so those are some of the options we would consider and they are things that we could do under the right set of circumstances and once we learn more. the next step we would be thrilled to be part of the discussion and w work with you and making sure we take a look at gathering the information and data and thinks what the ridership ridership is and where people are going and work with everyone on educating the overall market and looking at the impacts that we have to manage. the regional connectivity we have a different set of issues and the riders with the east bay and downtown throughout the neighborhoods. as we put together a plan take

into account how we might want to contribute additional or better resources >> several questions. right now when does the f slash e on embarcadero which does it stop running >> 1 o'clock monthly. >> when does it start in the morning? 5? depending on on subway starts the first train is 440 something and buses begin to pull out at the 4 >> so the market starts about the same time. then in terms of of the rail system in terms of not enough vehicles there are breakdown

issues. but right now the light rail system what's the hours >> approximately the last trains are within a few minutes of 1 o'clock leaving downtown and going out. >> so the last train from the downtown core will leave around 1 o'clock. >> right. >> what time do she start in the morning. >> the first revenue train is 440 and there is our system requires because of the automateic trains we'll have them into go through at 440 and dropping off on open stations. >> in the we understand in the morning what time does the light rail start. >> 8:00 a.m. that's the longest

shut down window and 6 on saturday. >> has minnesota ever considered expanding light rail hours? i mean even if only on friday or saturday night if not all night instead of 1 o'clock maybe 2 or 230 so sync up a little bit better when the bars close >> i can't say for certain if there's been an analysis done. i suspecttolysis there has but it has to be mitigated. we have scheduled in the next couple of years in addition to the maintenance we have the

automatic transcribe system as well as the track and track bed and replacement of overhead wire on the twin peaks tunnel. those are two examples and again with the system that has the limitations, if you will, from a flexibility and not a lot of turnovers or turn backs or cross offers that would allow us to run up one-track and not the other but in my time there's been a comprehensive look at it >> that might be good we have capital projects that can impact things but it would be worth you have it in the next steps in

terms of looking at the costs there's costs is a to all i have this but that will be good to get some analysis from muni what the possibilities are both on the bus side and on the rail side. >> yeah. for purposes of the hearing we focused on the surface but we could put together a white paper on the issues and cost. >> that would be great. in terms of i know there are muni has a lot of challenges sometimes unavailability of vehicles and they're going through a process to replace the buses for the next generation of light rail vehicles your agency doesn't have unify overall and many is of the reliability you issues but it will take time to

get to the end of the process. in terms of the night time service and particularly the l service with sometimes shortages that the agency has with vehicles and not having enough operators does that impact overnight service in the way we sometimes see it effecting daytime services. i know on the lower ridership lines the 37 or 52 you may have a miss run because of not having a operator but you might not notice that but when you have a bus coming every 25 or thirty minutes and one vapors because of no driver do you see that in the l search. i see the schedule that the l service runs on that way we see

longer gaps do you have the same around the shortage of operator issues >> in terms of the out service there's a couple of things that going come into play we're refining it constantly. when you have two necessary lines that have to go out and only one operator if it's during a peak period say if there's many, many lines like in you took a line like the 48 that has 11 and 20 vehicles or that has to get filed first so you have something on every line. and try to use the criteria that says the first and last trips has to be filed and you aren't having more than 3 it's unacceptable so we continue to work daily both earlier in the

morning and again mid afternoon to spread it. as far as the overnight services most of the time virtually all the over night services are filed it's the single biggest complaint we get about the night services we hear constantly if the buses are not out there they're a lifeline for people to get to work and make connections. sometimes when we look at the on time operation the night service is uneven. unlike other systems during the rush hours or midday even we would take into account that and say oh, my god we do not want to

pay 35 but we hold those buses intentionally so people make their connections. we're also focused on, on time performance overnight because we need to make sure that people we don't strand no one. you know that trumpets on time services. to give you a long answer to your short question no we wouldn't have problems overnight with either vehicles because if we were to go to some longer service plan we would have to create a new schedule that would build that into our service plan. that's the kind of thing, you know, with all our help and support and the coming of the t dp it's about adding additional service so we want to take and

build into the existing service >> i will then your honor, it over to supervisor cowen. i encourage you to have more even a small increase in the amount of vehicles out there could make a huge difference. i've had this discussion with director reiskin and you go on spring break and the ridership goes down because of the spring break so you have lower ridership so the agency cuts back on frequency. i understand the rationale for that my prospective is even if it's spring break or overnight even though there's a lower ridership those people i appreciate our acknowledge it's a lifeline.

so i don't mind during the periods you see fewer people having the service really induces people to ride. ms. cane mentioned this there's a lot of people that would ride it if they thought it was more available but even if their arrears of that they're to have to wait an how are they don't bother. you saw the photos i put up from saturday night i sent to you on saturday night. i know that that is an scheme example but having rode the subway on friday and saturday nights for many years to see the huge head ways on 9 o'clock on friday or saturday night it dissuades people from relying on

muni so putting this out with some information can help. i appreciate the data i haven't heard the 87 percent of the overnight riders were workers and they're on average low income than the system as a whole that's useful information. supervisor cowen >> thank you very much i have two quick questions related to the slide. entitled potential items for the surfaces. you presented 3 options i want to know who or which bodies is going to determine what is optimal >> i'm sorry i don't understand your question. >> you provided a package for building on options 1, 2, 3 who

is going to pick the best option. >> i understand. i think that's a product of number of things because what i've heard from the previous speakers and i think my understanding of the intent of this importing is to take a look at it and future identify where the areas are and what groups are looking for more service and building a comprehensive service plan >> let me stop you i understand the rationale i want to know in the end once you've done all you're studying who is going to vote onion those items. i'm under the impression that's the mta commission who is going to decide >> we'll make a recommendation as part of our service plan if we went to add additional service we'll ask our sfmta

board to accommodate any requests and increase in service. >> i will understood it seems like the right process is put together a working group that includes the agencies and folks in the community. and then various ideas and recommendations can go up and ultimately the transit providers whether it's bart or muni will have to make the depreciations so that seems like the right process that's my view >> i understand. what you're view is but i wanted to know if that's sfmta's view. certainly it's a more collaborative process is ideal like the one you described but i don't think that's how mta a usually whether it's fair increases or changes to roulths

we've got options here i want to know how is mta going to do that is it a collaborative approach or make a recommendation to the commissioner commission and the commissioner vote >> what we're suggesting is part of this whole hearing process and working with - because what you're saying for me is a transit recommendation there's the other parts of the mta that will want to look at parking and potential taxi options as well that need to be considered. so what correct me if i am wrong what i envision we'll take the options we've suggested and in addition evaluate what commissioner lee said what will it take to do something with the rail system and build the information that's been

collected and see what service or subset of service plans will meet the need and the first step will be to work with all of you if we get an agreement on the approach go back to our board and is as part of our service plan we'll change the mix of the service or look for funding to add additional service >> what's the timeline for - that you're going to be using as you consider those options. when will you make a decision on the option if at all >> again we've got some go ridership data as i tried to indicate what that so we need to see this is the best option

where is the additional demand what parts of the city and times are we not servicing where are people needing to go so those options may fit or tweak those options a little bit to adjust. so we want to get to, however, quickly data is collected on origin and designation you're talking weeks >> so when you were talking about in your presentation about ridership could you industry to me your overall city ridership particularly in the evening what part of the city is it coming from. >> each year. >> i think i heard you say

something about working people. >> yeah. in 2013 we did on a agency wide survey we found that overnight on a typical week night there was 54 hundred riders. and the birthing subset of the riders some 13 hundred were on the mission corridor. the second birth group were on the l car very well bus and the end june bus after the service on the l line pieces we mirrored that with buses i'm happy to provide the committee with the day that we have. part of what we can do is based on the customer survey we can give you the origin and we've

learned that 85 percent were coming and going to employment >> thank you, mr. alley. next, we have bart the bay area rapid transit districts. bart are you here? i don't see bart. oh, bart is here welcome. >> i'm jay manager of schedules and services within bart's planning division. i have our colleagues and chief engineer and our director of customer access mr. bob franklin and others community relations

department that can answer questions. in terms of bart one of the challenges that bart faces we're an aging system. the ability to provide additional service in the late night hours is extremely problematic. we are faced with replacing tracks and power systems and everything in between. i went out yesterday morning to meet with folks and we're facing big projects that are chooj us from rehabilitating the transbay two as well as incorporating a new fleet of cars. that being said i've worked late night in the operation control center that got off anothers 2:00 a.m. i was able to get on the all bus

late network. i ago with the speakers there's a network out there that a lot of people don't know about. one of our golden's is to lend the service that bart provides with the other services that are out there in order to make them more available and expand the connection activities on a regional base. i believe that is for the transit as well we have a project underdevelopment with the acting development to look at a pilot project to improve capacity and that's an ongoing project >> currently, the transbay bus service in terms of it's frequency and the extent of its service do you think that's adequate for the needs not only

for patrons but workers getting off late. >> my personal experience it's a good basic network it has a higher frequency on friday and saturday nights for the transbay. and on monday through if i it's hourly service. hourly service is certainly challenging but if it's a reliable service people can feel comfortable with it and so long as the busses show up on a reliable schedule it's something you can build our schedule around that's what i used to do. i know we see transit is here but where does that end in oakland >> the service i used was the transbay alternative to boortd i board on 14th street and it

comes across the oakland bay bridge and exists octavia and that's a connection point with the outline network. it precedes done market street and going back to the temporary bay terminal and continues and connects with other overnight services >> i mean, i know that one of the challenges from the late night services especially from san francisco to east bay it might mean especially, if you have to make a connection late night it can took a long time for someone to get home. >> i think one of the things about the existing network there's a inhibiting system. i was riding a late night muni

bus the end june and met with the 90 at the van ness and market street's. 3 buses waited for the connections and the trans bus came up and stopped at the mta headquarters and on the oakland side. the network has times transfers at the 14th street that connects with the rest of the network that provides service as far north as richmond and fremont. they have supervision out there ever evening. the times i used it personally, i was able to make the connections i needed to make. i'm a super transit yourself.

i know there are sdshz when bart stops service how do i know what the next service is about it 511 or in terms of growth for us to reach out and show the other choices. i think building a stronger network is the chiefable first phase in improving the late night activity >> i know this the the perpetual discussion on friday and saturday night i think there are comparison of having to deal with late night sort of what could be long haul bus service with a connection vs. bart the two are not really in the practical not comparable and bart is quicker and more

efficient. i think the questions you guys ran twenty-four hours service for a pilot i know you have to do a lot of track work it's an old system in terms of the infrastructure needs. but, you know, there are also ways especially, if your rhine even if sporadic train service all night i think that bart has more flexibility than muni in terms of switching over. are you saying that wouldn't be possible for bart to figure out >> it's not a matter of figuring out. right now monday through thus they have an hour of working on the tracks people see bart open

up to 4:00 a.m. i've got a chart i think this will present the information it speaks to the amount of time to do productive work on the tracks because we're a hundred and four mile system what we do we use the hour monday through thursday and preparing for the big projects on the weekend. once we've got the longer than periods of time we do the lower risk work so that in an hour we can replace a couple of ties and rewrap areas and do rail grinding but the system can open another 4:00 a.m. the next morning when we do larger projects on the weekends the risk is greater because we're

ripping up more material and we're aging we're past 40 the system is in more needs of doing bigger overnight projects. it doesn't making take one-track out of service but we have to disconnect all the systems. there's a new directive from the public utilities commission we're working to make sure we've followed very, very cell and that's general order one hundred 75 that places a lot of requirements on how and when we where we do work to make sure we're safe. we're facing bigger challenges than in the past >> i know this debate has been

going on for decades. there's a lot of constraints but when we try to image had we never built bart at all the negative impact on the bay area and, etc. it's such bart in so many ways is the heart of the bay area transportation system. you look at the middle of the night it's gone. i don't know, i'd love to find a way even if only on friday and saturday night find a way to make bart go later. it makes a big deal. i know you have a lot of constraints i'm not disputing that. >> those later nights those are the most productive and valuable nights we've got. we realize is counterpart needs

>> i'm sorry the bart life nights. >> with the seven hundred and 8 trains and the 4 hundred daily passengers without the proper maintenance we don't have bart monday through friday or at all. we want to rebuild the system to improves the viability overall and how we do maintenance and luke ways to reduce the time it build up a task. right now we know have the technology or the abandoned width to do that. we just recently completed a preliminary face of the transbay two. we're about to embark on a large project to improve the reliability and that's an 8 to 10 year project. i'm struggling to find a balance between good customer services and providing