requirement. i'm not saying that, i don't think, very well, but in in case, those are my thoughts. >> commissioner moore. >> we once had a building, i think it was in the marina somewhere. i have a vague idea about it being like a barbell building where really -- do you remember that building? i think it was on filbert with the need for additional square footage and it was the rear and front of the property, but connected the two was a transparent element for lack of a better word, a courtyard and light well and "light well" is the wrong word here. but it created a certain lightness and transparency for all people that participated in the front and rear expansion on the lot and i would suggest

that we find a way to help the applicant with all of things that he needs, with his elevator and the stair issue, et cetera, but try to really lighten up the building a little bit in the middle of the property in order to have an interior courtyard of some sort. >> commissioner antonini. >> looking at this exempt, that looks - at , sketch and perhaps i could give it to mr. ionin to put on the screen. the issues of real estate yard coverage is something that the zoning administrator is going to have to interpret, as i said before. that is pretty good, if you could push it a little further to show -- you can see the space between the two. right there. you can see there is a setback on the dr requesters that is fairly generous, look like

maybe 3' -- i can't tell -- from the property line. then you see the setback of 4' on the lower floors, 2 and 3. and then the 4th floor you see the 5' setback and see how long that light well is. i am trying to interpret this as we do every other case we get. if we had rowhouses which these are almost rowhouses and there are some separations and asked how much do we need between structures? think 3' and 4' and in some places 5' is ample light well. it's still pretty generous. so that is kind of my interpretation of it. i will defer to other commissioners, but that is my interpretation of what the project sponsor is doing what

we ask everybody else to do on all the other cases that we have been doing. so i don't know about any other changes. i would be interested in hearing what the other commissioners are interested in doing with the middle of that building, but i don't know quite how we're going to do it. but i certainly think that he should be able to keep that fourth floor. but if something has to be done to part of that, that would be up to someone else to craft an idea. >> commissioner hillis. >> maybe i could ask the project sponsor and architect on this concept that people are kicking around -- and i don't know if it's a trade-off between the front roof deck, which i don't think serves that 15' setback, doesn't serve a great purpose for anybody or even the kind of scale, i think across the street. the buildings tend to be fairly tall and some trade-off between the roof deck and more

courtyard/light well, whatever you want to call it on the 4th and possible 3rd floor in the area where you now have a light well. did you look at that as a concept? >> this is 25' wide lot. it's a very, very narrow lot to begin it and we're siting it back 4', because i wanted to be very generous and gracious and not get to this point with the dr requester and 5' on the top floor. this is -- this is a very large -- between the two buildings, this is a very large light well, 8' and 9' and anything more i'm doing away with usability of the building. >> we get it it's a large light well and typical situation. >> architect, i'm going to try to answer your specific

question and i think during the discussions it was looked at. there is san francisco design guidelines that have been applied am across the board about the 15' setback and that is what with my normally face when we start designing right away. we did discuss that at times. i wasn't involved directly in discussions. i could be absolutely off-base, but we looked at an alternative talking with miss gallagher. does that answer your question? >> it. does we take that 15' setback generally, but it's your typical marina style, two story over the garage and next person wants to build a floor above and seting it back. i think it's a little different on this street. across the street is 4 storis,

including the garages. there is not that kind of typical architectural character on this street that you see where we are always doing that 15' setback. >> i love flexibility. i willgy you a story since mr. passmore's name came up. he used to wave his arms around and say i did have one where i thought it was not in the code or needed a variance. and bob said don't worry, if it makes neighbors happy, we'll approve it. thank you. >> commissioner sugaya. >> i think for me, there is a slightly -- we're talking about two different things. seems like the light well situation is something that we do apply routinely when there are buildings next to each other and there is already a light well or setback, let's say on the neighbor's side, either side or both sides and we try to bring in the building 3-4' by x feet long.

and that is the usual, typical light well solution and what i was referring to and perhaps commissioner moore was the rear yard or open space requirement being treated differently than meeting it through a light well situation. and i think the two issues are slightly different. and the solution that i think we haven't taken a vote, so i don't know what will happen up here, but the one that we have been discussing off an on is the zoning administer's interpretation of the open space requirement and that is a little different more me than the light well situation. >> commissioner antonini. >> could i ask a question of

the architect for the project? suggestions have been made about that connector adjacent to the light well, which is probably fairly narrow if any, probably 20', it's not that narrow, because you have taken 5' away and it's a 25' lot, assuming that you don't have a setback on the other side, too. no more than 20'. so that is not too bad the. i think there was a suggestion being made about the possibility if staff would be amenable to bringing that further forward and maybe narrowing the passageway between the two? is that something? >> absolutely. i wasn't there with the review between ty and mary. we're talking directly and maybe i thought this was one phone call towards the end i thought we were almost there. i don't want to put aspirations on either side and i don't

think it will do any good, but i think that was really the heart of the issue is this area -- the area that we are talking about on the 4th floor of somehow providing more light. mayy showed you her idea of greenhouses and greenhouses are not green at all. in terms of energy uses they are too much sun load and you need air conditioning which is not a really good idea because of heat load. but i think to get flexibility to improve that in terms of getting more light and visibility to the neighbor and giving us decent size and workable rooms, absolutely, yes. >> one idea to have wayne's coating and windows on upper part of the passageway to let light come through. >> you know these small greenhouses with a sloped roof of three-feet that has glass in it and you have the privacy issue whether you are doing that, too. so it's a catch-22 to some degree. i do think there is a workable

solution in here to make this work. >> maybe you should check with him first. yes, sir? >> i would like to comment about this and a few other items that commissioner moore and sugaya have addressed. i have been at this for 18 months now. i really want to build this house. and i have already been told by the dr requester she is going to take this all the way. as commissioners moore and sugaya have issue of overlot coverage and the fact that the zoning administrator is not seeing the interpretation correctly. i am willing to cutback the rear of the existing structure as along as it's not going to be deemed a demolition. another five feet or even ten feet to make sure that we have the 25% open space requirement and we can move on with this

project. so i will give dr requester less reasons to to a round and bring us into a variety of other issues at the board of appeals. i just need to make sure this doesn't fall under the definition of a "demolition." >> so to interpret what you are saying, you would be taking five feet or a little more off of the rear of the existing cottage, to create more of a rear yard or perhaps upper floors to create a deck there. >> correct. so there will be ground, dirt. there is not going to be any building on it, but have the 25% that commission sugaya and commissioner moore's understanding of the interpretation of the design guidelines. yes. >> thank you for that suggestion. >> commissioner moore. >> i sense from just sitting here that this conversation is going a little south. for one, i don't have any idea what it means to cut out five

meet in reaction to what i think we believe is a constructive conversation around the zoning administrator to look at not only for this project, but for other projects in the city, where the problems will compound itself. i do not believe that the applicant should take offense by a discussion, which is typical between the planning commissioners to find solutions, because while i am very, very everyone empathetic into the processes, this project as far as approval go still has to fit as someone who doesn't have the personal problems that were described to

us, because they do not ultimately affect our decision. we take them into consideration because they are important to the elevator and to the important relative to space that is accessible to you in the broader sense of the word. however, the approval itself has to fit everybody else in town. and that is where we are struggling. so any reaction of cutting off the project five feet is something that i would have to go back to the zoning administrator. is that demolition that we have to consider? is this something that we should let the two people at this most who are a little bit at odds to work out each other? i am ready to approve this project, but not the way its currently in front of me and i do not have a magic answer what you do to make it acceptable. >> i want to ask the city attorney to provide some advice to the commission, but also to suggest if changes are going to be made, that we allow time for

the project sponsor to work on those changes with the neighbor. >> thank you. >> deputy city attorney marlena burn. i'm understanding that you would like some clarification about a reasonable accommodation request? >> yes, please. >> under the americans with disabilities act, if someone based on a medical condition or health condition makes a request for a reasonable accommodation, then the city does have to provide them with that reasonable accommodation. now that does not mean that any given project needs to be approved as-proposed, but the city would have to figure out what is necessary to accommodate the specific needs of the requester? so i would recommend that if the commission was inclined to not approve the project as proposed, that rather than making any specific changes to the provoke at project, to continue it so that the project

sponsor can work with staff for any accommodation needs and come back to the commission with recommendations based on that. thank you. >> commissioner sugaya. >> just to clarify, i didn't have a 25% standard in mind. it can be less. i understand that a potential way to do that is to effect the existing building because of its location, et cetera. i have no idea what that would do and whether it would trigger a demo, yet another part of the code, which we probably do not want to get into. i think it's more -- i think your architect i think understands -- i don't care if it's 25%. it can be less. it's the positioning of it. it's the level at which it's at.

i am willing to sacrifice as commissioner hillis has is he sed, the front setback if it accommodates the design better. >> sorry to interrupt, but perhaps a little more clarification, because it seems as you are discussing you are liking to see what is now a light well expanded and have the depth of it increased. the depth of from the side property line increased. is there a certain depth that you are looking to see? because right now, i think we're saying it's about 3' for the light well. is 6' or 10'? we're not looking for a decision right now on that, but

some guidance so we can work with the project architect, project sponsor and ensure that all of the needs that they have are met through the project. but also kind of address the design concerns that you have. >> commissioner antonini. >> i wanted to ask a question of mary gallagher, please in regards to what i am seeing, i'm not as concerned about the rear yard issue, but think the dr is on the impact that it may have -- your dr requester and talking about the area in the middle, where we could either put windows and leave it the same width or make it narrowor, because i don't believe we should take the 5th floor off as we work to get a solution? >> so this was -- one of the

last discussions that i had with the project sponsor, who does not want this. i will just say that. but the idea was front room, which might go further closer to the street. so sometimes you have a 10' setback instead of a 15. so he gets a larger room there in exchange for on top floor a much narrower space that becomes more a walkway than a room. right now it's a dining room with a big plate glass window looking over. so that is the 4th floor. our proposal was additional open area on the lower floors as well. mr. sanchez, i agree, our alternative doesn't comply with our own position, but that wasn't a mistake. that was a compromise in and of itself. so we started with the concept that commissioners moore and sugaya have, which is

an open area that benefits every one between the two buildings on that north property line. to try to move closer to what the project sponsor wanted, we tried to start talking about additional setbacks at perhaps higher levels, getting to the top floor, which would be the breezeway, with some sort of either angled roof or glass-glazed roof or something like that. so there are several issues. i don't think i'm helping you at all. >> thank you. i think we'll be looking at a continuance from what i am hearing to try to craft something that is agreeable to the parties involved. at least in my mind, you leave the floors as they are. you probably don't alter the lower floors very much, but you

may narrow that center section slightly. perhaps bringing the front further -- the front room further out to the street to break up for some lost space to make that a living room and the air in the back, the dining room and the breezeway would probably have to have some glass to perhaps allow light to get through there. i don't see all having all blass because i don't think that is practical. if you have some areas there where it allows a little more light, because it's a little narrower. the sun can go through that glass and that is something that i submit to project sponsor. i don't think there is any anything wrong with this project in any interpretation, but i think we're trying to reach a compromise. >> commissioner moore. >> i don't think it's easy to put what we are expecting into words. i would really put it more

into the skillful hands of poem people working on it and the direction of opening up light well and cort yard with a policeman mum of 6-8' all the way to the bottom. i hope when this project comes back there is a little more mutuality in understanding of what the difficulties of your decision are. >> commissioner antonini. >> project sponsor, did you want to reply? we'll give you an opportunity. we had mary gallagher weigh in. >> i appreciate that.

both commissioner antonini and commissioner moore, i have worked on all of these suggestions with the dr requester's representative for over a month. at the end of the day, we have no solution for this, which is why i proposed a solution of cutting back the rear of the building in order to make sure that it is compliant with all of the codes that we have. because on a 25' lot, if you are going to do a courtyard that is 6 or 10', you are left without a building. it is very, very important that the building as it is we're chopping off 4' in a good width of the building. if we have a problem with lot coverage, or insufficient rear setbacks, we can take off the real estate of the building burb it's important especially on the first and second floor as wide as it is.

>> thank you for your opinion. i would be inclined to say that certainly as we work together before this comes back, we look at both alternatives. there was the alternative of taking some off the back as project sponsor said. the other alternative of narrowing the passageway with allowing more light in. let's see if we can come up with something on those and i would move to continue. is a month adequate? >> absolutely. >> we could do sooner, if there is an opener sooner. >> commissioners you could continue it to may 22nd, your may 29th hearing is canceled. you could put it on june 5th, you have quite a few large items on that calendar already.

>> may 22nd, i would make that motion that gives you three weeks to work something out. >> two weeks. >> today is the 1st. mary, did you have a question on the continuance? >> i think it might be really helpful if the ether commissioners weighed in for some direction, because there is a division. >> yes. >> that may hamper us. >> commissioner moore. >> i would like to remind this commission that this project was never reviewed together partially because of the project was returned given that the dimensions on the drawings were not fully filled in. it was never heard and never discussed and i with either suggest that we continue the

discussion give guideline or zoning administrator's interpretation to have these people work together because there has not been any basic stand this commission took before other than this afternoon. >> so let me offer a couple of thoughts. i think where i hear agreement is some desire to look at what is labeled as a third floor. i think in the discussion it's been called the fourth floor. so look at bringing what is called the light well to widening it in change for diminishing that roof deck towards the street. and pushing the living room towards the street. i think where i have heard disagreement is whether or not that happens on whether it's on the first floor, second floor and the basement, i believe. i am of the opinion that i would satisfied if it was just widened on the third floor,

what is labeled as the third floor. but i think that i have heard disagreement on that. commissioner borden? >> i would support commission er wu's interpretation. >> >> commissioner antonini? >> i will make a motion to continue to may 22. >> before we vote on it, stilled feel there is greement from the commission and i don't want both partis to come back

on the 22nd and we end up at the same endpoint. >> we see two plans, one kind of outlining some of the things that commission moore and commissioner sugaya have suggested and one with what has been stated by other commissioners and then we can see what look better. i don't have any other solution there. >> commissioner moore. >> i don't have any particular plan or solution. i'm not here to design the building, but i would like to suggest that the building with interpretation from the zoning administrator help to address some of the common open space obligations that these projects need to fulfill? how that is done, is something that the residential design team could greatly help with. if your interpretation before was very kind of delineated based on the interpretation from a few years ago, i think you gave it some room today to look at it slightly differently. i would like to use that input

and creativity to open it up for the residential design team to give the gneiss. i guidance. i personally do not want to give specific dimensions or instructions here. >> what i noted is that the interpretation didn't specifically call for this to be at-grade for the open spaces to be at-grade. had that been the case, then there would be have been a larger requirement for it to be a courtyard. and it would have -- it would not probably not be possible with the size of this project to have a courtyard there that would meet the requirements under 135 for open space. but what i am hearing it's the commission's desire and irregardless of my decision about whether or not this complis with the rear yard compliant, because i do believe it complies the commission can

be more restrictive of interpretation. the amount that the building is setback from the side property line the commission would like to see that increased at least at the third level and perhaps at other level as well, not going to a greater extent like 10', but around the line of 6-8'. so they could -- there is the possibility of moving that third floor closer to the front of the property typically in rh2 districts you can't do that because of the height limit at the front of the property, but given that the topography is so steep, there may be the ability to move that further forward. it would require additional residential design review and to work with the sponsor. if it's just the 3rd floor, that is the living room that would be most directly impact

and moved tot front, i think they would still maintain a usable living room. the overall size of the building might actually increase. but that would just be the impact of the decision. >> okay. please call the question. >> commissioners there is say meigs and second to continue the matter to may 22nd on that motion, commissioner antiin. >> aye. >> commissioner borden? >> '? >> instructor: a. commissioner hillis? >> aye. >> commissioner moore? >> aye. >> commissioner sugaya? >> aye. >> commission president wu? >> aye. >> so moved, commissioners that motion passes unanimously 6-0. >> do we need to keep this material? >> i would imagine you are going to be receiving revised plans. >> >> okay. commissioners, that will place you on your last agendized item, no. 17, for