that's based on the program costs we thought to implement the pilot. but the pilot is to gather the information and come up with a recommendation that will make for a sustainable regulatory framework to deal with the shuttles >> my other question how do he settle on the one dollar how was that selected. >> what we did we looked at the costs we identified that would be associated with this program setting it up to get the administrative processes in police radios to goorth and monitor the pilot my to monitor the enforcements and do signage and basically, all the costs adding up the costs to about one

and a half million dollars and looked at the way to allocate those to be existent with state law in terms of how you assign fees and determine that the per stop efforts method of allocation would be best to use the number of stop efforts we estimated based on the information was about one million and a half divided by one mill and a half equals one dollar per stop. >> throughout the decision there's been decision around gathering information you're studying the pilot program i'm curious to know what others information are you tdr in grashth. >> i'll ask my kraeg. >> thank you carli pain sfmta.

so we've identified 3 main questions this pilot is seeking to address and then data that that will be collected in support of answering anticipate. the first it does that pilot mrth the commuter shuttles at mining stops reduce conflict from muni. the woo to access that we'll conduct before and during pilot observations so the plan is in advance of the pilots commemorate this july we'll be conducting outcomes and our platoon is a combination of in field observations and human beings and using the fronted and rear cameras on muni buses to

collect the activity between those we'll looking at the incidents of muni's having to double park to load and unload shuttles and loading and uploading in a double park position and detailed action for muni or inability to access the curb either muni or shuttles blocking sidewalks i crosswalks or bike lanes and a vehicle can't isn't able to stop they curb and that impacts people with physical disabled and people with strollers we'll be tracking collision data. and then during the pilot we'll collect that seem kind of data we'll be tracking >> your excuse me. your collecting the before where you

actively looking at shuttle and how they subcontract with our mta bus stops? >> we'll be doing the before in may starting in insuring we're collecting the data will consistently, however, in our policy development process nelson your transportation consultant to the transportation authority did load a field data collection effort in support of and did do field data collection so we'll be drawing on the methods that they used and improving them for a more consistent approach. >> okay and do i want me to go through the other 2 the other 2 questions are what enforcement is needed given a program

framework and director reiskin mentioned part of the fee will be to recover costs for additional enforcement we want to know how much enforcement is needed if there's a pilot program written there are guidelines and exceptions where if the permit popcorn doesn't follow them there will be a revoked process to determine the compliance how many stops are they making hair permitted to make and are they using the permitted zones or going outside the network are they loading and unloading or creating details we'll be tracking citations and

other things and feedback from the muni operators as well as shuttle operators and the third question will be answering what are the actual transportation nodes and cost to accommodate counterpart shuttles in san francisco we'll be talking the administrative costs and the capital improvements and being ford informed by what improvement is needed as director reiskin mentions we used our best estimates about what the best costs would be to endorsing the program with you we want to track the costs for a longer-term solution. >> ongoing thank you. >> couple of things.

so the budget and legislation analysis we've not talked about the reports yet but they've gathered some statistics about shuttle operations the number of years is thirty years and the recreational shuttle partition n is 10 years and the number of company sponsored recreational shuttles 17 plus companies a number of shuttles vehicles operating in san francisco over one hundred and 31 there's enough strategy data to come to a way to regulate some of those existing shuttles i know by representing the hill neighborhood we've conducted our own data i wonder how it stacks through the entire shuttle program

i'm also saying that to get to the question about the other shuttles i think we're at a position you, you know, google has triggered this and golden is receiving the unfair brunt of that but shuttles have been existing for thirty years so for thirty years have we not been gathering data and paying attention and been enforcing the law that's disconcerting >> (laughter). >> caught you wake up. >> there's a lot of shuttle data but we need to have this shuttle program to have more data help me understand this. >> surely thank you. carli sfmta through the chair to

cohen there are several parts to your question. the shuttles have been active in san francisco for quite a while and the sfmta has been addressing matters but the sector when it feels samuel that precedes my time but when the shuttle base was small its great they're bringing in a lot of people to their jobs and work places and mass transit options but let's work and moor we're anytime missing the impacts by working with them and our enforcement officers do accredit and give tickets

>> can you get it data in terms of citing and enforcing. >> i'll get to that director reiskin motive give you additional information but the approach is with many types of improvement not specific to red zone because we don't have pcos parking control officers that can be everywhere they use their discretion when a violation is happening that's you causing safety concerns and or a causing on impact to metropolitan. so there's that. but because the shuttle sector has gotten so large and dealing with problems on an ad hoc basis is a ineconomist landscape

that's confusing for the members of the public and very xhufgz for muni operator. we need regulation a that's the purpose of that program. so the next question you asked there's a lot of information out there don't you have enough. and what we have what the biggest and analysis report referenced is from shuttle providers i don't want to characters them we feel like we need to be able to make informed judgment we don't know everywhere that shuttle operators stop and creating a policy if we for example, wanted to say this approach we're

permitting we're going to incomplete apply it across the city we don't have enough information to know mr. whether that's a great thing so we start off small to test the data to see how that works it's not just data collection for data collection sake. i hope that was helpful >> if i could just add carli gave a lot of strategyal information we're the only aspect of this that is subject to the boards decision right now is the sequa review. we don't many our sequa review consider the merits of the project at hand. that's not our determination to make. the sequa review is about the

accessibility of the decision and the environmental impact >> but this is one department that is here so forgive me i said we're dealing with sequa if we have an opportunity to talk about fees or policy let's talk about that. it's interesting if there had been more of a public process but i want to talk about the fee. but one $.6 million is projected to be recovered in this proposed 18 month pilot program. i want to know if all shuttle partitioned will be subject to a fee this is for google; right? ?

no. sure >> it's not just for google any shuttle operator who meets our eligibility requirements that is meeting the puc requirements is providing consultant service, etc. that wishes to use any of the metropolitan zones that would be part of this pilot network will need to apply for a permit and agree to comply with all our permit terms and be subject to the foe that's intrust shuttles and other shuttles. >> my final question is a sequa question in one of the documents that mta provide it alludes that if sequa is upheld how b will it

set a precedent to resolve some of our future problems? >> thank you supervisor cowen. >> that question would really be related to whatever determination the board were to make as to the reasons for upholding the appeal and how the board is directing us to apply the class 6 exemption in the future. so that would be my decision relative to the board direction. i can't presuppose how the board motive address that issue my you mean the board of supervisors or the mta >> the board of supervisors. >> thank you, ms. want. >> supervisor kim.

>> thank you. i guess we've been having an hour and a half questioning for mta i'll continue to ask questions i know you have your presentations yet so long as supervisor cowen as opposed up the program i'm going to see a couple of things. i think the supervisors have asked what they wanted to see it would have restricted the size of the bus a that's one of the things i've heard over and over again and how the buses are on narrow streets i honestly didn't understand what this looks like until i went to noah valley one day i saw this goifk double decker bus trying to turn a

tight corner on 24th i was stunned those buses are able to transverse our streets. the politely could have begun further you could have prohibited any stops where there are bus lanes this is what come out of the budget analyst report. i think there's a lot of things that could have begun on beyond what's brought before us and love us are unhappy i know we're not voting on the program some of us are frustrated but i thought i'd get that out there. on the cost recovery issue you know the dial report that $496,000 allocated the first 12

months of the program how did that number come about why is it furiously for us, to enforce the program to make sure they're not using another bus stops there's flexibility around cost recovery that i'm not sure that mta is limited to $1.7 million for the cost recovery we can have enforcement everywhere there are pcos ticketing folks who get on the bus for free and we can't have more improvement officers to make sure that the shuttle operators are complying that the program (clapping.) >> thank you chair kim through the president. it the costing for the pilot is bones our best guess on the

information of the cost we would occur to have the pilot. as what we initiate the pilot if he find some assumptions were not correct we'll adjust our costs according. having important pcos at more locations will cost more not bringing money to the city we can't generate money for the city but to take a reasonable stimulate of what we thought would cost us to manage the program >> why did it not mean we have pcos throughout the city to look at the program. >> this is our best estimate to manage the program. >> what would the labor cover

how many pcos and how often? so what is $496,000 cover >> the labor that's involved for improvement we asked our enforcement tomato tame what would it take to enforce the program and they give us an estimate and i admit i don't recall the numbers the enforcement officers but they're limited by the number of enforcement officers they have. we can't hover new officers for a 18 month grant >> why. >> because we're challenged to hire i believe we have a staff log i'll defer to the direct. >> i'll stop i'll say that i think you could have given more to the labor portion of the cost

recovery piece and have many more pcos officers to justify the pilot program. i think you ethics i'm questioning whether the $1.70 million is enough to regulate the program. so a couple of things a classic exemption i want to know how many climatic exemption didn't does the city go out and the perimeter of the exemptions >> we give i don't know the exact number of how many have been given over time. we do give about half a dozen a year for non-pco projects so those are, you know, very commonly supported by sfmta.

and then we issue them for boeing projects and other activities that be being now and then by the public utilities commission throughout their lens so up towards i'm going to estimate 20 per year. projectts tha quality for that exemption. it's not we do track exemptions by class within our system so it's something that is a difficult to get exactly numbers on. the perimeters of these o the exemption are defined in sequa so if it's fitting the distinction of a project in sequa doesn't result in hazardous or critical conditions relative to mapped resources

then, you know, doesn't dang substantially damage the environmental resources and explicit result in significant impacts to unusual circumstances we don't have perimeters of size or nature of the project their inclusively given to projects in san francisco so if a project qualities for one it wouldn't get it but you public, private projects are not persuade by the a public body so they wouldn't be subject to a approval by the public body so not through sequa >> are there guidelines through sequa that restrict projects based on size. >> yes. there are sequa has 33

different classes of exemptions some of them a reciprocated by size the most common we give are for class 1 which is existing facilities and changes to existing falls their those are defined by sis and new construction is defined by size. but cellular calls 6 is not designed by size >> no. >> is there at many point when i study i'm not sure this is a question for you or the city attorney. at what point is it not eligible for the class exemptions >> it would be if we looked at the possible effects even for the smallest project that is

submited for the at the level of service impacts so it's role is due to exactly what sequa says when is the circumstances surrounding where the project is happening. >> the appellant stated that for the pilots i'd mentioned often 6th street two blocks from howard and the bicycle lane motive have been approved do you agree with that. >> we didn't elevate it but i don't know if it would have quality for the class exemptions. >> so they did quality for the class of exemption. >> is there any case law that

is grand as a class 6 exemption. >> deputy city attorney yesterday there was no case law i checked this morning to see if something new had come down. >> the baseline so that's come up several times. i am going to ask about the by an implicit it's come up so the sfmta is moving forward with the pilot to gather information that understands the scope of the project so the 18 most allowing us to collect date it's not going to impact our by an because we don't believe it will impact the current environmental

companies how do we know what those are what's united states baseline how do we know that >> we obviously have a lot of, you know, a lot of statements of the problem as i understand it and then knows basic oiktsz those shelters are, in fact, existing as well as the background work insinuated by sfmta but the key thing nothing about the project that you can it would demonstrately increase the number of shuttles open the street or the locations at which the shilts are picking up there's nothing about the prong that would change at the physical nature of what is happening around shuttles

because of what mta is trying to do is say, you know, let's define what those are identify the new shared minnesota stops. now, of course, the shuttles could keep using the stop locations that are not minibus zones as they are now. this is really a awning project you can't pin any specific changes to, you know, even in a situation that's relatively fluid because the project is not proposing any physical changes >> but we can't guarantee increase not an impact we can't guarantee more shuttle buses won't appear because we're talking about legalization for sometime at the port earlier.

is there nothing to say that more shuttles won't opt into the one dollars program and including a number of the buses it used the white zones because of the ticketing >> you know that's a concern we don't have any evidence to support. the flip side of the program is that it it is imposing limits on the shuttle and that could easily serve as a disincentive to the shuttle opportunity to use the red zone legally particularly in the improvement has been as minimal as the testimony suggests. you know, there's just as much

looked like the program is an d disincentive >> so it's okay for us to be speculative too in assuming there won't be further environmental impacts for a classic exemption for a pilot program. >> sequa says you can't assume there's impacts based on speculation you need to support our conclusion so there's got to be demonstrative prove or foreseeable impacts and sequa has a say over a direct impact that's directly connected to something proposed by the project. >> so