaching speaking a second language to students i encouraged my students to study hard and save money to guy a home. through years of savings some bought a home but to help with expenses when we they rent out their homes the san franciscans make it hard to stay in the rent market. the supervisor campos rent relocation fee is such an unbalanced elective that is unfair to tenants and landlords. if small property owners can't

make the ends meet where will go tenants find rentals. our goal is to oppose this ordinance but not only will it hurt small property owners but tenants. my question is then how will san francisco help tenants remain in san francisco. city of san francisco already allocates one hundred and 65 million to homeless programs most to first time homes so why da can't the board of supervisors help to build for affordable housing so it will reduce speculation and reduce the infliction between property owners and tenants and, of course, less psychiatries on properties as a whole.

i hope the board of supervisors will help tenants and san franciscans as well >> thank you. next speaker. >> i'm andrew long i'm a landlord i guess you call me a mom and pop landlord. i would like to make one suggestion i mailed to supervisor wiener if you want the burdening of this to be less burden on the long term owners shouldn't have to pay their tenants. i'm very interested in this index of relocation fees because if someone wants to sue you for damages you have given them a index to show how much the

subsidy the landlords is giving to tenants. this legislation we'll ducks the main issue why are there so many ellis act evictions like 60 percent c pi and the exception control to small occupied buildings those are punishing owners to go out of the rental business. this will result in fewer buildings on the market because the higher the relocation fees the more the incentive is to hold units off the market. there's only a few ellis act a year but there will be thousands of vacancies vacancies in anticipation of selling a building. you're actually going to reduce

the number of rental units i think you should look at ways to a incendiary vices owners to stay in the rental business >> thank you other speakers. >> thank you for your time and it's been a long day. and thanks for listening and i oppose the legislation. and i am from district 11 and a member of the small property owner occupation. i gathered some information and i oppose this it's some kind of bear in the big picture. i